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Ravyn

Ravyn

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Have anyone here read Tricia's post Bonita Papers on FFJ..Though that I found out the JBR did sleep in BR's bedroom on Christmas eve so now I know why there was little creatine/unrine on her sheets,and we here decided she never went to her bed on the 25th... Now I feel safe to say JBR wet her bed on the 23th..And about the hair, I think her last performance was with the American Kids and her hair looks really blond and the photos from the Christmas party on the 23th and on Christmas morning JBR hair looks to be brownish blond..
 
Hello

Thank you for posting this. I am interested in the JBR case. I have no idea of what you are speaking(my ignorance). I would love it if you would post again. So, we are saying that JB was not sleeping in her own bedroom the night she was killed? If I have this all wrong, I apologize.

Thank you for your time.
 
Chiquita71 said:
Hello

Thank you for posting this. I am interested in the JBR case. I have no idea of what you are speaking(my ignorance). I would love it if you would post again. So, we are saying that JB was not sleeping in her own bedroom the night she was killed? If I have this all wrong, I apologize.

Thank you for your time.
Click to expand...

She did not sleep in her bed on Christmas EVE. She was killed the next night (Christmas night). As far as we all know, she slept in her own bed the night that she was killed....IF she even made it to bed at all.
 
Ames said:
She did not sleep in her bed on Christmas EVE. She was killed the next night (Christmas night). As far as we all know, she slept in her own bed the night that she was killed....IF she even made it to bed at all.
Click to expand...

After rereading the LE interview of PR (I think it was the one in 06/97) I am leaning towards JBR never being in her bed that night. When PR was shown photo's of the bedroom she verifies that the pjs on the bed are the ones JBR wore on Christmas morning. She also verified that the Xmas sweater laying at the bottom of the bed was JBR's. What parent would put their child to bed at night and not remove items laying on the bed? How much effort would it have taken to gather up the pjs and sweater and toss them to the other bed or floor? Another thing is if the pjs were right there on the bed, then why would PR have not just grabbed them to put on a sleeping JBR? She never saw them on the bed, right beside a sleeping JBR, because PR was not in the room that night.

Another thing I read in that interview was that JBR's coat was still in the jaguar. (LE showed PR a pic of the jag with the coat still in it and asked her if thats the coat that JBR wore that night) I always thought that JR had said he carried a sleeping JBR in the house, up the stairs and laid her on her bed. Then he removed her coat and shoes. Anyone remember?
 
Zak said:
After rereading the LE interview of PR (I think it was the one in 06/97) I am leaning towards JBR never being in her bed that night. When PR was shown photo's of the bedroom she verifies that the pjs on the bed are the ones JBR wore on Christmas morning. She also verified that the Xmas sweater laying at the bottom of the bed was JBR's. What parent would put their child to bed at night and not remove items laying on the bed? How much effort would it have taken to gather up the pjs and sweater and toss them to the other bed or floor? Another thing is if the pjs were right there on the bed, then why would PR have not just grabbed them to put on a sleeping JBR? She never saw them on the bed, right beside a sleeping JBR, because PR was not in the room that night.

Another thing I read in that interview was that JBR's coat was still in the jaguar. (LE showed PR a pic of the jag with the coat still in it and asked her if thats the coat that JBR wore that night) I always thought that JR had said he carried a sleeping JBR in the house, up the stairs and laid her on her bed. Then he removed her coat and shoes. Anyone remember? [/quote]
====================================================================
Yep! I have posted about this before..a long time ago. How did John remove JB's coat, if it was in the car? Kinda hard to do...
I am going to go back and re-read that interview.

JOHN RAMSEY: I believe so, as I recall,
9 yeah.
10 So, anyway, I took her upstairs, laid her on the
11 bed. Usually what I would do, and I remember
12 either taking her shoes off or taking her coat
13 off, kind of getting her sort of started and then
14 Patsy took over getting her into bed. I went down
15 stairs --

===================================

He can't remember if it was her shoes or her coat that he took off? I think that I would remember the last thing that I did for my child, before they died.
Click to expand...
 
Chiquita71 said:
Hello

Thank you for posting this. I am interested in the JBR case. I have no idea of what you are speaking(my ignorance). I would love it if you would post again. So, we are saying that JB was not sleeping in her own bedroom the night she was killed? If I have this all wrong, I apologize.

Thank you for your time.
Click to expand...

There's lots for you to read. It'll help you get a good grasp of this case. May I suggest this site?: http://www.acandyrose.com

Take your time -it's all there. Pictures, autopsy report, interviews. It saves having to post the same things over and over again, though we are always happy to answer questions.
 
Looking at the bed it's apparent to me that she never slept there Christmas night. The only way I could see it possible is if JB fell asleep watching TV with her head on her pillow at the foot of the bed. My little girl watches TV in her room like this. But what parent that you know would put their sleeping child in bed with their head just on the mattress? OR backward so the blankets couldn't be pulled up on the child.? No. If the pillow was at the end of the bed before , most parents would lie the child down and while holding the head up retrieve the pillow and place it under their head... then put the childs head on it and pull the blankets up over the child. Most of us would have rmoved all of the other stuff from the bed as well, but not even considering that (some people are messier than others), it makes no sense to put a child to bed with the pillow like that.
 
Most agree JBR probably didn't go to bed that night. PR also admitted under questioning that the bed looked like it had been made up without JBR's blanket (which was found wrapped around her body). Police discussed with Patsy the fact that although the head of the bed was unmade (a usual occurrence unless housekeeper LHP was there to make it) and that the bottom appeared undisturbed; they got her to admit that it didn't look as if anyone could have removed the blanket from the bed without disturbing that part of the bed.
Clothes were always strewn about- not necessarily in preparation for the trip. LHP said the family was very messy- they did not even own a hamper and clothing was dumped on the floor or wherever was handy.
One of the sweaters on JBR's bed was a sweater belonging to Patsy, which she lent to LHP's daughter Ariana on the day of the Ramsey Christmas party Dec. 23. Ariana was there that day with her mother LHP, who was helping with party preparations. Patsy invited them to stay for the party so Ariana could see Santa (Bill McReynolds) and because she wasn't wearing anything more festive, Patsy lent her a holiday sweater.
 
DeeDee249 said:
Most agree JBR probably didn't go to bed that night. PR also admitted under questioning that the bed looked like it had been made up without JBR's blanket (which was found wrapped around her body). Police discussed with Patsy the fact that although the head of the bed was unmade (a usual occurrence unless housekeeper LHP was there to make it) and that the bottom appeared undisturbed; they got her to admit that it didn't look as if anyone could have removed the blanket from the bed without disturbing that part of the bed.
Clothes were always strewn about- not necessarily in preparation for the trip. LHP said the family was very messy- they did not even own a hamper and clothing was dumped on the floor or wherever was handy.
One of the sweaters on JBR's bed was a sweater belonging to Patsy, which she lent to LHP's daughter Ariana on the day of the Ramsey Christmas party Dec. 23. Ariana was there that day with her mother LHP, who was helping with party preparations. Patsy invited them to stay for the party so Ariana could see Santa (Bill McReynolds) and because she wasn't wearing anything more festive, Patsy lent her a holiday sweater.
Click to expand...

The sentence in red was done by me. Thats what I always thought, the sweater on the end of JBR's bed was the Christmas sweater that PR lent to Ariana. In PR's 6/98 interview with LE she states the following:



19 THOMAS HANEY: Anything else that

20 shows in that?

21 Okay. How about number 2?

22 PATSY RAMSEY: Oh, see, that's the

23 pillow there.

24 THOMAS HANEY: Okay.

25 PATSY RAMSEY: Her Christmas

0243

1 sweater.
2 THOMAS HANEY: When is the last

3 time she wore the Christmas sweater?

4 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know

5 exactly.

6 THOMAS HANEY: Would that be where

7 it would end up?

8 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum.

9 THOMAS HANEY: So not unusual?

10 PATSY RAMSEY: No.


I think that it may have been JR that identified that sweater as PR's, but PR clearly identifies it as JBR's. That leads me to believe that this is the sweater that PR wanted JBR to wear to the Whites on Christmas day and PR must have had a matching one. (JBR argued with PR and refused to wear it to match her mom.)
 
I don't think they argued about the Christmas sweater, though JBR may have certainly owned one. What they argued about was this: Patsy wore the black velvet jeans, red sweater and black/red/white fleece jacket to the White's Christmas Day (and was still wearing it when LE came to the door around
6 am Dec. 26 after the 911 call). Patsy had bought JBR an outfit at Gap consisting of black velvet pants, black velvet vest and white sweatshirt with a silver sequin star. (this was the sweatshirt she was found in). JBR wanted to wear this, but Patsy wanted her to wear a red turtleneck instead of the white shirt so they would have matching outfits. At first, Patsy tried to say that JBR did wear the red turtleneck to the White's, intimating that she had no idea who put that white shirt on her). When confronted with actual photos from the White's Christmas dinner, it showed JBR wearing the white star shirt. Patsy then admitted that she had allowed JBR to wear the white shirt after all. The public has never seen those photos, they remain in the hands of LE.
 
DeeDee249 said:
I don't think they argued about the Christmas sweater, though JBR may have certainly owned one. What they argued about was this: Patsy wore the black velvet jeans, red sweater and black/red/white fleece jacket to the White's Christmas Day (and was still wearing it when LE came to the door around
6 am Dec. 26 after the 911 call). Patsy had bought JBR an outfit at Gap consisting of black velvet pants, black velvet vest and white sweatshirt with a silver sequin star. (this was the sweatshirt she was found in). JBR wanted to wear this, but Patsy wanted her to wear a red turtleneck instead of the white shirt so they would have matching outfits. At first, Patsy tried to say that JBR did wear the red turtleneck to the White's, intimating that she had no idea who put that white shirt on her). When confronted with actual photos from the White's Christmas dinner, it showed JBR wearing the white star shirt. Patsy then admitted that she had allowed JBR to wear the white shirt after all. The public has never seen those photos, they remain in the hands of LE.
Click to expand...


(Snip respect DeeDee):)


Why would Patsy say JonBenet was wearing a red top when she was not?


Thanks for the "acandyrose" link. I have read much on this case but not near what I know y'all have done. I will make much use of that link but I am also happy to lurk on this thread and listen to what you all have to say.:woohoo:

...jmo...I:blowkiss:WS
 
Chiquita71 said:
(Snip respect DeeDee):)


Why would Patsy say JonBenet was wearing a red top when she was not?


Thanks for the "acandyrose" link. I have read much on this case but not near what I know y'all have done. I will make much use of that link but I am also happy to lurk on this thread and listen to what you all have to say.:woohoo:

...jmo...I:blowkiss:WS
Click to expand...

Patsy may have wanted it believed that someone else (the killer/intruder) dressed JBR in that white shirt when they killed her. Of course, what reason would a kidnapper have to do that? That red turtleneck was found balled up (and I believe soaking?) in a sink just outside JBR's bedroom. Some people believe she was changed into that red top when they got home to save time getting ready for the flight to Charlevoix early the next day. And that JBR wet or soiled herself after refusing to go to the bathroom when prompted, and her mother "lost it"- resulting in the fatal head bash. One explanation for Patsy wanting to say JBR wore the red shirt is she could explain why it was found balled up and in the sink by saying she may have gotten it soiled at the party rather than she soiled or wet it in a toileting accident (which might provoke thoughts of "toilet rage" accusations).
The Rs BOTH made every attempt to distance themselves from the events of that night- they denied giving her a simple bedtime snack, denied owning a BOWL that clearly belonged to them, denied owning a BOX of TISSUES on the table- Why? It is so obvious and ridiculous. They needed to stick to their story about JBR being carried asleep into the house asleep (when their own son told LE his sister walked into the house). Their story was that she was asleep when they went into the house and she stayed asleep. They claim they never saw her alive again. That's why they lied about so many seemingly innocent things.
 
Chiquita71 said:
(Snip respect DeeDee):)

Why would Patsy say JonBenet was wearing a red top when she was not?

...jmo...I:blowkiss:WS
Click to expand...
It looks like she said that at an early stage, where the truth slipped out of her mouth before she put her story completely together.
When later realizing that redressing JonBenet in the red turtleneck top did not mesh with the story of putting a fast-asleep child to bed, it became "JonBenet was put to bed asleep still wearing the Gap shirt from the White's party".

I can't understand why NO official interviewer got the idea to ask Patsy why she changed her story on that.
 
Now since LHP said that those was not the sheets she put on the bed on the 23th, so I was wondering if JB did lay in on the 25th cause she didn't feel good if she could had wet the bed then, would that still be the amount of creatine/ unrine, or could LHP been scared to tell the truth about the sheets cause she was already pointed as a supect by PR. Cause JB pillow could had be placed like that on the 25th while laying there watching T.V cause she wasn't feeling well. The only reason I asked about LHP again cause of this touch DNA you all talking about..
 
Now this really been bugging me and I like some input plz.. Now if JR called Mike Archueta at 1:30 pm on the 26 th to get the plane ready for Atlanta and JAR and MR took a Delta flight to MI how did they get there at the house before 2: 00pm by Taxi so help me understand this one....
 
Ravyn said:
Now this really been bugging me and I like some input plz.. Now if JR called Mike Archueta at 1:30 pm on the 26 th to get the plane ready for Atlanta and JAR and MR took a Delta flight to MI how did they get there at the house before 2: 00pm by Taxi so help me understand this one....
Click to expand...

Therein lies the mystery of how much Mike knew and when, and JAR's true whereabouts.
 
Well the R's said that they was leaving at 7:00 am and when he called MA he was in transit and if I'm correct this means flying.. And if MA is their private pilot woudn't he be ready to go with the R's so this as open the door to make me wonder if MA was taking JAR to Atlanta at that time but in the Bonita Papers from Tricia states that JAR and MR was flew by private jet to MI but then if not if they went by Delta Air Lines still how did they get to Colorado by 2:00Pm but the main thing when JR called MA was in transit.
 
Ravyn said:
Now this really been bugging me and I like some input plz.. Now if JR called Mike Archueta at 1:30 pm on the 26 th to get the plane ready for Atlanta and JAR and MR took a Delta flight to MI how did they get there at the house before 2: 00pm by Taxi so help me understand this one....
Click to expand...
That's easy. John Andrew, Melinda, and Stewart arrive at the Minneapolis-St. Paul airport around 11 a.m. CT/10 a.m. MT Mike Archuleta calls them and Stewart calls the Ramsey house. (This is when John is down in the basement and says to Stewart "I found her." This is information he relayed to Steve Thomas.) The three take the first available flight out of Minneapolis to Denver. United Airlines has a flight which departs at noon CT and arrives in Denver at 1 p.m. MT. Then after they got their luggage, they took a taxi to the house and got there around 2 p.m.

http://travel.united.com/ube/shopAirportCitySearch.do?waitingPageFlag=true
 
I just realized that the link timed out, but here is the flight info-

12:00 PM MSP – 1:03 PM DEN
United 443
LA14ON13
View seats





 
Ok thank you, but if they called him at 11:00 am their time and looking at the timezones times well that would work out that JR was in the basement at 10:00 am Boulder's time cause Boulder is an hour behind Minneapolis.
 
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