Madeleine McCann General Discussion Thread No. 25

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colomom

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Please continue the discussion here...


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Previous thread here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68466
 
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2517982&postcount=406

Correio da Manha (http://www.correiomanha.pt/noticia.a...0-000000000010)

Copied from: http://helpmadeleine.proboards79.com...ad=1355&page=9 #124

19 Agosto 2008 - 00h30



PJ admitted that the children had been drugged

Kate's strange attitudes

A strange attitude by Kate, on the day of Madeleine's disappearance was pointed out by Fiona Payne, one of the members of the British group on holiday in P da L.

FP's witness statement says that Maddie's mother, during the first hours marked by despair and by a feeling close to frustration, several times approached the twins, holding her fingers close to their noses.

Sean and Amélie were asleep at this time, but Kate seemed to want to confirm that that her youngest children were alive, checking if they were breathing.

This is very weird. I could TOTALLY understand Kate's concern that the "abductor" might have drugged her twins...Matter of fact, I would even praise her if she would have rushed them to a local hospital to run lab tests to make sure nothing harmful had been injected in them. Isn't it odd that she would check to see if they were still breathing, but not immediately think the abductor might have poisoned them...you know, to keep them quiet or something. How come she was so sure the "abductor" did nothing to harm her other children.:waitasec:

Not only did she leave her twins alone in the apartment after the "abductor" took one of her children, she didn't have a medical tox screening done to make sure the "abductor" didn't harm them either. She must have been pretty close friends with the "abductor" to trust them so completely. The twins were so knocked out that she felt it nessary to check for their respiration (several times), they never woke in the all the major chaos, but they didn't think once to have them tested for a potentially deadly injectable poison?
 
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2517982&postcount=406

Correio da Manha (http://www.correiomanha.pt/noticia.a...0-000000000010)

Copied from: http://helpmadeleine.proboards79.com...ad=1355&page=9 #124

19 Agosto 2008 - 00h30





This is very weird. I could TOTALLY understand Kate's concern that the "abductor" might have drugged her twins...Matter of fact, I would even praise her if she would have rushed them to a local hospital to run lab tests to make sure nothing harmful had been injected in them. Isn't it odd that she would check to see if they were still breathing, but not immediately think the abductor might have poisoned them...you know, to keep them quiet or something. How come she was so sure the "abductor" did nothing to harm her other children.:waitasec:

Not only did she leave her twins alone in the apartment after the "abductor" took one of her children, she didn't have a medical tox screening done to make sure the "abductor" didn't harm them either. She must have been pretty close friends with the "abductor" to trust them so completely. The twins were so knocked out that she felt it nessary to check for their respiration (several times), they never woke in the all the major chaos, but they didn't think once to have them tested for a potentially deadly injectable poison?

..or to worry in case they had been injected using a dirty needle.

But I think we all know why that was dont we! Gerry mused (we saw it on video) about the twins possibly having been sedated - but didnt get them checked! How anyone can trust the McCanns I have no idea, its so obvious that they cannot be trusted. Seems more than likely that Madeleine died as a result of sedation, all the doctors in on the method, hence all sticking together so solidly.

But did she wake and have an acciodet or did the sedation make her ill (hence O'Brien and the 'sick child' story - and the clothes change and sheet change stories!)
 
Or to wake them up!!! Isn't that the first thing you would do? Wake them up and ask where is Maddie? I think I would do this, even before I screamed for help from others. At that moment when it began to dawn on me that she was not in the apartment, I would be shaking the other 2 awake and asking where is Maddie? And then I would definitely be taking them both with me if I left the room.

I don't understand how she could have left them behind. In a panic you don't always do what you think you would do, however in a panic from a missing child would make you want to be doubly sure the other children were there. You would pick them up!

Salem
 
Or to wake them up!!! Isn't that the first thing you would do? Wake them up and ask where is Maddie? I think I would do this, even before I screamed for help from others. At that moment when it began to dawn on me that she was not in the apartment, I would be shaking the other 2 awake and asking where is Maddie? And then I would definitely be taking them both with me if I left the room.

I don't understand how she could have left them behind. In a panic you don't always do what you think you would do, however in a panic from a missing child would make you want to be doubly sure the other children were there. You would pick them up!

Salem

Absolutely agree Salem, you would of course waken the other children in an attempt to find out what happened & you certainly would not leave them alone if you thought that one child had been abducted!

If Madeleine did die from sedation or the repercussions thereof such as an accident, it takes two EXTREMELY callous parents to just dump her little body! Regardless of any personal consequences, I doubt that many parents could be so cruel!
 
Or to wake them up!!! Isn't that the first thing you would do? Wake them up and ask where is Maddie? I think I would do this, even before I screamed for help from others. At that moment when it began to dawn on me that she was not in the apartment, I would be shaking the other 2 awake and asking where is Maddie? And then I would definitely be taking them both with me if I left the room.

I don't understand how she could have left them behind. In a panic you don't always do what you think you would do, however in a panic from a missing child would make you want to be doubly sure the other children were there. You would pick them up!

Salem

Exactly! Not a pass of the fingers under their noses to make sure they are breathing...Good grief. I think it's safe to say that the majority of us would be screaming...What happened to your big sister...???:furious:
 
Absolutely agree Salem, you would of course waken the other children in an attempt to find out what happened & you certainly would not leave them alone if you thought that one child had been abducted!

If Madeleine did die from sedation or the repercussions thereof such as an accident, it takes two EXTREMELY callous parents to just dump her little body! Regardless of any personal consequences, I doubt that many parents could be so cruel!

Doesn't the fact that rather than wake the twins, she checked their breathing, show how callous she is?

Doesn't ignoring Maddie's plea to not be left alone show how callous she is?

Doesn't leaving all 3 of them alone, knowing full well the myriad of accidents they might have, show how callous she is?

Doesn't leaving the twins in the creche day after day (do you suppose they were scared to be left?) after Maddie's vanishing show how callous she is?

I could probably come up with some more (feel free) but I think I have made my point.

She is callous with a capital C and Gerry, who stood by and did nothing, guilty by association, with a capital G!!
 
Wasn't there a leaked photo from those recently revealed photos? Didn't we have a link somewhere to it? I can't find it now!

I've never understood why the twins weren't wakened. At that age, immediately after the fact, they could have told something.

Kate left the twins to run back to the restaurant.

She didn't try to awaken the children to ask where Maddie was, to see if they knew anything, even toddler talk.

As Tony Bennet has pointed out, there seems to be some line of thinking that the twins weren't there at all at first, but were brought from someone else's room, based on I believe, Charlotte Pennington's account.
 
If Madeleine did die from sedation or the repercussions thereof such as an accident, it takes two EXTREMELY callous parents to just dump her little body! Regardless of any personal consequences, I doubt that many parents could be so cruel!

You're so right Barnaby! I am a mother of three and if something like this happens to me, I would be so depressed and angry with myself that I WILL WILLING GO TO PRISON FOR IT! :(

I was thinking guys, since we know Maddie was crying on May 1st and probably "ruined" her parent's dinner with her crying, I wonder if they decided to INCREASE THE DOSE of whatever they were giving her to make sure she sleeps throughout the night and the dose ended up being fatal?
 
Wasn't there a leaked photo from those recently revealed photos? Didn't we have a link somewhere to it? I can't find it now!

I've never understood why the twins weren't wakened. At that age, immediately after the fact, they could have told something.

Kate left the twins to run back to the restaurant.

She didn't try to awaken the children to ask where Maddie was, to see if they knew anything, even toddler talk.

As Tony Bennet has pointed out, there seems to be some line of thinking that the twins weren't there at all at first, but were brought from someone else's room, based on I believe, Charlotte Pennington's account.

Texana, I remember well a report last year that stated that ALL the children of the Mc Canns and the other doctors were kept in ONE APARTMENT, sometimes it was the Mc Cann's apartment and they would rotate. This would make MORE sense, since ONE person could go and check ALL the kids at once.
 
Doesn't the fact that rather than wake the twins, she checked their breathing, show how callous she is?

Doesn't ignoring Maddie's plea to not be left alone show how callous she is?

Doesn't leaving all 3 of them alone, knowing full well the myriad of accidents they might have, show how callous she is?

Doesn't leaving the twins in the creche day after day (do you suppose they were scared to be left?) after Maddie's vanishing show how callous she is?

I could probably come up with some more (feel free) but I think I have made my point.

She is callous with a capital C and Gerry, who stood by and did nothing, guilty by association, with a capital G!!

Oh colomon I could quote so many more instances of their callousness, I won't bore anyone by citing what has been said before but one that stands out for me is Kate saying that she could sleep so well after the first few nights, I am afraid I would never sleep again if I thought that my child was with paedophiles!
Sadly most people here like myself will have experienced loss, worry & trauma in life & all too well know that nighttime can be the very worst when one is alone with their thoughts in the dark & this callous cow with a missing baby sleeps like a log?? DUH!!

You're so right Barnaby! I am a mother of three and if something like this happens to me, I would be so depressed and angry with myself that I WILL WILLING GO TO PRISON FOR IT! :(

I was thinking guys, since we know Maddie was crying on May 1st and probably "ruined" her parent's dinner with her crying, I wonder if they decided to INCREASE THE DOSE of whatever they were giving her to make sure she sleeps throughout the night and the dose ended up being fatal?

Too right Sleuthmom, most parents would at least have the decency to put their hands up if only to give their child an appropriate burial!

I don't think that death was totally due to sedation (dying in her sleep) as I do trust the findings of the dogs & there was blood detected, so either a drug induced accident or a more violent attack!
 
"McCann children 'were not alone in apartment'

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article2621809.ece

(I'm not Texana, but I am a Texan.)

Thanks for this article link, Morag. Not to change the subject, but it was just a few days ago that everyone was talking about the email from the FSS. Here is a snip from this article:

"A source at the Forensic Science Service in Birmingham, which carried out the tests on behalf of the Portuguese authorities, is reported to have said that the results showed police were right to make the couple arguidos, or official suspects."

So there was someone at the FSS that thought the forensics would be positive.

Salem
 
Thanks for this article link, Morag. Not to change the subject, but it was just a few days ago that everyone was talking about the email from the FSS. Here is a snip from this article:

"A source at the Forensic Science Service in Birmingham, which carried out the tests on behalf of the Portuguese authorities, is reported to have said that the results showed police were right to make the couple arguidos, or official suspects."

So there was someone at the FSS that thought the forensics would be positive.

Salem

Thanks, Salem, this is what I've thought all along--that not everyone at the lab agreed--
 
The thoughts regarding the twins are very valid, I beleive.

The odd behaviour of not checking with your friend, supposedly in a nearby apartment, to see if perhaps she had heard Maddie crying (in view of the previous mornings crying story and McCann puzzlement) and come to get her has been defneded by saying she was in a panic (a GP in a panic, tut tut?). But if she was in a panic, how come she doesnt awaken the twins as was suggested above, in a panic, to see if they knew anything. Was it, perhaps, becase they had locked the doors and Madeleine couldnt have been taken by the friend? Or did the friend 'phone the Tapas to tell them they had heard crying from the apartment and when Kate came to check she was confronted with a terrible scene, which included Maddie being there? Although we have been told that - depite earlier stories - Gerry used a key to get in and came in the front door, we have not been told how Kate got in. Did she also have to use a key and is this why the other doctors checks didnt involve entering the apartment?

If we assume that all the doors were in fact locked, doesnt that remove any chance at all of Madeleine having been abducted - unless of course, someone had a key? Why is this possibility never discussed?
 
The thoughts regarding the twins are very valid, I beleive.
Or did the friend 'phone the Tapas to tell them they had heard crying from the apartment and when Kate came to check she was confronted with a terrible scene, which included Maddie being there? Although we have been told that - depite earlier stories - Gerry used a key to get in and came in the front door, we have not been told how Kate got in. Did she also have to use a key and is this why the other doctors checks didnt involve entering the apartment?

If we assume that all the doors were in fact locked, doesnt that remove any chance at all of Madeleine having been abducted - unless of course, someone had a key? Why is this possibility never discussed?

The whole door/key thing is another key (sorry, bad pun) point--the McCanns' story changed about the locked doors. First they were locked, then they said they weren't, then they said they were BUT the patio door must have been unlocked.

Also, that's why the insistence on the window shutters being jimmied open.
 
Thanks for this article link, Morag. Not to change the subject, but it was just a few days ago that everyone was talking about the email from the FSS. Here is a snip from this article:

"A source at the Forensic Science Service in Birmingham, which carried out the tests on behalf of the Portuguese authorities, is reported to have said that the results showed police were right to make the couple arguidos, or official suspects."

So there was someone at the FSS that thought the forensics would be positive.

Salem

Thanks, Salem, this is what I've thought all along--that not everyone at the lab agreed--


I have always thought that there was some one at the FSS who perhaps had reason to tamper with the samples. I cannot understand original findings then a blank. There must have been a very good reason for FSS to say the police were right so what changed presuming that the sample remained the same????

The thoughts regarding the twins are very valid, I beleive.

The odd behaviour of not checking with your friend, supposedly in a nearby apartment, to see if perhaps she had heard Maddie crying (in view of the previous mornings crying story and McCann puzzlement) and come to get her has been defneded by saying she was in a panic (a GP in a panic, tut tut?). But if she was in a panic, how come she doesnt awaken the twins as was suggested above, in a panic, to see if they knew anything. Was it, perhaps, becase they had locked the doors and Madeleine couldnt have been taken by the friend? Or did the friend 'phone the Tapas to tell them they had heard crying from the apartment and when Kate came to check she was confronted with a terrible scene, which included Maddie being there? Although we have been told that - depite earlier stories - Gerry used a key to get in and came in the front door, we have not been told how Kate got in. Did she also have to use a key and is this why the other doctors checks didnt involve entering the apartment?

If we assume that all the doors were in fact locked, doesnt that remove any chance at all of Madeleine having been abducted - unless of course, someone had a key? Why is this possibility never discussed?

There have been many suggestions that the door was actually locked & that is why I think that Kate McCann tried the jemmied shutters lie - only way an abductor could have got in if doors were locked! When that didn't work their only option was to say the doors were unlocked!
Now I don't believe this for one minute, the McCanns don't value their children but I would guess that they are self centered enough to protect their belongings - passports, laptop etc!
 
Colomom said:
FP's witness statement says that Maddie's mother, during the first hours marked by despair and by a feeling close to frustration, several times approached the twins, holding her fingers close to their noses.

Sean and Amélie were asleep at this time, but Kate seemed to want to confirm that that her youngest children were alive, checking if they were breathing.

:furious: OK, I've been on Websleuths for a long time, and I read alot of things here that scare me ALOT, but something rare just happened.

I read about Kate's actions with the Twins and the hair at the back of my neck actually rose up! :eek:

So I'm asking myself again, if police in Portugal and England had read that statement from Fiona Payne, why didn't they hold an inquest about whether to bring charges? That is bizarre!
 
Doesn't the fact that rather than wake the twins, she checked their breathing, show how callous she is?

I think checking their breathing was the only loving mother concern she showed her children...goes to state of mind...re: Madeleine's disappearance...regarding her surviving children she was more concerned about the twins suffocating than being abducted. I have always thought Madeleine was overdosed and stopped breathing or choked on her own vomit....Maybe the Tapas member who discovered her convulsing or dying was the one who was gone from the table the longest? Because they are trained to handle medical crises, it could have been handled quietly... Maybe the group pact involves collective guilt over sedating their children and collective fear that their own parental rights are in jeopardy?
 
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