PA - Kenzie Houk, 26, pregnant, murdered, Wampum, 20 Feb 2009

This is so sad. I understand the boy being jealous but how does a child learn to murder their "rival"?
 
From the updated articles Ive read, the boy used his own gun. Ive also read , it seems like some of the family members knew he was jealous and or very upset about this.
He's also being charged as an adult.

Also just curious....why is the media putting the boys full name out there ? I didn't the media released minors' names.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_...boy_11_charged_with_killing_fathers_fian.html


I think it is because he is being tried as an adult. The names of Derek and Alex King was in the media and so was Chris Pittman's name. They were tried as adults.

imoo
 
From what I have read he is charged with double homicide.imo
 
From the updated articles Ive read, the boy used his own gun. Ive also read , it seems like some of the family members knew he was jealous and or very upset about this.
He's also being charged as an adult.

Also just curious....why is the media putting the boys full name out there ? I didnt the media released minors' names.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_...boy_11_charged_with_killing_fathers_fian.html

Some of the "comments" at one of the articles didn't sit well with me. I am not against children learning to hunt, I am not against children "owning guns" (with the proper safeguards of course). Some of the comments were focused on some stuff that I didn't feel were "the issue at hand".

I wonder about the family "realizing" that this boys jealousy was so intense? Since they knew the jealousy existed, did they not pursue it? Was the boy unreachable?

Such a tragedy...
 
Some of the "comments" at one of the articles didn't sit well with me. I am not against children learning to hunt, I am not against children "owning guns" (with the proper safeguards of course). Some of the comments were focused on some stuff that I didn't feel were "the issue at hand".

I wonder about the family "realizing" that this boys jealousy was so intense? Since they knew the jealousy existed, did they not pursue it? Was the boy unreachable?

Such a tragedy...

Pursue it how? How? Many kids get jealous over a new sibling. Most parents simply make an extra effort to comfort and prepare. Who would ever think it possible this would be the result?
 
Pursue it how? How? Many kids get jealous over a new sibling. Most parents simply make an extra effort to comfort and prepare. Who would ever think it possible this would be the result?

Pursuing it by means of talking it out with him or counseling. I'm not saying it works in all cases or any cases. Jealousy to this extreme is just hard for me to grasp. I've seen sibling rivalry "at it's finest", I've seen and experienced jealousy, and as you say, "Who would ever think it's possible that this would be the result?", I could only answer that maybe I am one person who thinks if a child shows signs of jealousy, maybe, just maybe it can be somehow averted? I don't have the ANSWERS, I am just full of questions.

Perhaps I am just a simple minded person?
 
I wonder if the boy had behavior problems at school, any learning disorders or ADD, other behaviors, or had been in trouble and gotten grounded that day? I'll never believe that children just suddenly become murderers without being mentally ill unless the child being very impulsive and having ready access to firearms and ammunition has something to do with the couple of recent killings involving little boys.
 
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"To many people, the idea of a child psychopath is almost unthinkable. But the fact is, true psychopaths are born, not made. Oh, indeed, there is the psychopath that is "made," but they are generally different from the born psychopath in a number of ways.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The fact is, clinical research clearly demonstrates that psychopathy does not spring unannounced into existence in adulthood"[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"The last decade has seen the emergence of an inescapable and terrifying reality: a dramatic surge of juvenile crime that threatens to overwhelm our social institutions. Children under the age of ten who are capable of the sort of mindless violence that once was reserved for hardened adult criminals. At this writing, a small town in a western state is frantically searching for ways to deal with a nine-year-old who allegedly rapes and molests other children at knife point. He is too young to be charged and cannot be taken into care because "such action may only be taken when the child is in danger, not his victims," according to a child protection official. ~Dr. Robert Hare[/FONT]
 
There is the possibility that this boy's dad and him have talked about the way he felt about the coming baby boy. The couple also could have felt that after the baby was born and this boy was included in doing for the baby and holding it...growing to love it everything would work out.

That is pretty cold to just go on and go to school like nothing had happened. Even taking the mom's older daughter to the bus stop with him. He must not have been jealous of the girls. I guess he thought a baby boy would end up taking his place with his dad. The whole thing is really sad.
 
Police say Houk's 5-year-old daughter found her mother's body Friday morning in a bedroom of their home in the community of Wampum.

:( this is so so sad , I cant imagine how hard it would have been for the daughter to find her mother shot

Cops said Jordan shot Houk once in the head sometime between 7 a.m. and 8 a.m. with his youth-model shotgun - which he had used to win a turkey at a local shooting competition two weeks earlier.

He then left the house as if nothing had happened and caught the bus to school with Houk's 8-year-old daughter, police and relatives said.

The girl later told police what Jordan had done.

"She heard the blast and saw him with the gun," said Ignatz

How does a CHILD get to own a gun anyway ?

Here we have strict rules. You have to have a gun license and only available through stringent and strict testing and valid reasons
And you have to be an adult
And you have to have it in a Gun cabinet Bolted to the floor and Wall AND The police have to come and Inspect it and ensure that it is compliant !!!!

Im sorry but I don't believe in the USA's "allowed to bear arms" policy

And this is a prime example of why
 
:( this is so so sad , I cant imagine how hard it would have been for the daughter to find her mother shot



How does a CHILD get to own a gun anyway ?

Here we have strict rules. You have to have a gun license and only available through stringent and strict testing and valid reasons
And you have to be an adult
And you have to have it in a Gun cabinet Bolted to the floor and Wall AND The police have to come and Inspect it and ensure that it is compliant !!!!

Im sorry but I don't believe in the USA's "allowed to bear arms" policy

And this is a prime example of why

What state do you live in?

He did not legally own the gun. I expect it was a youth model .410 shotgun that he may have used when he went hunting with his dad for, most
likely, bird shoots.

Most states do not have laws that requires a weapon must be locked up and most states you do not have to have a long gun registered. Most states agrees that if one has a locked weapon they cannot have assess to it quick enough if they have an intruder in their home with the intent to do harm or worse.

They will never take away the rights to bear arms imo and this is why.

http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0210e.asp

Justice Department shows that between 1.5 and 3 million people in the United States use a firearm to defend themselves and others from criminals each year. A 1986 study by Hart Research Associates puts the upper limit at 3.2 million.

Those studies and others indicate that often the mere sight of a firearm discourages an attacker. Criminologist John Lott from the University of Florida found that 98 percent of the time when people use guns defensively, simply brandishing a firearm is sufficient to cause a criminal to break off an attack. Lott also found that in less than 2 percent of the cases is the gun fired, and three-fourths of those are warning shots.
********************

The gun was intended to hunt small game. It is always the mindset of the person that is intent on making it a weapon against human beings. The gun would have laid there collecting dust and dirt if the boy did not pick it up for the sole purpose to kill two human beings.

Legal gunowners stop more crime than the police because the police are called after the criminal act has already happened and the damage to the victims already done.

imoo
 
What state do you live in?

He did not legally own the gun. I expect it was a youth model .410 shotgun that he may have used when he went hunting with his dad for, most
likely, bird shoots.

Most states do not have laws that requires a weapon must be locked up and most states you do not have to have a long gun registered. Most states agrees that if one has a locked weapon they cannot have assess to it quick enough if they have an intruder in their home with the intent to do harm or worse.

They will never take away the rights to bear arms imo and this is why.

http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0210e.asp

Justice Department shows that between 1.5 and 3 million people in the United States use a firearm to defend themselves and others from criminals each year. A 1986 study by Hart Research Associates puts the upper limit at 3.2 million.

Those studies and others indicate that often the mere sight of a firearm discourages an attacker. Criminologist John Lott from the University of Florida found that 98 percent of the time when people use guns defensively, simply brandishing a firearm is sufficient to cause a criminal to break off an attack. Lott also found that in less than 2 percent of the cases is the gun fired, and three-fourths of those are warning shots.
********************

The gun was intended to hunt small game. It is always the mindset of the person that is intent on making it a weapon against human beings. The gun would have laid there collecting dust and dirt if the boy did not pick it up for the sole purpose to kill two human beings.

Legal gunowners stop more crime than the police because the police are called after the criminal act has already happened and the damage to the victims already done.

imoo

Bold and underlined mine - I live in Australia :)

Here is some info regarding gun control in Oz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia

HEre is a good article on the results of Gun controlin our Country

http://www.crikey.com.au/Politics/20080909-Speech-notes-that-Sarah-Palin-will-never-consult.html

SNIPPED
Gun deaths in Australia are dominated by suicides, with about 79% of all gun fatalities, followed by 15% homicides and 2% unintentional shootings. Suicide with guns has what coroners euphemistically call a very high "completion rate". When those attempting suicide use a gun, they don't need a semi-automatic. The trigger gets pulled once, so a single shot suffices, from any gun that remained unaffected by the law reforms. So by removing only semi-automatics, we really wouldn’t expect any decline in gun suicides.

Yet as with gun homicides, firearm suicides in males declined from 3.4 deaths per 100,000 person years in 1997 to 1.3 per 100,000, a decline of 59.9%. The rate of all other suicides declined from 19.9 deaths per 100,000 in 1997 to 15.0 per 100,000 in 2005, a 24.5% decline, less than half that for gun suicides.

Having more guns around seems to be associated with more gun suicides, and more suicides overall. A paper published in this week’s prestigious New England Journal of Medicine compares gun suicide rates in the 15 US states with the highest rate (47%) of household ownership with six states with the lowest rates (15%). While the rates of non-firearm suicide were equal in these two groups, the states with high gun ownership had 3.7 times more male gun suicides and 7.9 times more female gun suicides than the low gun ownership states.

The USA has 14.3 times Australia’s population, 104 times our total firearm-caused deaths (30,143 in 2005 vs 289 in 2003), and 294 times Australia’s firearm homicide rate (12,352 in 2005 vs just 42 in 2005/06). In 1979, 705 people died from gunshots in Australia. Despite population growth, in 2003, this number had fallen to 289.

Gun lobby affiliated researchers in Australia have sought to repudiate these outcomes using embarrassingly naïve methods that have been heavily criticised in the research literature. While news of the latest gun massacre in the United States remains depressingly common, Australians today enjoy one of the safest communities on earth. John Howard’s first and most popular law reform stands as the world’s most successful reform of gun laws.


ETA : with respect :) that article you cite is 7 years old..And clearly it is from a PRO GUN GROUP that is interested in "limited government" that lobby's people and even advocates GUNS IN CHURCHES :eek:
http://www.fff.org/comment/com0902i.asp


And this http://www.fff.org/comment/com0902c.asp

snipped

Americans today are stockpiling weapons and ammunition. Let’s hope that an aggressive new attorney general eager to push his boss’s socialist economic agenda and his own anti-gun agenda doesn’t push things over the edge.

Stockpiling weapons and ammo :( :eek: heaven help America
 
Bold and underlined mine - I live in Australia :)

Here is some info regarding gun control in Oz

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Australia

HEre is a good article on the results of Gun controlin our Country

http://www.crikey.com.au/Politics/20080909-Speech-notes-that-Sarah-Palin-will-never-consult.html

SNIPPED



ETA : with respect :) that article you cite is 7 years old..And clearly it is from a PRO GUN GROUP that is interested in "limited government" that lobby's people and even advocates GUNS IN CHURCHES :eek:
http://www.fff.org/comment/com0902i.asp


And this http://www.fff.org/comment/com0902c.asp

snipped



Stockpiling weapons and ammo :( :eek: heaven help America

As an American, I agree with you in part. My parents are from Europe, Spain and Holland respectively, although my mom called Perth home for 7 years after WWII. She loved it and my uncle died a citizen of Australia. Anyhow, we have relatives in all three countries and visit all 3. Based on personal experience and accounts from newspapers, relatives and friends in those countries, the rates of homicides from guns and other gun-related deaths, in relation to the populations, is far, far lower than in the U.S. I remember one of my cousins coming here to visit from Spain and seeing six, that's right, six different shootings on the news in one day, on one of the first few days she was here. Poor girl was afraid to leave the house after that. It just doesn't happen in most of Europe like it does here.
But, is it the result of access to guns? Canada has more guns per person than the U.S. and yet, they too have far less guns deaths when comparing their population to ours.
I have a bachelor's degree in American Studies and know alot about the American psyche, culture and sociology of this nation. I think gun ownership and violence are part of our history. It's ingrained. The Western mythology of the tough, proud, self-sufficient, independent cowboy who only needs his gun and a horse and who cannot rely in government to solve his problems or keep his family safe, and who is not afraid of carnage, is part of the blood of the people here. I don't think that's going to change anytime soon. So, I am against many gun control laws for the simple reason that it won't work here, IMO. It's a waste of time to try.
 

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