keeping it straight

Jodyy said:

Michelle,


I find myself wondering the same. There HAD to be noise..there is just no way all of the events as Darlie described happened without there being noise. Even the hardest of sleepers (especially a parent) would be awoken by a child hurting/dying. What is your thoughts on Darlies injuries?

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michelle said:

I agree with the noise part. I also think her wounds look bad. But, I wonder where are her defense wounds? I think I remember her saying she "woke up to the attacker"? I can't remember?? It is just too fishy, the whole thing. It can go both ways with me. I am on the fence. I really need to go read the transcripts, all of them! It is just so many!! I think she looks like she was beat, but I cant help but wonder where are the knife wounds on her hands. I know one thing, my son would scream bloody murder if he was being stabbed and I would hear and fight till the death. 2 boys being stabbed, I just dont get it.:waitasec:

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SadieMae said:

I agree Darlie had some serious "looking" wounds, but those weren't made by a man that just killed two kids. Those boys weren't a threat to an intruder, Darlie and Darin would have been. Her kids were being repeatedly stabbed while she was "asleep" in the same room, and they didn't make one sound?? I'm a sound sleeper, but I still hear when one of my boys gets up for the bathroom at night, even though I don't hear the traffic outside my bedroom window when I'm sleeping.
The only unanswered question I have in this case is WHY?

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Jodyy said:

SadieMae,
First off, thank you so much for your reply and thoughts. I share many of your thoughts. I have spent the last 6 months studying "typical" profiles of a vast array of perps. The one resounding conclusion that kept coming to my mind is that "typical" is constantly redefining itself. It seems the more the complex the case is the more need there is to let go of what is considered to be the "typical" situation, personality, and scene. From a forensic standpoint, Locard's principle of exchange makes my opinion of anyone other than Darlie or/and having a hand in this nearly impossible. As a mother I could not agree with you more, (I cringe at even thinking) there would be NO WAY that my entire neighborhood would not be aware that something terrible had happened. Not to mention I would be carrying my babies searching for help...do ANYTHING I could do to save them. The 911 call for me would have been just long enough to beg for help and direction of how to perform CPR if I didn't know how...I truly just can not make any normalcy out of Darlie's actions. Again, that brings me back to trying to be careful in not comparing her actions as WRONG just because they are on the opposite side of the spectrum as mine...well, probably of the majority. When watching the silly string situation I was trying my hardest to tell myself that it is not up to me to judge the appropriate way for a person to grieve. I am aware that some people can not deal with pain and loss and react strangely or even uncaring...this in itself should not have a lot of weight on determining guilt. Back to my main point, I just think if there was an intruder, there would be UNMISTAKEABLE proof. My biggest obstacle in pulling this paper together is trying to present the facts, minus the opinions on all sides. I do not disagree with the defense team believing that investigators felt Darlie was involved within the first 20 minutes. It would be very difficult to not make this assumption given her actions and the overall scene. I guess for whatever reason I want to believe that it is not possible for a mother to look in her children’s eyes while stabbing them to death. In the past year it felt I had more reasons to doubt her guilt but it seems it is getting harder to justify those reasons.

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michelle said:

I agree, I wonder why as well. I mean what is the motive? Was it that she was depressed and thought that getting rid of the boys would help her? She still had the baby left. I just dont get it. Could darin had done it? I can't even think of why he would, it just makes no sense. Its a very senseless murder. All murders are senseless to me but this one, it just really baffles me. I can say how I would act and I would have called 911 threw the phone down and been with my babies, she stayed on the phone talking. I dont get that. I also dont get how there was no noise, I am telling you those kids had to of been yelling. Poor things, I hate to think about it.

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enigma said:

The forensic evidence lies in the hands of Libby Johnson (you may want to do a search on her) and should be presented whenever a hearing date is set. The print in blood on the utility room door from what I understand has never been tested either. As for knowing there was no intruder within 30 minutes.....if she is guilty or not, I don't believe a conclusion should be done at that time......examine the evidence and let it lead you, not find a destination and find the quickest route there. JMHO.
Is Darlie guilty??? I don't know :twocents:

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Jodyy said:

I am a new member to this site although I have long enjoyed reading the informative posts. I have been working on the Routier case for the last year as a case study for my Master's in Forensic Science. I have presented on this case 2 times and will have 2 final presentations that will start to address the physical evidence, crime scene, and conflicting issues and ultimately I will be asked to assume a resolution based on the facts. All of you in this forum are probably aware of the MANY contrasting opinion, timelines, and "facts" that this case presents. It is difficult for me to bring all of the information together because there seems to be so many different versions. After a year, (I realize the majority on this site have many more) I still find myself going back and forth on determining guilt. There are times that I am incredibly certain that Darlie has got to be guilty, yet, within weeks I end up doubting my certainty. I am sure it is the mother in me that would like to believe that it just could not be possible. I am attempting to finalize my paper outlining the physical evidence, processing results, and admissibility issues. Needless to say, I feel my paper is all over the place. I have a surplus of information but the majority is biased in direction and opinion. I am interested in any advice, thought, or suggestion that any of you might be inclined to provide. I find you all to be incredibly informed and welcome any and all additional thoughts that may help me pull this case together

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Jodyy said:

Gozgals, SadieMae, Cami, Enigma...ect..

Again, thanks for your thoughts. The defensive wounds, or lack of, are a big factor in my opinion of her guilt. It amazes me that there are so many sites that can take all of the evidence and justify it all on Darlie's behalf. It is difficult to write this paper because we are only asked to discuss the issues, processing, admissibility, documentation..ect...with the "physical evidence" it is difficult to leave out all of the other information that I feel is defeating to her innocence. For the "physical evidence" I have included:



1. blood- where it was, where it was not, who's it was, who's it was not, ect....how it was analyzed and the use of luminol.



2. The butcher knife..the fact that Darlie made clear so early on that she had touched the knife, the processing revealing not all of the victim' blood was on the knife



3. The bread knife- the fiber analysis that was said to match the screen



4. the screen at what was believed to be the point of entry and exit. The processing (early) that determined that the screen had been cut from the inside..the undisturbed window and mulch underneath..again, lack of blood trailing from the house.



5. The bloody sock found 75 yards from the house, the analysis done, the lack of testing on the "fiber/hair)



6. The issues with the photos- I can not find verifiable information on this but have read on different sites that there was a discrepancy on what the defense and prosecution had as far as photos and that the jury were not shown the photos of Darlie's injuries.



7. The discrepancies between Darlie's wounds and those of the boys..



8. The purse and jewelry lying on the counter



9. Blood underneath turned over objects..



10. The handling of Darlie's bloody nightshirt and the claim that it was collected wet and contaminated by other items



I know there is so much more but this is what I am writing about so far...My paper is due Sat. and I tell you, the most difficult aspect is not including information that my instructor is not asking for in "this" paper. The final paper is next semester where we will be asked to use our information that we presented/ wrote in the last 4 to draw a conclusion, ultimately solving the case based on what we have gathered. If I include info that is not asked for in my paper there is a substantial penalty. For example I am not going to include her journal, or the silly string....can anyone think of any major physical evidence that I am missing?

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michelle said:

Hi Jodyy,
It may be insignificant but I often wondered if darlie herself caused her own wounds, would she have been able to cut herself so hard or deep to get her necklace in her skin. I watched a show where they were talking about how deep it went into her neck saying there is no way she could have done that herself. I dont know, it may be possible with adrenaline running after butchering two babies. I also wonder about that sock. How did it get there? Too many questions, it will keep me up all night, lol....

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Jodyy said:

Michelle,

Thank you. I am going to compare her wounds with the "fatal" wounds of the boys. Her wounds are physical testing and I will discuss the duration and stages of bruising. I am finding this a little more difficult than the other 2 papers... I'm running out of time..:loser:

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