Patsy Answers Questions About Burke

John and Patsy Ramsey were separately interviewed for three days on June 23, 24, and 25, 1998 -- and Burke Ramsey had been interviewed for three days one week earlier. Burke's interview is not available, but here's excerpts from some of Patsy's responses to questions asked by Tom Haney about Burke:


TH: "What have you told Burke about the murder?"

PR: "To date?"

TH: "To date."

PR: "Well, just that we are going to try to find out who did this to JonBenet. I haven't told him anything about how she was murdered or the details like that."

TH: "What details would he know or had you talked with him about?"

PR: "To be quite honest, we really haven't talked to him much about it. It's too hard, you know, it's hard to talk about."

TH: "Has he volunteered information?"

PR: "No."

TH: "Has he had questions?"

PR: "No."

TH: "Never 'what's going to happen, who did it'?"

PR: "No."

TH: "Did he ever mention getting up at any time during the night?"

PR: "No."

TH: "So he slept through until -- I believe it was John that ultimately got him up to take to the Fernies?"

PR: "Yes, to my knowledge."

(At that point the Ramseys had not been informed they had Burke's voice on the enhanced 911 tape. The question was formed to lock in Patsy's lie about Burke being in bed asleep during the 911 call.)

TH: "How about with the moving and all of that, has that caused some problems for him, change of schools?"

PR: "Yeah. And I have been in touch with the counselors and the teachers and everybody, alert to this. And they said that -- they are remarkably surprised at how well he is doing. He just makes friends and gets good grades."

TH: "So his adjustment's been pretty -- "

PR: "Been pretty good."

TH: "You mentioned I think when I asked you yesterday, had you seen an interview from last week with Burke. You said no?"

PR: "No."

TH: "There were like three days, and the first two days were pretty basic questions, but on the third day there were questions where the discussion was around JonBenet and death. And I am no psychologist, psychiatrist, but immediately noticed a change in Burke and his demeanor. He's curled up in his chair something like this, not sitting like this, but in a chair like this, and he's half in a fetal position and it seems to be a real struggle, a real difficult time. I am wondering if you noticed anything similar, any changes?"

PR: "Well, I may have -- I have had him in therapy just for this reason."

TH: "Does it seem like he knows more than he is saying, and obviously he's not saying much?"

PR: "Right."

TH: "Like he's keeping something in?"

PR: "As far as something about who did it, I don't think he knows. I mean, he would say."

TH: "Is that something that you have asked the doctor to explore?"

PR: "I don't know if I have directly asked him that."

JMO

BlueCrab said:

John and Patsy Ramsey were separately interviewed for three days on June 23, 24, and 25, 1998 -- and Burke Ramsey had been interviewed for three days one week earlier. Burke's interview is not available, but here's excerpts from some of Patsy's responses to questions asked by Tom Haney about Burke:


TH: "What have you told Burke about the murder?"

PR: "To date?"

TH: "To date."

PR: "Well, just that we are going to try to find out who did this to JonBenet. I haven't told him anything about how she was murdered or the details like that."

TH: "What details would he know or had you talked with him about?"

PR: "To be quite honest, we really haven't talked to him much about it. It's too hard, you know, it's hard to talk about."

TH: "Has he volunteered information?"

PR: "No."

TH: "Has he had questions?"

PR: "No."

TH: "Never 'what's going to happen, who did it'?"

PR: "No."

TH: "Did he ever mention getting up at any time during the night?"

PR: "No."

TH: "So he slept through until -- I believe it was John that ultimately got him up to take to the Fernies?"

PR: "Yes, to my knowledge."

(At that point the Ramseys had not been informed they had Burke's voice on the enhanced 911 tape. The question was formed to lock in Patsy's lie about Burke being in bed asleep during the 911 call.)

TH: "How about with the moving and all of that, has that caused some problems for him, change of schools?"

PR: "Yeah. And I have been in touch with the counselors and the teachers and everybody, alert to this. And they said that -- they are remarkably surprised at how well he is doing. He just makes friends and gets good grades."

TH: "So his adjustment's been pretty -- "

PR: "Been pretty good."

TH: "You mentioned I think when I asked you yesterday, had you seen an interview from last week with Burke. You said no?"

PR: "No."

TH: "There were like three days, and the first two days were pretty basic questions, but on the third day there were questions where the discussion was around JonBenet and death. And I am no psychologist, psychiatrist, but immediately noticed a change in Burke and his demeanor. He's curled up in his chair something like this, not sitting like this, but in a chair like this, and he's half in a fetal position and it seems to be a real struggle, a real difficult time. I am wondering if you noticed anything similar, any changes?"

PR: "Well, I may have -- I have had him in therapy just for this reason."

TH: "Does it seem like he knows more than he is saying, and obviously he's not saying much?"

PR: "Right."

TH: "Like he's keeping something in?"

PR: "As far as something about who did it, I don't think he knows. I mean, he would say."

TH: "Is that something that you have asked the doctor to explore?"

PR: "I don't know if I have directly asked him that."

JMO

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"Body Language" is everything IMHO...The R's should be "very very afraid"!
TH: "There were like three days, and the first two days were pretty basic questions, but on the third day there were questions where the discussion was around JonBenet and death. And I am no psychologist, psychiatrist, but immediately noticed a change in Burke and his demeanor. He's curled up in his chair something like this, not sitting like this, but in a chair like this, and he's half in a fetal position and it seems to be a real struggle, a real difficult time. I am wondering if you noticed anything similar, any changes?"

PR: "Well, I may have -- I have had him in therapy just for this reason."

TH: "Does it seem like he knows more than he is saying, and obviously he's not saying much?"

PR: "Right."

TH: "Like he's keeping something in?"

PR: "As far as something about who did it, I don't think he knows. I mean, he would say."

TH: "Is that something that you have asked the doctor to explore?"

P.S. See/read Dr. Andrew Hodges "WHO WILL SPEAK FOR JONBENET" for indepth info regarding Burke ... also the four(4) pictures he drew(drawn in Church?)?....FWIW FYI if you dare/care? :innocent:

BlueCrab, thanks for posting the interview excerpt. I don't recall having ever read the transcript. It's too bad Burke's strange behavior during the last interview was thought to be from his being merely a possible witness to her death.

Here are a couple of articles that I think may relate to your theory that LE covered up the fact that Burke was involved in JB's death. The articles are about a gang rape of an eight-year-old girl by boys ranging in age from 9 (the girl's brother) to 13. The incident took place in Minnesota, which apparently has the same statute as Colorado regarding charging kids under 10. What I found interesting is that even though the younger boys couldn't be charged, the article came right out with the information that four of the boys involved in the gang rape were younger than 10, including the girl's brother.

http://www.dodgeglobe.com/stories/092299/nat_boy.shtml

9-year-old boy admits leading gang rape of 8-year-old sister

ST. PAUL, Minn. (AP) -- A 9-year-old boy has admitted to instigating and participating in the gang rape of his 8-year-old sister, police said Tuesday.

The boy persuaded his sister to enter an abandoned house and ''to some degree directed the activities of the others,'' the St. Paul Police Department said.

Seven boys -- ages 6 to 13 -- are suspected in the attack. Police questioned three Monday at an elementary school and the other four Tuesday.

The victim and her attackers were ''playmates,'' police said.

Police said four of the boys raped the girl, including her brother.

''It's a bad situation,'' police spokesman Michael Jordan said. ''It's a terrible impact certainly on this little girl and possibly some of the boys.''

No arrests have been made. A photo lineup was planned for Wednesday for the victim to identify her attackers.

The attack occurred on Sept. 7 or 8, but wasn't reported to police until last week by the victim's mother.

Originally, the girl had told police that one of her brothers heard her cries and tried to help, but at least two of the suspects stopped him. That brother then left to get an older brother, who was able to rescue her, she told police.

After questioning seven boys who were in the vacant house at the time of the attack, police determined that her brother had been involved and had told her not to tell her mother what happened.
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Followup article:

10-19-99

11-year-old boy pleads guilty to gang rape


ST. PAUL, Minn. (AP) : An 11-year-old boy has pleaded guilty to participating in the gang rape of an 8-year-old girl in an abandoned house.

The boy pleaded guilty Monday in juvenile court to second-degree criminal sexual conduct. He could be sent to a juvenile institution until he turns 19.

Two other boys, ages 10 and 13, have also been charged in the gang rape. They are awaiting competency hearings next month.

Authorities say seven boys were involved in the September attack. Four of them are younger than 10, including the girl's 9-year-old brother, who is accused of luring the girl into the house, raping her and encouraging the others to participate.
~~~~

IMO

Good God, Ivy, what a story.

So sad.

Ivy, thanks for your post about the children. Your post helps to remind folks that in the real world children do indeed commit these kinds of things against other children.

I think Burke is involved in the killing of JonBenet, although he may not have been the actual killer. Burke's gut wrenching behavior when the tough questions were asked during the third day of the interview, IMO, indicates he may be painfully covering for the real killer -- whom he knows very well and is steadfastly loyal to.

JMO

Even if Burke doesn't know anything, he's obviously and normally upset when the questioning turns to JB and her death. It would be more odd if he didn't change body language then.

Patsy downplaying that is more troublesome than Burke's change of physical demeanor.

Texana said:

Even if Burke doesn't know anything, he's obviously and normally upset when the questioning turns to JB and her death. It would be more odd if he didn't change body language then.

Patsy downplaying that is more troublesome than Burke's change of physical demeanor.

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Texana,

I don't quite agree with your diagnosis of Burke's half-fetal position body language when the tough questions were asked. I would look at the obvious pain of answering these kinds of questions as an indication of trying not to let some of the truth slip out.

JMO

Possibly. I'm not saying it's not. It's a very defensive posture, isn't it?

But I also find it interesting the way Patsy handles Burke's feelings. If Burke wasn't the most articulate boy (and a lot of boys aren't very verbal with their feelings) in talking about JB's death--I don't think Patsy helped the situation much.

Even if Burke wasn't involved in any way and knows nothing--there still has to be some incredible fear and guilt (why my little sister and not me) going on with him--

Which seems to be completely ignored by Patsy.

From the Ramseys recounting of the way the events unfolded the morning of the 26th until the present - nothing has changed in the way they talk about interacting (or lack thereof) with Burke.
I believe it is a way to distance Burke's name from the entire topic of the death and staging of the crime scene of his sister.
The morning of the 26th they didn't even wake him up they claim to ask if:
1. HE was OK
2. If he had seen or heard ANYTHING during the night

Then they ship him off to an unsecure location the day that day. Away from their watchful eye and safe from the brutal "kidnappers" who say they are watching the Ramseys every move. At THIS POINT - they should have believed that note - if they are telling the truth. But they ignored it.

Then when they "discover" JonBenet DEAD in their house - do they rush to get Burke safely back in their arms and their care and away from danger?
NO! They traipse off to a "friends" house for hours before they bother to
collect Burke. Leaving him vulnerable to not only this "foreign faction" who just murdered his sister - but to Burke HEARING that news from anyone but his parents.

Then when they finally DO reunite with Burke and Patsy tells him that JonBenet is dead and in heaven, she says he simply nods his head and RUNS OFF TO PLAY! No questions of why? how? will they get me too? I'm scared!
Where is she? what happens now? Unbelievable. And this is in the Ramseys OWN WORDS.

Then in the subsequent months and years the Ramsey still say they really do not and did not ever discuss the death of JonBenet with Burke.
And - that they 'worry' about Burke when he is "40" and how this whole thing might affect him in the future. Duh. That tends to happen when you shove things under the rug that are unpleasant to deal with!!

The manner in which the Ramseys have dealt with Burke from day 1 of this crime are incredibly suspicious and to me, play right into the ongoing coverup
of what really happened Christmas night 1996.

~Angel~

Patsy seems to be saying, without saying, "don't go there, pal." Her behavior of seemingly distancing Burke is very suspect.

Good post, Angel.

IMO

The Ramseys continually say they don't talk with Burke about the killing of JonBenet but, when questioned intensely, Patsy had to admit to the truth:


TOM HANEY: "And have you talked about it a lot, have you discussed all of these various theories?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Over and over and over."

TOM HANEY: "You say he didn't do it and he says you didn't do it, and didn't have any part in any coverup, anything like that. Any staging. That only leaves one other person alive in the house at the time, that's Burke."

PATSY RAMSEY: "And the murderer."

TOM HANEY: "5:52 A.M.?"

PATSY RAMSEY: Okay. So?"

TOM HANEY: "So you said it wasn't you and it wasn't John. Could it have been Burke?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "No. It wouldn't have been Burke."

TOM HANEY: "Why couldn't it?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "How do you believe you saw (inaudible) a ten year old, nine year old boy (inaudible). Plus the fact that he loved his sister."

TOM HANEY: "It's not unheard of for a nine or ten year old child?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "My child is unheard of."

TOM HANEY: "And why is that? What would make him different from some other nine or ten year old?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Because he was not raised in a family of violence. We are a very loving family."

TOM HANEY: "Could it have been an accident?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "I -- don't know."

TOM HANEY: "Well, you and I don't know because we weren't there?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Right."

TOM HANEY: "So do you think it could have been, he could have pushed her down the stairs -- "

PATSY RAMSEY: "Burke Ramsey did not do this, okay. He did not do this. Get off it."

TOM HANEY: "How do you know that, though? I mean, have you talked to him about it?"

PATSY RAMSEY: "Yes."


JMO

Well she had to change her story here and say she HAD spoken to him because she could see where the questioning was leading. If she said she had never spoken to him about it, then Haney would have countered with "So how do you know he wasn't involved if you've never discussed it?".

K777angel said:

Then they ship him off to an unsecure location that day. Away from their watchful eye and safe from the brutal "kidnappers" who say they are watching the Ramseys every move.

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I remember Steve Thomas in chat saying that one of the reasons the BPD felt Burke had nothing to do with the crime was that The Ramseys shipped him off to an unsecured location that morning instead of keeping him at home where they could have had control over him.
So it looks like the Ramseys pushed the right button on that one. The BPD was too inexperienced to look at the alternative, which would have been keeping Burke in a house where a body was about to be discovered, and a lot more cops would be showing up.

Bluecrab,

What is your source for your last post of the interview with Patsy Ramsey? I have not seen this before.

I feel very certain that someday we will find out the truth about what happened to JonBenet Ramsey, when Burke reaches adulthood and is no longer under the control of his parents. I predict that he will either voluntarily tell us who killed his sister because he was there and saw it happen and is tired of keeping the truth in (or just will want to rebel against his controlling parents), or he is going to crack and commit some horrible crime and the whole story will be revealed in the subsequent investigation/psychological testing.


Thanks!

My question is whether John and Patsy ever sought the advice of the police that were there in their home (summoned by the Ramseys mind you) that morning on whether it was a good idea to hustle Burke away from their home to an unsecured location????
If they didn't - why not? That is suspicious.
If they did - WHAT exactly did the police advise them to do? Given the threats in the note - I find it incredible that the police would agree that it was "safe" to send Burke across town.

I have never heard the police comment on that particular situation that morning.
They shoved Burke out the door before Det. Arndt was there I believe.
She arrived around 8:00am, and Burke was whisked away around 7:00am.

I think Burke was sent away so swiftly that morning so he wouldn't spill any beans with the cops who were swarming the house that morning.
That would have made the Ramseys extremely nervous.
I mean - they couldn't keep the kid in bed ALL DAY.
We know he had gotten up and out of bed at one point just before 6:00am because his voice can be heard speaking to his father on the 911 tape.
His father rebukes him sternly.
And then we KNOW that Burke must have been sent back to bed because that's where he was when the officer arrived.
I'm sure he was told to keep his trap shut as well.

Of the 2 places to choose from - the White's was a much "safer" place in that regard. Burke could obsess himself with his Nintendo he had just gotten and loved (which went with him to the White's) and the Ramseys most likely warned him sternly to simply say he was "sleeping." All night. All morning.

You have to wonder if the Ramseys also cautioned the Whites not to upset Burke by talking about anything going on....reassure him, keep his mind OFF of what was going on at home. All this could have worked in Burke's effort to keep his trap shut also.

Cypros said:

Bluecrab,
What is your source for your last post of the interview with Patsy Ramsey? I have not seen this before.Thanks!

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The NE left out a lot of information about Burke during the interviews. I happened to come across some of it from another source.

JMO

BlueCrab said:

The NE left out a lot of information about Burke during the interviews. I happened to come across some of it from another source.

JMO

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Well let's have it Bluecrab!

K777angel said:

Well let's have it Bluecrab!

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Angel,

When I come across more about Burke, and it's appropriate to post, I will post it.

JMO

Yes, please do Bluecrab. I am very interested.