Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #4

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Sheerluck, thanks for the links.

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What I don't get about the Jailhouse informant is, if his/her info is so good that it changed the COD on Chris' autopsy report, then why doesn't it lead to someone?

Excellent question. The only thing i can think is that the FBI's ego is bruised because the detectives appear to be much smarter than the FBI. The FBI missed the connections 5 years ago and now they're embarrassed. Also the detectives idea of setting up a nationwide investigation service probably bothers the FBI because that's supposed to be the FBI's job. Sometimes men are more prone to ego related issues than women.......
 
Thanks Morag. I haven't posted but I've been keeping up on all the threads.
 
To continue the discussion about the smarts the killer(s) have. Not sure how smart the killers are, I think it might be more that LE was clueless enabling the killers to get away with this for so long.
 
I still think the jailhouse informant is either John Lilly or Jaramy Alford or maybe even Jaramy's brother. I'm leaning towards Lilly because he was a member of the drowning fetish website. He's a perfect example of how he's not a smart guy and LE ignored him for years.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64096
 
I still think the jailhouse informant is either John Lilly or Jaramy Alford or maybe even Jaramy's brother. I'm leaning towards Lilly because he was a member of the drowning fetish website. He's a perfect example of how he's not a smart guy and LE ignored him for years.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64096

Personally I don't think it is either. The idea of pods and groups with an heirarchy speaks to me of a systematic group..where those at the top control the direction of the group and the followers carry out those orders. On thread three when I put the CNN link in I referred to this theory. It is important to remember there is an heirarchy. I don't see either Lilly or the Alford's being followers, nor do I think they possess the intelligence to devise this plan of an undetectable criminal death. They could carry it out..but I don't think they are people this particular group would trust to carry it out.
 
Personally I don't think it is either. The idea of pods and groups with an heirarchy speaks to me of a systematic group..where those at the top control the direction of the group and the followers carry out those orders. On thread three when I put the CNN link in I referred to this theory. It is important to remember there is an heirarchy. I don't see either Lilly or the Alford's being followers, nor do I think they possess the intelligence to devise this plan of an undetectable criminal death. They could carry it out..but I don't think they are people this particular group would trust to carry it out.


The informant may not have been an actual member or an active participant. And I do see a possibility of an organization through a drowning fetish club that Lilly was involved in.

ETA: Pdf page 50 is why I feel Lilly is the informant.

http://kstp.com/kstpImages/mpdcasefile.pdf
 
I thought they were intelligent people doing this and not some street punk types. Which, I might add confuses me as to how a "not smart, not good in school" person or people could pull off as perfect of murder repeatedly as I have ever heard of!! Makes no sense to me.
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Most serial killers are men who use brute force without a lot of thought. That's why I thought these were simple street abductions on quiet dark streets. I didn't think the killers would be showing up and entering the bar first though; that would surprise me unless there are 2 teams of killers--1 team to socialize in the bar and slip a cap of GHB in a victims drink and another team in a van that waits outside

SL- I completely disagree with your statement of "brute force without a lot of thought" the mean IQ of known serial killers is in excess of 160- all they are is thought, root cause varies, but you could never accuse any true SK that I am aware of as being thoughtless. I thought you were reading the posts, please read my theory upthread on each role of alleged perp team-
 
Does this point to the killer carrying something with a set dose of GHB that's not enough to knock out a large person? Or so strong that a small person would go toes up on the spot, rather than leaving the bar?

I'm thinking syringe or pipette.

I think it does, but they have encountered differences in tolerances, imo. I think Seriously Searching theorized an eye drop bottle. It's that easy
 
If it was Lilly I would think they would have gotten to him by now..or think that his thoughts are so outlandish no one would believe him.
 
I think if we go back to the issue of the detectives saying that there was an hierarchy then what he says does not destroy any theory of thinking that the ones at the top of the food chain, order these killings, probably are, very intelligent and very organized. They are not the ones doing the physical kidnapping and may not be the ones placing the Vic's in the water. Think of the Mafia, the people at the top come up with the plans and strategies. They hire punks and thugs to take care of the work they don't want to dirty their hands with. Yet they call the shots.

I think we are looking at a similar structure here, just not the Mafia. The top of this particular group is intelligent and organized..thrilled they have found a way to do this for so long without being caught. The people that are part of their group are the followers , who will do what they are told, exactly as they are told or risk their own demise. There are probably both personal and private gains for them. These people who are acting for the top would be the ones who would not have done well in school, nor been popular. They are more then willing to help with the demise of these targets that the intelligent top has picked.

I think the detectives are putting the message out there to let these people know they are getting closer and they know how the group functions. And also beware to the worker bees in the group..they are saying they have their number. Maybe they are hoping some of them will give up info to save their own selves.

DD- I totally agree with you. Based on your analogy, think the differences between Sonny and Fredo- The Leader, based on either birthrite or promotion, different levels shielding the "leader" and the soldiers which are expendable, and that sometimes it is an example, and sometimes it is for the bigger picture. To think a group could get away with this kind of chaos without serious planning and acumen, imo, is not possible.
 
The informant may not have been an actual member or an active participant. And I do see a possibility of an organization through a drowning fetish club that Lilly was involved in.

ETA: Pdf page 50 is why I feel Lilly is the informant.

http://kstp.com/kstpImages/mpdcasefile.pdf

Because he was listed as living in PA- Do you mean they took his address at face value? Glad to see you Suzie Q!
 
If it was Lilly I would think they would have gotten to him by now..or think that his thoughts are so outlandish no one would believe him.

Im betting on Jaramy Alford- his murder conviction and the MOD exacted on his vic by he and his brother was remarkably vicious and brutal- But I still maintain the info came from a cellmate at least on paper, via Jaramy.
I know he plead guilty and testified that his minor brother was not involved; makes me think he tried to swing a deal and that's where it came from-
 
Im betting on Jaramy Alford- his murder conviction and the MOD exacted on his vic by he and his brother was remarkably vicious and brutal- But I still maintain the info came from a cellmate at least on paper, via Jaramy.
I know he plead guilty and testified that his minor brother was not involved; makes me think he tried to swing a deal and that's where it came from-

Glad to see you too! The weather went back to winterlike so I'm inside again. Anyways, good point about Jaramy wanting to cut a deal. And unfortunately MPLS did take the PA address for Lilly at face value and closed the tip.
 
If it was Lilly I would think they would have gotten to him by now..or think that his thoughts are so outlandish no one would believe him.

A little of both I think. LE in Missouri was so scared of the guy because he was so kooky, they filed a restraining order keeping him out of their station. I can't remember which one, Lilly or Alford, but LE was looking at pressing charges in relation to Chris Jenkins case and then they said they didn't have enough evidence.
 
I'll just put this out there...Could this be the makings for some sort of "College initiation??". I am curious why similiar drownings are happening in different states on the same day. It has to be more than coincedence.
 
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