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  1. #1111
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryG12 View Post
    I remember when Natalie Wood died - 1981, marked my first year in high school, and Robert Wagner was at the height of his career on "Hart to Hart" - my family used to watch that show all the time.

    It would not surprise me if hush money was involved at some point soon after Natalie's death because if RW did have any sort of involvement in her death it would have been the end of his career in Hollywood.

    FWIW Hollywood has always had its share of scandals since its inception, such as Roscoe "Fatty Arbuckle".
    But Fatty Arbuckle was innocent.

  2. #1112
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulR View Post
    Not quite. The captain of a ship has an obligation to rescue, he or she is responsible for the passengers on the ship, for instance. If you remember that case about the Italian ship captain taking the life boat while the ship sank, that's why he got prosecuted. The article talks about these duties. It's not about the duty of other passengers on the ship. Part of that is because the crew of the ship is also trained in proper rescue procedure which includes not getting into even more trouble because there are now two people who need rescuing instead of one.
    1) the CC was a cruiseship owned by a large international conglomerant. hardly the same thing as a privately owned yacht. apple and oranges.
    2) i don't think there is any need to quibble over the word "captain". this was done earlier in the thread. davern was the employee. he wasn't in charge like schettino was
    3) from wagner's own lips

    “Did I blame myself?” he wrote. “If I had been there, I could have done something. But I wasn’t there. I didn’t see her. The door was closed; I thought she was [below decks]. I didn’t hear anything. But ultimately, a man is responsible for his loved one, and she was my loved one.”
    http://people.com/crime/natalie-wood...investigation/
    *** THIS POST IS JMO (unless a link is provided) AND IS ONLY FOR USE ON WEBSLEUTHS -- PLEASE DO NOT LINK OR COPY IT ELSEWHERE ***

  3. #1113
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    CA - Natalie Wood, 43, drowned off California coast, 29 Nov 1981

    I used to Love watching Natalie Wood and in turn Robert Wagner, but after Natalie’s death I soured on him, because everyone kind of knew he did it, but then LE didn’t do anything about it..(Yes, I get that they likely had no evidence to convict, etc).., but I was so young I didn’t know all of that..*shrugs*

    I’ve always thought it pretty clear that R.W. killed her..(he was a big philanderer), and he was super jelly of Christopher W’s acting with Natalie in their recent movie (scanners or something)..and then C.W.’s trying to get Natalie Wood to Step up & Shine (& not worry about her dang controlling her career husband)...

    Now was there a thing between the two? Christopher Watkins & Natalie Wood...Umm..*shrugs* I dunno (He’s a cool actor and all that, but C.W’s is a royal Nutter!..*laughs*.. and has only gotten further out there over the years...seriously, have you ever watched a candid interview with him??.*laughs*...there’s an obvious reason that the studios don’t really send him to do movie promos!..*laughs hard*..)......so I could see C.W. looking at N.W. possibly in an attracted way..maybe..(it’s logical, but gut feels like it is a stretch, I’m still not convince CW is straight) ...so, even innocently as a big brother encouraging a wounded, fragile bird...and I think that Natalie Wood likely responded to his kindness and encouragement...maybe not sexually, but in more of a growing confidence level, and to Natalie stretching her wings as an individual and person kind of way, and in my mind...

    Also, with C.W. Remember that he was an new Star rising ...and that R.W. was long time Hollywood, with Powerful pull at the studios...the metoo movement is a snowflake in a snow storm in comparison to the pull stars had back then, AND, also remember it was only recently within the last, what 10yrs that local CA law enforcement went thru a change in policy where they stopped giving ‘stars’ total preferential treatment, kid gloves & white glove service for fear of the hollywood studios money, power, and political influence..Hollywood of that day has carte blanche... Also keep in mind, Natalie’s death since she died, has continuously been trotted out every few years, it gets coverage, R.W. gets asked about it or raked over the coals about it, but then nothing is done..maybe a little info here or there, and some lone investigator looks into the details for a story, which seems to inflame people, but then ultimately, everything just goes back to silence with nothing legally done..again...(*and again, and again, *repeat)

    So, my thoughts are that When R.W. & C.W. were on the boat, and R.W. (drunk that he was), started to get all belligerent towards both C.W. & Natalie, and R.W. Started tossing around accusations and likely awful words about C.W.& Natalie sexually & an affair....

    ...I think Natalie Wood for the 1st time in a ages...stood up for herself w/her Bullying..and if that were the case then...yeah, I think R&W...did it...

    ...and I think R.W. pressured C.W. into keeping his silence, because R.W. was in a position star power wise (& financially) that he could ruin C.W.’s career, so I think C.W. kept silent..but, I also think that his star power is such now that he can stand on his own two feet and no longer fears R.W. can ruin him...so, he is speaking up, is slowly, and to hide his own culpability..(imho)

    That’s my take on it all at least...I feel Sorry for Natalie, and I feel Sorry for her kids who he had custody over, and were raised knowing that he killed their mum (imho), that’s a terrible complicated level of guilt & love...(guilt I’m sure, for loving the man who they know in their hearts killed their mum, but at the same time, he was the man who raised them)...again, just my opinion & theory..

    I hope that one day, Natalie will finally get some justice, but regardless, I hope that she is resting in peace...

    ***Note:The above is only my own opinions, thoughts, theories, views, and possible BIG Fish Tales; unless otherwise indicated by a website URL and/or reference to a direct origin source..Thanks!
    The TRUTH WILL OUT!, and There will be a Reckoning, in this Life or the Next!
    The TRUTH WILL OUT & THERE WILL BE A RECKONING, in this Life or the Next!!!

  4. #1114
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    Quote Originally Posted by redheadedgal View Post
    1) the CC was a cruiseship owned by a large international conglomerant. hardly the same thing as a privately owned yacht. apple and oranges.
    2) i don't think there is any need to quibble over the word "captain". this was done earlier in the thread. davern was the employee. he wasn't in charge like schettino was
    3) from wagner's own lips



    http://people.com/crime/natalie-wood...investigation/
    I don't think it matters whether the ship was owned by a corporation or by a few people. The captain is still held responsible for the safety of the people on the ship. There's lots of reasons for this, but it comes down to training: a captain knows what to look out, for instance, when it comes to weather ("a storm of this type is coming, we should head back to port or safe harbor.") They know how to run the ship, they know the best way to rescue people if they fall into the water. That's why you hire a captain for your ship.

    Looking at this site (https://www.mptusa.com/captains-license.cfm) I see that training for a ship's captain to be Coast Guard certified includes:
    navigation
    tidal calculations
    international and inland rules of the road
    coastal pilotage
    meteorology
    anchoring and mooring
    marlinespike
    docking and undocking
    buoyage systems
    safety
    voyage and passage planning
    general ship knowledge regulations
    stability and vessel construction
    seamanship
    I doubt RW had that knowledge. I doubt NW had that knowledge. That's why Davern was hired, to do that work for them. Also, and let's be honest, so they could drink and enjoy themselves, just like you may have a drink on a plane because you know the flight crew is flying the plane and has your back.

    Davern's claim, from what I understand, is that he either knew or suspected that NW was drowning. If his responsibility are to people on the ship, then he should have rescued NW. If his responsibility are to the owners of the ship, then he should also have rescued NW.

    I'll say that even if RW pushed NW into the water, which we don't know at this point but let's say it's true, Davern still had a responsibility to rescue her.

    Does RW say he blames himself? Yes. I wrote an earlier post that I deleted, but I think a lot of us that have lost loved ones blame ourselves even if there was nothing we could do. RW was probably drunk by the time NW was in the water. As far as I can tell, he was not a trained lifeguard earlier in his life, or then. If he jumped into the water after her, Davern would have needed to rescue two people, not one. It's like having a loved one who got lost in the woods; sure, it's one thing to say "I'm going to go back into the woods and find them", but search-and-rescue is best left to people who are trained to do it. I say this as someone who attended orientation for a local SAR group and realized that it was something that physically I couldn't do. So in the end, that person going back into the woods to find their loved one will probably not find them and will require rescuing themselves. So we leave it to the people trained to do it, the "professionals" so to speak - and the professional in this case was Davern.

    I think Davern has tremendous guilt about what happened that night. Trying to shift blame is also natural and expected. That doesn't excuse it.

  5. #1115
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    How could a Captain of the ship have prevented one passenger from killing another? To assume that he could is patently ridiculous, IMO! The Captain couldn't possibly guarantee a passenger's safety from another!

    **IMO, I do think RW was jealous of CW. RW and NW could have been having a disagreement over CW and he could have pushed her overboard.

    I believe CW knows what happened. He needs to tell it if he does.

    JMHO
    Thoughts and prayers for the people of Paris and all of France!


  6. #1116
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulR View Post
    I don't think it matters whether the ship was owned by a corporation or by a few people. The captain is still held responsible for the safety of the people on the ship. There's lots of reasons for this, but it comes down to training: a captain knows what to look out, for instance, when it comes to weather ("a storm of this type is coming, we should head back to port or safe harbor.") They know how to run the ship, they know the best way to rescue people if they fall into the water. That's why you hire a captain for your ship.

    Looking at this site (https://www.mptusa.com/captains-license.cfm) I see that training for a ship's captain to be Coast Guard certified includes:
    please provide a cite (aka proof) for your assertion davern had an official "captains license" for the state of CA and was acting under it when he was aboard the wagner's boat that night (which will prove he wasn't merely an employee tasked to drive the yacht and maintain it [hence being called it's "captain" informally which the media picked up and has continued to use all this time later] as many of us understand to be the case). tia.
    *** THIS POST IS JMO (unless a link is provided) AND IS ONLY FOR USE ON WEBSLEUTHS -- PLEASE DO NOT LINK OR COPY IT ELSEWHERE ***

  7. #1117
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaLaw2000 View Post
    How could a Captain of the ship have prevented one passenger from killing another? To assume that he could is patently ridiculous, IMO! The Captain couldn't possibly guarantee a passenger's safety from another!

    **IMO, I do think RW was jealous of CW. RW and NW could have been having a disagreement over CW and he could have pushed her overboard.

    I believe CW knows what happened. He needs to tell it if he does.

    JMHO
    Exactly & in some articles he is called the “Skipper” of RJ & NWs boat
    so this subject of Captain maritime rule is mute. JMO
    Last edited by BeachSky; 02-20-2018 at 11:18 AM.





  8. #1118
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaLaw2000 View Post
    How could a Captain of the ship have prevented one passenger from killing another? To assume that he could is patently ridiculous, IMO! The Captain couldn't possibly guarantee a passenger's safety from another!
    Call in and organize a rescue of NW once she was drowning, which may include jumping in the water himself. If he did see violence between RW and NW, then call the police using ship-to-shore radio, just like you can call in a domestic violence incident that you witness. Only with Davern, it was his duty.

    Quote Originally Posted by redheadedgal View Post
    please provide a cite (aka proof) for your assertion davern had an official "captains license" for the state of CA and was acting under it when he was aboard the wagner's boat that night (which will prove he wasn't merely an employee tasked to drive the yacht and maintain it [hence being called it's "captain" informally which the media picked up and has continued to use all this time later] as many of us understand to be the case). tia.
    The MSM has widely reported him to be a captain, the police department have referred to him as a captain. Being a captain has an actual definition and you need a license for it. Are you stating that we should not trust widespread MSM reporting on facts in this case? Or just trust the facts that we believe in and not trust the facts we don't?

  9. #1119
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    The MSM has widely reported him to be a captain, the police department have referred to him as a captain. Being a captain has an actual definition and you need a license for it. Are you stating that we should not trust widespread MSM reporting on facts in this case? Or just trust the facts that we believe in and not trust the facts we don't?
    1) he's a real licensed captain because everyone calls him "captain"? that's quite the logical fallacy. (see: circular reasoning https://web.cn.edu/kwheeler/fallacies_list.html)
    2) is duane "the rock" johnson really a rock? is "the refrigerator" perry really a fridge? yet MSM used and still uses them to refer to these men.
    3) so no actual proof he's a licensed captain then?
    Last edited by redheadedgal; 02-20-2018 at 08:29 PM. Reason: add link
    *** THIS POST IS JMO (unless a link is provided) AND IS ONLY FOR USE ON WEBSLEUTHS -- PLEASE DO NOT LINK OR COPY IT ELSEWHERE ***

  10. #1120
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    From what I have seen over the years CW has never talked publically. I think he has talked to LE and would testify if needed. My feeling is he did not see Natalies ending but witnessed everything else surrounding it.

  11. #1121
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    The “Captain” versus not a “Captain” is a moot point, as regardless, all of this is just Conjecture, and it was a Hypothetical scenario. You can either take the Man as being a Captain and look at it from that perspective for the purpose of the discussion & add your opinion about the scenario or not; however, arguing over whether the man was a Captain or not gets no one anywhere, as the topic was actually about moral, ethical, and/or duty bound sense of responsibility or actual legal responsibility if he were a captain, and the only purpose it serves to continue to argue the point of Captain vs Not Captain, is that this forum will quite likely be shut down by the Moderator, if at this point, y’all (as in you all & aka Everyone) doesn’t just let it that Captain or not Captain Issue go..and simply move on...(seen it before on many instances in various different forums)...

    I am mentioning it, because it kind of feels like we have reached the point where the whole topic in so far as Captain or Not Captain, is basically, like beating of a dead dog..pointless & an exercise in futility.

    And it is highly frustrating for everyone on the forum when the Mod comes in &Locksdown the entire Forum thread

    So, as it didn’t/doesn’t look as if that topic will cease of its own accord, I would like to ask Everyone Involved, if we could just kindly move forward and move on to another topic of discussion. Unless, with the exception of ‘captain or not captain’, there was anything else relevant to the discussion that actually remained unanswered, although I don’t believe there was...

    Thanks! Just sayin’ & trying to keep the conversation going versus all of us getting locked out.
    The TRUTH WILL OUT & THERE WILL BE A RECKONING, in this Life or the Next!!!

  12. #1122
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    NEW TOPIC (SORT OF)

    GENERAL QUESTION TO EVERYONE:

    A) Do YOU Think anything will come of this ‘reinvestigation’ this time around?..Like Prosecution or something? & Why?

    B) Do you think that like every time prior to this, that the whole thing will just FIZZLE out, Loose Steam, and Fade away? & Why?


    ***Note:The above is only my own opinions, thoughts, theories, views, and possible BIG Fish Tales; unless otherwise indicated by a website URL and/or reference to a direct origin source..Thanks!
    The TRUTH WILL OUT!, and There will be a Reckoning, in this Life or the Next!
    The TRUTH WILL OUT & THERE WILL BE A RECKONING, in this Life or the Next!!!

  13. #1123
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    Quote Originally Posted by curiosityscat
    GENERAL QUESTION TO EVERYONE:

    A) Do YOU Think anything will come of this ‘reinvestigation’ this time around?..Like Prosecution or something? & Why?

    B) Do you think that like every time prior to this, that the whole thing will just FIZZLE out, Loose Steam, and Fade away? & Why?
    I'm hoping for A. He probably won't be prosecuted with "murder" as they don't really have evidence of that, and not helping someone in distress is not punishable by law. If I remember reading that here correctly. Hoping for "some" kind of resolution for Natalie.

    ~~Life isn't about waiting for the storms to pass... It's about learning to dance in the rain!~~
    ~~We are not human beings having a spiritual experience, we are spiritual beings having a human experience!~~
    ~~Veni, Vidi, Velcro! I came, I saw, I stuck around!~~

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