Date of Death?

There has been alot of difficulty nailing down a timeline, if we had a date of death it would make the rest of the timeline easier to determine. What was the date of death ? kc tells the 911 operator that she had not seen her daughter in 31 days. kc also sent a text message on june 24th stating "he$$, I havent even been living there in the past nine days" So, when was the date of death ?

KellioPSL said:

There has been alot of difficulty nailing down a timeline, if we had a date of death it would make the rest of the timeline easier to determine. What was the date of death ? kc tells the 911 operator that she had not seen her daughter in 31 days. kc also sent a text message on june 24th stating "he$$, I havent even been living there in the past nine days" So, when was the date of death ?

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While I know it's claimed there's a video with the date of the 15th on it, I have two problems with it.

1) Kaylee does not look like the pictures of the 3 yr old we are seeing.
2) I can't get past the 14th for some reason. This day stands out to me.
Can't put my finger on it.
3) Thinking something also occurred on the 9th. You have 3 people, CA,GA, and LA.
LA claims not having seen child since 5th,(on CA's b-day which he claims KC
was not there)
GA claims last time he saw child was the 6th
CA claims last time she saw child was the 8th

One person or giving benefit of the doubt, two people may get a date wrong, but not all three.

Also, CA's mom claims CA took off for a week waiting for KC to bring child to her.
It never hapened and CA took another week off and waited again to no avail.
GrdMOM claims CA didn't go away during this time. CA claims they went to the beach and she spent this week with the child -week ending the 8th.

Then, the week of the 15th, Ca claims she told KC she was planning to go away for a few days.

This is all old info from the early days of the investigation.
It has all changed again and again.

Just my thoughts, and mine alone. Just more food for thought.
One more thought- I believe I read somewhere that CA went off on KC over taking Kaylee to a no clothes party. If so, how did CA find out- AH or LA.
CA claims LA opened up to her about a lot of stuff KC was doing over the last
months. How did LA know? He had to have contact with her and easily confided in him. What all does he KNow?

RevCrim said:

While I know it's claimed there's a video with the date of the 15th on it, I have two problems with it.

1) Kaylee does not look like the pictures of the 3 yr old we are seeing.
2) I can't get past the 14th for some reason. This day stands out to me.
Can't put my finger on it.
3) Thinking something also occurred on the 9th. You have 3 people, CA,GA, and LA.
LA claims not having seen child since 5th,(on CA's b-day which he claims KC
was not there)
GA claims last time he saw child was the 6th
CA claims last time she saw child was the 8th

One person or giving benefit of the doubt, two people may get a date wrong, but not all three.

Also, CA's mom claims CA took off for a week waiting for KC to bring child to her.
It never hapened and CA took another week off and waited again to no avail.
GrdMOM claims CA didn't go away during this time. CA claims they went to the beach and she spent this week with the child -week ending the 8th.

Then, the week of the 15th, Ca claims she told KC she was planning to go away for a few days.

This is all old info from the early days of the investigation.
It has all changed again and again.

Just my thoughts, and mine alone. Just more food for thought.
One more thought- I believe I read somewhere that CA went off on KC over taking Kaylee to a no clothes party. If so, how did CA find out- AH or LA.
CA claims LA opened up to her about a lot of stuff KC was doing over the last
months. How did LA know? He had to have contact with her and easily confided in him. What all does he KNow?

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You bring up some very valid points that I had not considered (she does look younger in the vid from the 15th), may have to rethink the date now, this case is going to make my head explode !

Caylee was alive on the 15th of June. It is verified with a video, a sign in sheet at the nursing home where the video was taken, and statements from staff at the nursing home who saw her there that day. I'm sure CA's mother will testify to seeing her that day as well.

RevCrim said:

While I know it's claimed there's a video with the date of the 15th on it, I have two problems with it.

1) Kaylee does not look like the pictures of the 3 yr old we are seeing.
2) I can't get past the 14th for some reason. This day stands out to me.
Can't put my finger on it.
3) Thinking something also occurred on the 9th. You have 3 people, CA,GA, and LA.
LA claims not having seen child since 5th,(on CA's b-day which he claims KC
was not there)
GA claims last time he saw child was the 6th
CA claims last time she saw child was the 8th

One person or giving benefit of the doubt, two people may get a date wrong, but not all three.

Also, CA's mom claims CA took off for a week waiting for KC to bring child to her.
It never hapened and CA took another week off and waited again to no avail.
GrdMOM claims CA didn't go away during this time. CA claims they went to the beach and she spent this week with the child -week ending the 8th.

Then, the week of the 15th, Ca claims she told KC she was planning to go away for a few days.

This is all old info from the early days of the investigation.
It has all changed again and again.

Just my thoughts, and mine alone. Just more food for thought.
One more thought- I believe I read somewhere that CA went off on KC over taking Kaylee to a no clothes party. If so, how did CA find out- AH or LA.
CA claims LA opened up to her about a lot of stuff KC was doing over the last
months. How did LA know? He had to have contact with her and easily confided in him. What all does he KNow?

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I agree with #1. She does not look like the same age as in the picture of her vacuuming.

ETA: GA (i believe) was the one who held up the picture. I can not find it anywhere so if someone can please post.

I agree that the date of death would be after June 15th. But I am not so sure it was the 16th/17th or even the evening of the 15th. I think KC had been giving Caylee drugs for a period of time and keeping her in the trunk. KC's statement about the 31 days may be just another lie. She had time to think it up, she said it to LA when she was having her "pity" party. KC tends to say things to manipulate others and I have no doubt she was trying to manipulate the situation when CA found her on July 15th.

Because KC has never stated the truth about anything, this is a very difficult thing to pin down and I have no real sense of when Caylee may have died. But I seriously question KC's 31 day comment and feel that, along with everything else, it is probably a lie.

Salem

Everyone initially getting the date wrong (June 9th) was because Cindy got it wrong and everyone ran with that. She incorrectly recalled that Father's Day was the 9th. Casey's comment about the 31 days is the most accurate and fits exactly to the last verified sighting of Caylee.

SuziQ said:

Everyone initially getting the date wrong (June 9th) was because Cindy got it wrong and everyone ran with that. She incorrectly recalled that Father's Day was the 9th. Casey's comment about the 31 days is the most accurate and fits exactly to the last verified sighting of Caylee.

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but what was the date of death, the 15th ? When she sent the text about not living at home for nine days that would have her leaving the home on the 15th also.

CA has given three different dates as the last time she saw Caylee.
GA has given two.
Casey has given two.
That is done for one reason...confusion. The date of disappearance, in this case, the date of death probably, is one of the main pieces of info investigators need. So it's one of the main peices of info that the Anthony team will obscure as much as possible.

KellioPSL said:

but what was the date of death, the 15th ? When she sent the text about not living at home for nine days that would have her leaving the home on the 15th also.

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You have the fight late afternoon on the 15th, Cindy evidently trying to strangle Casey. Personally I can't imagine that Casey stayed there. I always got the feeling she ran to Lee's. He's close enough to the A's to have pinged at in the same area. She may have even just stayed in her car close by to her parents until her mom left the next morning or something.

SuziQ said:

You have the fight late afternoon on the 15th, Cindy evidently trying to strangle Casey. Personally I can't imagine that Casey stayed there. I always got the feeling she ran to Lee's. He's close enough to the A's to have pinged at in the same area. She may have even just stayed in her car close by to her parents until her mom left the next morning or something.

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the perp(kc) was at tone's allday, on the ping map it shows her heading to the area of the a"s around 700 or 730 so the fight had to be that evening. I would really like to see the text messages between the perp (kc) and mother from that afternoon. That would help us determine whether the " big fight " occurred or not.

I tried to pose the thought that none of these people really saw Caylee after the 9th here once, too. I was quickly shot down, by the facts of the video and sign in sheet from the 15th. I'm still not so sure. Some of it could be attributed to the panic of the moment the night CA called 911, but there is still statements being made the next day when they were still saying June 9th. Even the 'missing poster' had the date of June 9th on it, so it took them several days to change that story. If KC really was keeping count and KNEW it was 31 days, she wouldn't have made the mistake of stating the date of June 9th. I don't believe any thing any of them say, so my opinion is definitely tainted. I think CA did go to the nursing home on the 15th, and did sign in, but I doubt seriously that Caylee signed the log!! I think the nursing home staff, when asked, could have easily recalled seeing Caylee with CA, but not necessarily on the 15th.

I believe the date of demise is the week of June 9-15. I believe KC went to the house on the 15th and fight that occurred was because she didn't have Caylee with her.

After the nursing home visit on June 15th, which is also dated on video, Cindy and Caylee went to visit with Cindy's mom at her home to eat Chili. It's in Cindy's mother's interview with LE.

What I personally cant wrap my head around is WHY KC mentions the decomp smell in text messages dating as early as June 4th (I believe). It that to say she premeditated the entire thing by weeks? She PLANNED to have a rotting body in her trunk long enough to cause that vile smell? SCARY THOUGHT.

And I also seem to remember one of the grandparents said they SAW KC and Caylee leaving the house on the 16th in the early afternoon. That means the date of death was at least June 16th or sometime after.

Lisa-Rachelle said:

What I personally cant wrap my head around is WHY KC mentions the decomp smell in text messages dating as early as June 4th (I believe). It that to say she premeditated the entire thing by weeks? She PLANNED to have a rotting body in her trunk long enough to cause that vile smell? SCARY THOUGHT.

And I also seem to remember one of the grandparents said they SAW KC and Caylee leaving the house on the 16th in the early afternoon. That means the date of death was at least June 16th or sometime after.

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Did I miss that somewhere? There are text messages from June 4th that talk about the bad smell in the car???

I'll preface this by saying that I havent had as much time and opportunity to read through the released documents as most members have,...

BUT, I do seem to recall where she text messaged a girlfriend (maybe Amy or Annie?) in the first week of June and said something to the effect of either she or her dad ran over something in the car and it wreaked.

I will try and find Lee A's statements to LE. He mentions that his sister addressed the smell in the car...and it WAS DEFINITELY before Caylee went missing. That's where she gave that "oh, two dead squirrels crawled up in there (undercarriage of car) schpiel.

SuziQ said:

You have the fight late afternoon on the 15th, Cindy evidently trying to strangle Casey. Personally I can't imagine that Casey stayed there. I always got the feeling she ran to Lee's. He's close enough to the A's to have pinged at in the same area. She may have even just stayed in her car close by to her parents until her mom left the next morning or something.

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I totally agree with you - GA story of the 16th I put with the other dates of 5th 8th etc - find it hard believe that GA saw KC and Caylee on the 16th - no one could remember the last date Caylee was seen and then GA can name the show he was watching and the clothes that KC and Caylee were wearing???

Lisa-Rachelle said:

I will try and find Lee A's statements to LE. He mentions that his sister addressed the smell in the car...and it WAS DEFINITELY before Caylee went missing. That's where she gave that "oh, two dead squirrels crawled up in there (undercarriage of car) schpiel.

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IIRC - the Text to Amy was on the day TL picked her up from Amscott, she told not texted Lee she started noticing the smell around the 5th (the week of Cindy's B-day)

Salem said:

I agree that the date of death would be after June 15th. But I am not so sure it was the 16th/17th or even the evening of the 15th. I think KC had been giving Caylee drugs for a period of time and keeping her in the trunk. KC's statement about the 31 days may be just another lie. She had time to think it up, she said it to LA when she was having her "pity" party. KC tends to say things to manipulate others and I have no doubt she was trying to manipulate the situation when CA found her on July 15th.

Because KC has never stated the truth about anything, this is a very difficult thing to pin down and I have no real sense of when Caylee may have died. But I seriously question KC's 31 day comment and feel that, along with everything else, it is probably a lie.

Salem

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Maybe it's her "backwards kind of way" and it's really 13 days??? That would be July 2 - Tony gone, friends in PR, drove his jeep because her car was towed? Hmmmm maybe...just a thought here:

Caylee was alive and drugged in the trunk at Amscot. so many days in trunk she is practically living in there from 16th to 27th when gas ran out while mom lives with Tony - sorry but graphic here - vomit, urine, etc - sure would make a smell that she might try to explain away as animal but not be such a smell that it would alert Tony's neighbors, people at Amscot or tow driver?

She was calling JG, Amy and everyone trying to get a gas can and gas...needed to get the car out of there before it gets towed....checks on the car occasionally while running around "literally in circles" trying to get gas and/or can. Explains multiple pings at the "church tower" some lasting hours, others lasting 15-30 minutes, more than a drive by. Finds out car is towed. Pings down South by tow yard (trying to get to Caylee in trunk) can't tell anyone "hey my kid is drugged in the trunk so I need my car"...Caylee perishes before she can get to her and could be mom and dad's fault because they waited so long to get the car back!!!

By the time KC could get to the car, baby Caylee had perished in the heat (2.6 days from 27th to 30th), etc. at the tow yard - leaking, smell, get body out of trunk and into whatever container and dump...throw bag of trash in trunk to try to explain and cover smell? Use Tony's jeep to get rid of body in sealed container (Rubbermaid storage bin? Suitcase? whatever) so no leaking or smell in his jeep - car wash before getting him at airport, just in case....

Does this work? I think I have holes but just an idea...