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  1. #1111
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaryG12 View Post
    I remember when Natalie Wood died - 1981, marked my first year in high school, and Robert Wagner was at the height of his career on "Hart to Hart" - my family used to watch that show all the time.

    It would not surprise me if hush money was involved at some point soon after Natalie's death because if RW did have any sort of involvement in her death it would have been the end of his career in Hollywood.

    FWIW Hollywood has always had its share of scandals since its inception, such as Roscoe "Fatty Arbuckle".
    But Fatty Arbuckle was innocent.

  2. #1112
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulR View Post
    Not quite. The captain of a ship has an obligation to rescue, he or she is responsible for the passengers on the ship, for instance. If you remember that case about the Italian ship captain taking the life boat while the ship sank, that's why he got prosecuted. The article talks about these duties. It's not about the duty of other passengers on the ship. Part of that is because the crew of the ship is also trained in proper rescue procedure which includes not getting into even more trouble because there are now two people who need rescuing instead of one.
    1) the CC was a cruiseship owned by a large international conglomerant. hardly the same thing as a privately owned yacht. apple and oranges.
    2) i don't think there is any need to quibble over the word "captain". this was done earlier in the thread. davern was the employee. he wasn't in charge like schettino was
    3) from wagner's own lips

    ďDid I blame myself?Ē he wrote. ďIf I had been there, I could have done something. But I wasnít there. I didnít see her. The door was closed; I thought she was [below decks]. I didnít hear anything. But ultimately, a man is responsible for his loved one, and she was my loved one.Ē
    http://people.com/crime/natalie-wood...investigation/
    *** THIS POST IS JMO (unless a link is provided) AND IS ONLY FOR USE ON WEBSLEUTHS -- PLEASE DO NOT LINK OR COPY IT ELSEWHERE ***

  3. #1113
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    CA - Natalie Wood, 43, drowned off California coast, 29 Nov 1981

    I used to Love watching Natalie Wood and in turn Robert Wagner, but after Natalieís death I soured on him, because everyone kind of knew he did it, but then LE didnít do anything about it..(Yes, I get that they likely had no evidence to convict, etc).., but I was so young I didnít know all of that..*shrugs*

    Iíve always thought it pretty clear that R.W. killed her..(he was a big philanderer), and he was super jelly of Christopher Wís acting with Natalie in their recent movie (scanners or something)..and then C.W.ís trying to get Natalie Wood to Step up & Shine (& not worry about her dang controlling her career husband)...

    Now was there a thing between the two? Christopher Watkins & Natalie Wood...Umm..*shrugs* I dunno (Heís a cool actor and all that, but C.Wís is a royal Nutter!..*laughs*.. and has only gotten further out there over the years...seriously, have you ever watched a candid interview with him??.*laughs*...thereís an obvious reason that the studios donít really send him to do movie promos!..*laughs hard*..)......so I could see C.W. looking at N.W. possibly in an attracted way..maybe..(itís logical, but gut feels like it is a stretch, Iím still not convince CW is straight) ...so, even innocently as a big brother encouraging a wounded, fragile bird...and I think that Natalie Wood likely responded to his kindness and encouragement...maybe not sexually, but in more of a growing confidence level, and to Natalie stretching her wings as an individual and person kind of way, and in my mind...

    Also, with C.W. Remember that he was an new Star rising ...and that R.W. was long time Hollywood, with Powerful pull at the studios...the metoo movement is a snowflake in a snow storm in comparison to the pull stars had back then, AND, also remember it was only recently within the last, what 10yrs that local CA law enforcement went thru a change in policy where they stopped giving Ďstarsí total preferential treatment, kid gloves & white glove service for fear of the hollywood studios money, power, and political influence..Hollywood of that day has carte blanche... Also keep in mind, Natalieís death since she died, has continuously been trotted out every few years, it gets coverage, R.W. gets asked about it or raked over the coals about it, but then nothing is done..maybe a little info here or there, and some lone investigator looks into the details for a story, which seems to inflame people, but then ultimately, everything just goes back to silence with nothing legally done..again...(*and again, and again, *repeat)

    So, my thoughts are that When R.W. & C.W. were on the boat, and R.W. (drunk that he was), started to get all belligerent towards both C.W. & Natalie, and R.W. Started tossing around accusations and likely awful words about C.W.& Natalie sexually & an affair....

    ...I think Natalie Wood for the 1st time in a ages...stood up for herself w/her Bullying..and if that were the case then...yeah, I think R&W...did it...

    ...and I think R.W. pressured C.W. into keeping his silence, because R.W. was in a position star power wise (& financially) that he could ruin C.W.ís career, so I think C.W. kept silent..but, I also think that his star power is such now that he can stand on his own two feet and no longer fears R.W. can ruin him...so, he is speaking up, is slowly, and to hide his own culpability..(imho)

    Thatís my take on it all at least...I feel Sorry for Natalie, and I feel Sorry for her kids who he had custody over, and were raised knowing that he killed their mum (imho), thatís a terrible complicated level of guilt & love...(guilt Iím sure, for loving the man who they know in their hearts killed their mum, but at the same time, he was the man who raised them)...again, just my opinion & theory..

    I hope that one day, Natalie will finally get some justice, but regardless, I hope that she is resting in peace...

    ***Note:The above is only my own opinions, thoughts, theories, views, and possible BIG Fish Tales; unless otherwise indicated by a website URL and/or reference to a direct origin source..Thanks!
    The TRUTH WILL OUT!, and There will be a Reckoning, in this Life or the Next!
    The TRUTH WILL OUT & THERE WILL BE A RECKONING, in this Life or the Next!!!

  4. #1114
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    Quote Originally Posted by redheadedgal View Post
    1) the CC was a cruiseship owned by a large international conglomerant. hardly the same thing as a privately owned yacht. apple and oranges.
    2) i don't think there is any need to quibble over the word "captain". this was done earlier in the thread. davern was the employee. he wasn't in charge like schettino was
    3) from wagner's own lips



    http://people.com/crime/natalie-wood...investigation/
    I don't think it matters whether the ship was owned by a corporation or by a few people. The captain is still held responsible for the safety of the people on the ship. There's lots of reasons for this, but it comes down to training: a captain knows what to look out, for instance, when it comes to weather ("a storm of this type is coming, we should head back to port or safe harbor.") They know how to run the ship, they know the best way to rescue people if they fall into the water. That's why you hire a captain for your ship.

    Looking at this site (https://www.mptusa.com/captains-license.cfm) I see that training for a ship's captain to be Coast Guard certified includes:
    navigation
    tidal calculations
    international and inland rules of the road
    coastal pilotage
    meteorology
    anchoring and mooring
    marlinespike
    docking and undocking
    buoyage systems
    safety
    voyage and passage planning
    general ship knowledge regulations
    stability and vessel construction
    seamanship
    I doubt RW had that knowledge. I doubt NW had that knowledge. That's why Davern was hired, to do that work for them. Also, and let's be honest, so they could drink and enjoy themselves, just like you may have a drink on a plane because you know the flight crew is flying the plane and has your back.

    Davern's claim, from what I understand, is that he either knew or suspected that NW was drowning. If his responsibility are to people on the ship, then he should have rescued NW. If his responsibility are to the owners of the ship, then he should also have rescued NW.

    I'll say that even if RW pushed NW into the water, which we don't know at this point but let's say it's true, Davern still had a responsibility to rescue her.

    Does RW say he blames himself? Yes. I wrote an earlier post that I deleted, but I think a lot of us that have lost loved ones blame ourselves even if there was nothing we could do. RW was probably drunk by the time NW was in the water. As far as I can tell, he was not a trained lifeguard earlier in his life, or then. If he jumped into the water after her, Davern would have needed to rescue two people, not one. It's like having a loved one who got lost in the woods; sure, it's one thing to say "I'm going to go back into the woods and find them", but search-and-rescue is best left to people who are trained to do it. I say this as someone who attended orientation for a local SAR group and realized that it was something that physically I couldn't do. So in the end, that person going back into the woods to find their loved one will probably not find them and will require rescuing themselves. So we leave it to the people trained to do it, the "professionals" so to speak - and the professional in this case was Davern.

    I think Davern has tremendous guilt about what happened that night. Trying to shift blame is also natural and expected. That doesn't excuse it.

  5. #1115
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    Jul 2008
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    Louisiana
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    How could a Captain of the ship have prevented one passenger from killing another? To assume that he could is patently ridiculous, IMO! The Captain couldn't possibly guarantee a passenger's safety from another!

    **IMO, I do think RW was jealous of CW. RW and NW could have been having a disagreement over CW and he could have pushed her overboard.

    I believe CW knows what happened. He needs to tell it if he does.

    JMHO
    Thoughts and prayers for the people of Paris and all of France!

  6. #1116
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulR View Post
    I don't think it matters whether the ship was owned by a corporation or by a few people. The captain is still held responsible for the safety of the people on the ship. There's lots of reasons for this, but it comes down to training: a captain knows what to look out, for instance, when it comes to weather ("a storm of this type is coming, we should head back to port or safe harbor.") They know how to run the ship, they know the best way to rescue people if they fall into the water. That's why you hire a captain for your ship.

    Looking at this site (https://www.mptusa.com/captains-license.cfm) I see that training for a ship's captain to be Coast Guard certified includes:
    please provide a cite (aka proof) for your assertion davern had an official "captains license" for the state of CA and was acting under it when he was aboard the wagner's boat that night (which will prove he wasn't merely an employee tasked to drive the yacht and maintain it [hence being called it's "captain" informally which the media picked up and has continued to use all this time later] as many of us understand to be the case). tia.
    *** THIS POST IS JMO (unless a link is provided) AND IS ONLY FOR USE ON WEBSLEUTHS -- PLEASE DO NOT LINK OR COPY IT ELSEWHERE ***

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