Autopsy Report - 13 Fatal wounds ***DISCUSSION***

[YellowDog]

Yellow Dog, the markings were all about Zac Efron and High School Musical. They were trying to give themselves Zac tattoos. They had Zac and Zanessa written on themselves with markers. They were the ultimate fans. They died with their hero's name on their bodies!

That's why I put the two HSM 3 magazines at the memorial.

Well, maybe, but I'm not convinced of that.

[ArizonaGiGi]

Yellowdog, what do you think the reasons might be for the markings?
I just assumed it was a connection to High School Musical and never really considered much else.
I would be interested in your theory.

[Mysterylover]

I am very new to autopsy reading and am also a little befuddled by the backward and forward but I think that the backward means shot from the back and forward from the front.

I just re-read the reports and it seems Skyla has a number of shot entrances in the back and the exit is in the front. Can't get to the notes at this moment to count how many but I wonder was she running?

Skyla has an Atypical exit wound.

Anybody know what that means exactly? Also Skyla has gray powder on her face down her neck.
NOT soot or stippling, the report says.... What?:...confused:.....

ArizonaZ...Good find and good questions, was the girls running from someone?

Could the GRAY Powder on Skyla's face and neck be a clue to where and what the girls was doing immediately before the shooting....does the autopsy say it isn't soot from a truck tail pipe? What about weed/brush spray, from power-line spray? Would it be some type tattoo powder? What about camp-fire ashes?

I assume it isn't finger-print powder....so what is the gray powder on Skyla's face and neck.?.

[YellowDog]

Yellowdog, what do you think the reasons might be for the markings?
I just assumed it was a connection to High School Musical and never really considered much else.
I would be interested in your theory.

Well, some of them were in awkward places that would be hard to place yourself. I was wondering if someone had more or less "branded" them as in a possessive sort of way.

[ArizonaGiGi]

Skyla has the letter "Z" scab on the back of her leg and that would be impossible for her to do to herself but I wonder if Taylor didn't do it for her?
They both loved Zac from High School Musical. But that's just my guess.

[Mysterylover]

Well, maybe, but I'm not convinced of that.....

YellowDog, I'm not convinced either....Let's trust LE has looked deeper into this...
tattoo's behind upper legs, like a gang brand...very disturbing and strange...imo

[debbie0604]

Okay, I've looked at both autopsies, as best I can, and just wish someone professional could read it for us in lay terms. The "backward" and "forward" information about the shots confuses me. I'll have to look that up.

What I can ponder is the gunshots were mostly from the front, as far as I can tell. The 13 year old, Taylor, who was shot three times in the face and once in the neck, seems to have been closer to one shot than any of the others and closer to her killer's gun than the other child, Skyla, was to the shots fired at her. Well, that may or may not be true, as I can't really read an autopsy report, obviously, but I'm THINKING this because one shot had stippling from the gun powder, IF I'm reading this correctly. This makes me wonder, with the shots being to the face and her being the older, if possibly her attack was more personal--in the face.

Also, I can't make out what would have caused the abrasion on Taylor's cheek. Did she get that falling on something, or did she get hit by one of the assailants? With the gun butt--the size of the abrasion being small but the M. E.'s drawing makes it look brutal? Surely they'd have found traces of metals or oils, or a pattern of some kind from the shape or texture of the gun if that was the case...? Maybe not, just some thoughts.

So the killers just shot these children like dogs. No sexual assault at all. That's a bit odd, too, considering a killer, particularly more than one, would seem to have no boundaries that would stop two of them from further abusing the girls. So that leads me to wonder if the killers were immature and new at this kind of crime, afraid of getting caught if they lingered too long or tried to kidnap the girls to take them somewhere private first? Or perhaps they had nowhere to take them, being minors or living with relatives?

Most adult males who are this depraved would have thought of securing a location for sexual abuse, it would seem to me, if they were experienced criminals before killing the girls. Unless this was a random attack, which came out of the blue, somehow provoked during a chance encounter, asking for directions or something.

Of course, no one knows the actual pathology of a killer until you know the killer, but no sexual assault makes me wonder if one or more of the assailants was a female. Just thinking...nothing more.

One thing that I'm also wondering: if the killer hit Taylor on the face, were there footprints? She seems to have dropped to her left knee--abrasions there, and that would seem to come from being hit on the right side on her upper cheek. I wonder what the positions of the bodies were when discovered. LE might not know, as the family who found them might have moved them, naturally enough, of course. God help them.

The other child, Skyla, seems to have been shot rather impersonally, mostly in the chest and abdomen area.

The thing is, were these children trying to run away? Skyla has a couple of shots that may have been her turning around, or maybe she was whipped around by the shots, I don't know. Taylor had her hand up to protect herself, which is when she was shot through the hand, but that's about all the time she seems to have had to react before she was dead. So it would seem there were two killers. Otherwise, one at least would have begun to run, it seems to me. And that would have meant one killer would have used the same gun on the one running, to stop her? Could have, I can't remember if the autopsy specified exactly what caliber bullets were used on each shot, so I'll have to look at that again.

Let's say Taylor was shot first: in the face, relatively small target zone, three or four quick shots; then one in the groin as she lay there, it seems, the bullet traveling upward through her body all the way to her lungs and torso, if I remember correctly. So it would take a second or two for the body to fall backward, when that last shot was fired, unless the killer came back to shoot that one, which is possible. (This is where the issue is important of which gun was used on which child, or both? I don't know, I'm just winging it here.) It would take a few seconds at least to get off five shots that hit your target, I'd think. Those shots were none of them point blank, gun to face, and only one had any stippling from one shot, so the killer had to be a couple of feet or more away, right? So what was Skyla doing once the shots started?

She might have been too scared to run. It happened fast, it appears. But she was hit by a small caliber bullet in at least one shot, if I am remembering my quick read of the autopsy. So that would be the second gun, because Taylor had a medium size bullet found in her, right? So this has me wondering if both girls were shot at about the same time, giving neither a chance to react.

But there was no fighting other than the abrasion on Taylor's cheek and knee that I can see. Though there were abrasions on the back of Skyla's legs and buttocks...or am I misremembering this? Sorry, I'll have to go back to study these and do some research when I have more time. Unless someone else has done this already and if so, thanks in advance and can you tell me where to find it?

I guess what I'm wondering is, did they know their killers? Or did they simply trust strangers who stopped and shot them so brutally, not thinking to run, not panicking, not suspecting strangers could be so wantonly monstrous?

Surely LE has evidence of tire tracks, footprints, blood spatter, bullets and therefore knows the models of the guns used.

Well, don't pay too much attention to what I'm speculating on, because I haven't looked at this more than the short news bites before today. I hope it's just a matter of time before these killers are caught. If there were two of them, they may turn on each other. Or one of them may not be able to keep it quiet, may brag or repent...or let it slip while drunk. I hope....

I work in Pathology, and am familiar with autopsy reports. The bullets entered their bodies in a forward motion, or in some of the wounds "a slightly forward" motion, and exited (left their bodies) in the same way. This is the "Direction" of the path of the bullet. It seems to me that the girls were facing the shooter(s). Also, the ME indicates in the autopsy report that both girls were found by the grandfather lying "supine" (lying on the back). It wound seem to me that if the girls were running away from the shooter(s) that they would have been found "prostrate" or (face down). Just my opinion.

[little726]

I work in Pathology, and am familiar with autopsy reports. The bullets entered their bodies in a forward motion, or in some of the wounds "a slightly forward" motion, and exited (left their bodies) in the same way. This is the "Direction" of the path of the bullet. It seems to me that the girls were facing the shooter(s). Also, the ME indicates in the autopsy report that both girls were found by the grandfather lying "supine" (lying on the back). It wound seem to me that if the girls were running away from the shooter(s) that they would have been found "prostrate" or (face down). Just my opinion.

Debbie, thank you for your input. It is much appreciated.

[debbie0604]

Debbie, thank you for your input. It is much appreciated.

Thank you... I appreciate your welcome.

[KeyboardPlayer]

Hi Debbie and welcome! Thanks so much for sharing your input. Are you familiar with toxicology reports as well? One question I've always had is why Taylor's sample has a hold time of 30 days but Skyla's has a hold time of 5 years. Again, thanks!

Cheers,
KP

[little726]

Hi Debbie and welcome! Thanks so much for sharing your input. Are you familiar with toxicology reports as well? One question I've always had is why Taylor's sample has a hold time of 30 days but Skyla's has a hold time of 5 years. Again, thanks!

Cheers,
KP

KP, I have also questioned that.

Debbie, do you have any ideas?

[Boots-OK]

I work in Pathology, and am familiar with autopsy reports. The bullets entered their bodies in a forward motion, or in some of the wounds "a slightly forward" motion, and exited (left their bodies) in the same way. This is the "Direction" of the path of the bullet. It seems to me that the girls were facing the shooter(s). Also, the ME indicates in the autopsy report that both girls were found by the grandfather lying "supine" (lying on the back). It wound seem to me that if the girls were running away from the shooter(s) that they would have been found "prostrate" or (face down). Just my opinion.

Thank you so much for your informative post. I, too, welcome you and encourage you to continue posting. Just wait until after the holidays - you will be inundated with questions due to your insight.

It appears to me that Skyla had just turned to run when she was, perhaps, hit in the arm. Provided that is the case, would that shot have spun her around facing the shooter? Also, I'd like to know what your take is on the abrasions found on their bodies?

Again, welcome and I look forward to reading any additional thoughts you may have.

[debbie0604]

Hi Debbie and welcome! Thanks so much for sharing your input. Are you familiar with toxicology reports as well? One question I've always had is why Taylor's sample has a hold time of 30 days but Skyla's has a hold time of 5 years. Again, thanks!

Cheers,
KP

Hi KP!! Thank you for the welcome! Laboratories (include State Forensic Laboratories)keep records on file for 5 years and their records will include their toxicology reports. I'm not sure why Taylor's report states a hold time of 30 days. I'm thinking that may be a typo. (Working in Pathology myself - this happens and it goes unnoticed by staff).

[Lauren - CA]

Welcome Debbie! Thank you so much for posting! I agree with Boots. Once the holidays are over with you will be inundated with tons of questions. We do appreciate any information you can give us.

[debbie0604]

Thank you so much for your informative post. I, too, welcome you and encourage you to continue posting. Just wait until after the holidays - you will be inundated with questions due to your insight.

It appears to me that Skyla had just turned to run when she was, perhaps, hit in the arm. Provided that is the case, would that shot have spun her around facing the shooter? Also, I'd like to know what your take is on the abrasions found on their bodies?

Again, welcome and I look forward to reading any additional thoughts you may have.

Hi Boots, thank you so much for your welcome!! That's a good thought. I was wondering from reading that report if possibly the shooters had shot her in the abdomen first (#VII Epigastrium), then hitting her in the chest and the shots to her arms were just random viscious shots. The shooter(s) are viscious killers. Also #VIII was a gunshot in which the shooter came within close enough range to leave gunpowder. I'm wondering if the girls were not facing the shooter.

The coroner did not make much note of the abrasions. There was a linear scab of a "Z" on the back of the left hip and a "scar" on the inner aspect of the left arm. I noticed that there were some paint markings on their bodies that they had made on each other like typical little girls will do when bored. The "Z" scar could be from what kids will do when they are bored as well. Could the other abrasions be from where they fell in the brush?