Karr/John's reaction

I think what bothers me more than anything, and keeps me from being able to believe that the Ramsey's are innocent, is the lack of anger and need for justice. Most families in this type of situation are beyond eager to find the perp... I cannot fathom a father being so calm knowing that there was a murderer out there, one that took the life of his precious baby girl. Even when Karr (was that his name) confessed, he was so calm and nonchalant about it.
Right from the beginning the Ramsey's were more concerned about forgiving the perp than finding him and bringing him to justice.
We are a good Christian family, we believe in forgiveness. We also believe in an eye for an eye and protecting our children and any others who may still be in danger by getting sicko's off the street.

armywife210 said:

I think what bothers me more than anything, and keeps me from being able to believe that the Ramsey's are innocent, is the lack of anger and need for justice. Most families in this type of situation are beyond eager to find the perp... I cannot fathom a father being so calm knowing that there was a murderer out there, one that took the life of his precious baby girl. Even when Karr (was that his name) confessed, he was so calm and nonchalant about it.
Right from the beginning the Ramsey's were more concerned about forgiving the perp than finding him and bringing him to justice.
We are a good Christian family, we believe in forgiveness. We also believe in an eye for an eye and protecting our children and any others who may still be in danger by getting sicko's off the street.

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First of all ARMYwife...I would like to tell you to thank your husband for serving our country, and keeping us all free.

Second of all...I completely agree with you. There is NO WAY that a parent would be so nonchalant about the "killer" of their daughter confession. They were so forgiving, because they KNEW that Karr was innocent. That's why John said not to "rush to judge" him (Karr).

Yeah...at first, JR says that he has searching for the killer is his "sole mission for the rest of his life"...then 10 years later, he casually mentions on LKL that "it's okay with him if the killer is never caught."

What???

It's a damn good thing for him that this killer has never struck anywhere else in the same fashion ever again.

Nuisanceposter said:

Yeah...at first, JR says that he has searching for the killer is his "sole mission for the rest of his life"...then 10 years later, he casually mentions on LKL that "it's okay with him if the killer is never caught."

What???

It's a damn good thing for him that this killer has never struck anywhere else in the same fashion ever again.

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NP, did he really say it is okay with him if the killer is never caught???????

Nuisanceposter said:

Yeah...at first, JR says that he has searching for the killer is his "sole mission for the rest of his life"...then 10 years later, he casually mentions on LKL that "it's okay with him if the killer is never caught."

What???

It's a damn good thing for him that this killer has never struck anywhere else in the same fashion ever again.

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Yep, his "sole mission for the rest of his life"...was the same as OJ Simpson's mission. Funny thing is...they never did any searching at all. OJ was out on the golf course the next day...and John was arranging a "remaining family" trip to Atlanta, just hours after JB's body was found. Yep..he searched REAL LONG AND HARD, didn't he?

Solace said:

NP, did he really say it is okay with him if the killer is never caught???????

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Yep, I heard it. Because he FORGIVES the killer anyway. So, if the killer is forgiven, then John doesn't care if he is caught...one way or the other.

Ames said:

Yep, I heard it. Because he FORGIVES the killer anyway. So, if the killer is forgiven, then John doesn't care if he is caught...one way or the other.

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That's exactly what he said....can you imagine having that kind of opinion about the MONSTER you claim broke into your house and attacked your defenseless baby girl, bludgeoning her head in and exposing her bottom to penetration, before strangling her to death?

Forgive, maybe....say it's okay if he's never caught?...NEVER.

If nothing else, there are other children who are in danger every second of every day befcause this monster has never been caught - would it be okay with JR is another 6 year old girl is attacked the same as his daughter was? Will he just forgive that monster, and lick his lips and smile when her parents ask him why he doesn't seem to care that this monster attacked his child first, and WHY didn't you spend these past ten years tracking him down rather than hide from police?

Nuisanceposter said:

That's exactly what he said....can you imagine having that kind of opinion about the MONSTER you claim broke into your house and attacked your defenseless baby girl, bludgeoning her head in and exposing her bottom to penetration, before strangling her to death?

Forgive, maybe....say it's okay if he's never caught?...NEVER.

If nothing else, there are other children who are in danger every second of every day befcause this monster has never been caught - would it be okay with JR is another 6 year old girl is attacked the same as his daughter was? Will he just forgive that monster, and lick his lips and smile when her parents ask him why he doesn't seem to care that this monster attacked his child first, and WHY didn't you spend these past ten years tracking him down rather than hide from police?

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Yes, my mouth dropped to the floor when I heard him say that. I was like..."WHAT?" I had to ask my daughter if I had heard him right....I just couldn't believe my ears.

Nuisanceposter said:

That's exactly what he said....can you imagine having that kind of opinion about the MONSTER you claim broke into your house and attacked your defenseless baby girl, bludgeoning her head in and exposing her bottom to penetration, before strangling her to death?

Forgive, maybe....say it's okay if he's never caught?...NEVER.

If nothing else, there are other children who are in danger every second of every day befcause this monster has never been caught - would it be okay with JR is another 6 year old girl is attacked the same as his daughter was? Will he just forgive that monster, and lick his lips and smile when her parents ask him why he doesn't seem to care that this monster attacked his child first, and WHY didn't you spend these past ten years tracking him down rather than hide from police?

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Well he is partially telling the truth - he forgives Patsy. I truly believe that is why he is acting this way also. He knows there is no one out there - Patsy is gone, she is dead, and he forgives her.

Solace said:

Well he is partially telling the truth - he forgives Patsy. I truly believe that is why he is acting this way also. He knows there is no one out there - Patsy is gone, she is dead, and he forgives her.

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EXACTLY!!! That's why it is so easy for him to forgive.

Solace said:

NP, did he really say it is okay with him if the killer is never caught???????

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yes he did

coloradokares said:

yes he did

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I know...hard to believe...but true.

Let's suppose for a moment that an intruder DID kill JBR. JR has had to live for over 10 years with no knowledge of the killer. He's had to think about the murder probably every hour for 10 years and the knowledge that the murderer will probably never be found. Surely you'd have to reach a point of peace and an acceptance that the killer has got away with it. It's physically and mentally impossible maintain a vengeful attitude for such a large amount of time, especially when you're a Christian who is SUPPOSED to believe in peace and forgiveness.

I really don't think John's resignation is indicative of his guilt - it's more a survival mechanism (assuming he didn't do it, of course!).

Omega said:

Let's suppose for a moment that an intruder DID kill JBR. JR has had to live for over 10 years with no knowledge of the killer. He's had to think about the murder probably every hour for 10 years and the knowledge that the murderer will probably never be found. Surely you'd have to reach a point of peace and an acceptance that the killer has got away with it. It's physically and mentally impossible maintain a vengeful attitude for such a large amount of time, especially when you're a Christian who is SUPPOSED to believe in peace and forgiveness.

I really don't think John's resignation is indicative of his guilt - it's more a survival mechanism (assuming he didn't do it, of course!).

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I see where you are coming from. BUT...he says "not to rush to judge" Karr. Now remember....JMK is the one that CONFESSED to killing JB. So, why would John doubt his confession? We all know that Karr didn't do it, of course. But, at the time....of that interview....Karr had CONFESSED. So, why would John say "not to rush to judge" him?? The man killed his daughter!! And confessed!! You bet your sweet patootie that if that had of been me....I sure would have rushed to judge. Because, I would have no reason to doubt the man's confession. Why would someone confess to a murder that they did NOT commit. So naturally, you would rush to judge someone like that. I would say...THIS man did it...he killed my child. Throw his sorry butt in jail, before I get my hands on him and rip his head off.

Ames said:

I see where you are coming from. BUT...he says "not to rush to judge" Karr. Now remember....JMK is the one that CONFESSED to killing JB. So, why would John doubt his confession? We all know that Karr didn't do it, of course. But, at the time....of that interview....Karr had CONFESSED. So, why would John say "not to rush to judge" him?? The man killed his daughter!! And confessed!! You bet your sweet patootie that if that had of been me....I sure would have rushed to judge. Because, I would have no reason to doubt the man's confession. Why would someone confess to a murder that they did NOT commit. So naturally, you would rush to judge someone like that. I would say...THIS man did it...he killed my child. Throw his sorry butt in jail, before I get my hands on him and rip his head off.

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Yeah good point. I was TOTALLY excited when I first read about JMK. I was like "OMG THIS IS SO EXCITING, I'VE BEEN WAITING SO LONG TO FIND OUT WHO DID IT!!!" and I'm just some random who has nothing to do with it. You'd think that John would have at least been curious about it.

It would be interesting to find out the steps John took to inquire about the possible suspect. Did he ring the police constantly to find out updates? Did he ask lots of questions about JMK? Maybe he'd already found out a lot of information about him and realised that he probably didn't do it (just like most of us did when the story first came to light). JMK was, after all, Michael Tracey's new "pet suspect" and since none of the other suspects had actually done it, maybe John was all like "here we go again...".

Omega said:

Yeah good point. I was TOTALLY excited when I first read about JMK. I was like "OMG THIS IS SO EXCITING, I'VE BEEN WAITING SO LONG TO FIND OUT WHO DID IT!!!" and I'm just some random who has nothing to do with it. You'd think that John would have at least been curious about it.

It would be interesting to find out the steps John took to inquire about the possible suspect. Did he ring the police constantly to find out updates? Did he ask lots of questions about JMK? Maybe he'd already found out a lot of information about him and realised that he probably didn't do it (just like most of us did when the story first came to light). JMK was, after all, Michael Tracey's new "pet suspect" and since none of the other suspects had actually done it, maybe John was all like "here we go again...".

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Last paragraph....excellent point. Maybe John knew something that the rest of us didn't, at that time. That still doesn't explain though...how he could say that he didn't care if the killer was caught or not. That is just too weird. How could he NOT care?? I know that he had already "forgiven" the killer....but, to not care? That's absurd.

Ames, thank you so much for your appreciation of my husbands service. He is definately an Officer and a Gentleman. We love this country and all that it stands for.
My point is that even if John is completely at peace with what happened to his baby girl, shouldn't he still (especially right after the murder, while the perp is out preying on other children) be offering every little peace of information that he possibly could to help find the perp before someone else had to suffer through the loss of their precious child too? I would be riding LE like a bad wedgie! I could care less if they were looking at me under a microscope. If you are standing right in front of them totally exposed, they wont have to look so hard or spend so much time and resources doing it. THEN they can move outside the inner circle and look elsewhere.
Even the most forgiving man in the world would, at the very least, want to stop this crazed maniac from harming another innocent child.
My husband and I are devout Christians. My husband has an amazing amount of integrity and morals. But I CANNOT FATHOM the wrath that would be unleashed if anyone ever hurt our little girls like this. I don't think he would sleep until he found the person responsible. Atleast not for the first year. After that it may dull a little, but he would never stop searching, trying to figure it out. He would spend countless hours researching online past and current cases that could be related... I just can't fathom a parent not caring.... and for both of them to say right away after the murder that they pray for forgiveness.... not for the killer to be caught and stopped from hurting other children..... but forgiveness.

Omega said:

Yeah good point. I was TOTALLY excited when I first read about JMK. I was like "OMG THIS IS SO EXCITING, I'VE BEEN WAITING SO LONG TO FIND OUT WHO DID IT!!!" and I'm just some random who has nothing to do with it. You'd think that John would have at least been curious about it.

It would be interesting to find out the steps John took to inquire about the possible suspect. Did he ring the police constantly to find out updates? Did he ask lots of questions about JMK? Maybe he'd already found out a lot of information about him and realised that he probably didn't do it (just like most of us did when the story first came to light). JMK was, after all, Michael Tracey's new "pet suspect" and since none of the other suspects had actually done it, maybe John was all like "here we go again...".

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I think JR was in on the whole thing,and approved it.Tracey wouldn't have done it without him knowing what was going on,IMO.For some reason,this happened after Patsy's death (I don't think it would have happened b/f she died..IOW-yes,I think it was planned),my guess is to try to get ppl to think she and JR didn't do it..ie -draw attention to the IDI theory,once again.Which,IMO,it backfired.Now we have more ppl looking into the case and understanding there was no intruder.
Nonetheless,I'd still like to see someone write a book on the whole Karr fiasco,to get all the nonsense about it all more public.

Patsy died in June, Karr hit the headlines in August, and JR was on LKL for the 10th anniversary in December. This board lit up like the Fourth of July when the Karr scandal hit the media. There's no way I don't believe some of that was orchestrated (starting with Patsy's funeral), meant to perpetuate the intruder theory to the masses who haven't delved into the case farther than the RST rhetoric offered up in regular intervals through the latter part of the year.

Nuisanceposter said:

Patsy died in June, Karr hit the headlines in August, and JR was on LKL for the 10th anniversary in December. This board lit up like the Fourth of July when the Karr scandal hit the media. There's no way I don't believe some of that was orchestrated (starting with Patsy's funeral), meant to perpetuate the intruder theory to the masses who haven't delved into the case farther than the RST rhetoric offered up in regular intervals through the latter part of the year.

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Absolutely NP, absolutely; I can see Tracey and Wood and Ramsey all sitting around discussing the what they would do.