The Six of Us

Even though the evidence is clear and convincing that a Ramsey was somehow involved in the death of JonBenet, there is some evidence that suggests a fifth and maybe even a sixth person could have been in the house that night as guests.

There's been discussion in the past about who these guests could have been , if indeed there were any. One theory involves a dispute over who the Ramseys were to take with them on Disney's Big Red Boat on December 29 as playmates for Burke and JonBenet, after the family returned from Charlevoix. The dispute led to the killing of JonBenet by Burke and another child, which the parents are covering up.

There were hints that the Ramseys sometimes took playmates for Burke and JonBenet in the past when they went on vacation, especially on trips to Charlevoix. But here's a particularly intriguing comment from Patsy during the 1998 interviews that sort of supports the hypothesis that other children were sometimes brought along -- and if so, who were they, and were they the same ones who may have been in the Ramsey house on Christmas night as guests?

Tom Haney: "Do you recall, say 1996, did you travel outside of the country?"

Patsy Ramsey: "I don't -- I don't think so. I don't remember. Oh, seems like we were in Mexico, we went to a beach down there. Took the children. Mazatlan. And that would have been in, I know it was hot down there, so I don't know when it would have been. But the six of us went. And the kids had never been to Europe, so we wouldn't have gone there with them."

The SIX of us! That would be John, Patsy, Burke, JonBenet, and TWO GUESTS. I wonder who they were.

JMO

Nedra and Pam.

popcorn said:

Nedra and Pam.

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Source please.

JMO

There were four Ramsey children - Melinda. JAR, Burke and Jonbenet. 4 + 2 parents = 6.

Am I missing something?

Jayelles said:

There were four Ramsey children - Melinda. JAR, Burke and Jonbenet. 4 + 2 parents = 6.

Am I missing something?

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Maybe, but not likely. It was 1996. Neither John Andrew nor Melinda lived at home.

JMO

I don't know about the Mexico trip Bluecrab, but do you recall that someone suggested that "a friend" (Anthony I believe his name was) go along with Burke to Atlanta to the funeral when they went to keep him company? Patsy agreed to this. I always thought that was odd. You'd think a 10 yr old child would want to stick close to his parents (and they him) at a time like that.

Also, something that John Ramsey said during the 1st crock when he was reflecting back on that Christmas morning 1996 always stood out to me as interesting and fits in with the question of others in the house that day/night.
John was describing how they opened gifts that Christmas morning.
He said that "the LITTLE KIDS" passed around the gifts... Now, why would he qualify the kids with "little" unless he was distinguishing them from the "big" kids? I grew up in a family of 8 kids and we always distinguished the groups as the "little kids" and "big kids."
Take a look at this clip if you have it.

Whoever was in that house whether it was just the 4 of them or more, does not change the fact that whoever was invovled in the killing of JonBenet was someone who the Ramseys were willing to lie and cover for.
Now WHO would they be willing to take such a risk and do that for?

That was only a guess. Those are the relationships Patsy was most intimate with. I think with others they would have been grouped as the four of us and two of them. Nedra and Pam seemed to accompany Patsy and many jaunts, to New York, to Texas(?) and likely elsewhere.

I think she was referring to JAR/Melinda going to Mexico. No source, just my guess.

I have always thought that JAR was at home on Christmas morning. No videos per the usual Christmas mornings....John lawyered up his own kids and ex-wife, and then struck that deal to give an interview with the BPD if they would announce that JAR/Melinda had been "cleared".

IMO

As Camper reminded in another thread a young man was seen walking up to the Ramseys door Christmas day but due to the neighbor being elderly it was dismissed as a viable lead.


Someone(s) was there Christmas morning and I belive that because there is supposedly no video or photos of that morning which I find unbelivable that Patsy would miss a "photo-op".


The Ramseys have many secrets and apparently whoever was there had to be hidden for a reason............

The cops seemed interested in finding out more about boys in the Ramsey neighborhood who visted the house to play. But they were all older than JonBenet and Burke, so I doubt any of them would have went on a trip with the Ramseys. For instance, from the 1998 interview with Patsy Ramsey:

Tom Haney: "I want to talk about some of the kids from the neighborhood too. This Luke, is it Vermiere?"

Patsy Ramsey: "Vermiere, yes. Next door, yes."

Tom Haney: "What, what about him, how much time did he spend at your place, who did he play with?"

Patsy Ramsey: "You know, I mean he wasn't in our house really much. He was with Burke and certainly JonBenet, but he was a very sweet child and would give JonBenet attention. You know, even when she was real little, he would stoop down and talk with her and all that. And she was -- I thought a child who could have a little crush, you know, she sort of liked him, because he was soft spoken and gentle and you know. Pretty features and you know, just a nice little boy. She would get kind of flush she -- sort of around him or something. And she called him Big Luke, because we had another friend, Luke Fernie who we referred to him as Little Luke. But he was not ever really around a lot."

Trip DeMuth: "You say he would give JonBenet attention. Would he play with her?"

Patsy Ramsey: "Not really. I mean I sort of kept an eyeball there. Because he was a little bit older, you know. But he would just be -- you know, there might be several kids down on the patio, the back patio, he would be on a bike or something and he would talk with her or something."

Trip DeMuth: "Did he ever spend any amount of time in the house playing with Burke, for example."

Patsy Ramsey: "A lot of the neighborhhod boys came over and would play video games with Burke. The Colby boys, Luke sometimes, but he was just a little bit older, you know, so he really wasn't there too much. And Wes, one of the children of the couple next door, Priscilla and Scott."

Trip DeMuth: "Gibbons?"

Patsy Ramsey: Gibbons, yes."

Trip DeMuth: "How old was Wes?"

Patsy Ramsey: "Wes was a couple of years older than Burke."

Trip DeMuth: "How often would he come over?'"

Patsy Ramsey: "It would be kind of sporadic ... So they would all congregate at our house because we had the swing and the porch and the sandbox and the videos and all that."

Trip DeMuth: "So was your house kind of an open house for the local kids?"

Patsy Ramsey: "Yes."

Tom Haney: "You mentioned the Colbys, they are quite a bit older than your kids, right?"

Patsy Ramsey: "Well, well, Evan was nearly Burke's age, he was like a year older. And Kai was two, three years older."

Tom Haney: "And they spent a lot of time?"

Patsy Ramsey: "Yeah."

JMO

Interesting, BC. Thanks for posting it.

Do you know if any of these kids were interviewed by LE? Even if they weren't involved in JonBenet's death, they might have been able to provide some valuable info, whether they meant to or not.

IMO

Bluecrab - thank you again for posting this apparentley "edited" portion of the interviews. Would you mind posting more? How did you avail yourself of them anyway?

I find it quite interesting that the police seemed to need to focus alot on young male friends of Burke's. It again reminds me of that old poster, Lake, who insisted that he KNEW it was juvenilles that had committed this crime.
I wish I could remember more of what he used to say.....

A very good friend of mine was molested for years by neighborhood friends of her older brother.She was young and they convinced her it was "okay" to go along.Her Mother found out and put a stop to it and informed the other parents but they didnt think it was a big deal,they said it was kids expirmenting and then after she tried to involve LE the other parents blamed her because the incidents took place at her house or in the woods behind their house (my friend and her family ended up moving and LE did nothing but you have to remember this was back in the 70's and the boys were "only"5-7 years older so the Police chalked it up to "playing doctor"-never mind it was FOUR or more boys and one little girl-although Id like to think nowadays LE would take something like that seriously).
Anyway,when I read Patsy describing this older neighbood boy(who looked so cute)talking softly to JBR I thought of my friends situation and I got the creeps!!!! Why would he "bother"? Thered be no peer relationship there,youd think he wouldnt have even noticed her! I have a preteen son they dont notice girls (and if they do theyre age appropriate) and it just seems odd hed have been so friendly to JBR.

I think child on child molestation and rape is VASTLY underreported and Im becoming more convinced something w/ JBR may have happened along those lines but BlueCrab-why Christmas Eve??????

messiecake said:

I think child on child molestation and rape is VASTLY underreported and Im becoming more convinced something w/ JBR may have happened along those lines but BlueCrab-why Christmas Eve??????

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Excellent question messiecake. (Incidentally, it was Christmas night, not Christmas Eve.) The Ramseys were to leave on an extended vacation beginning very early the next morning, so either that or the fact that it was Christmas may have had something to do with the perp's motivation.

For instance, JonBenet's autopsy showed evidence of chronic sexual abuse. But if the crime was motivated by sex, why couldn't the perp(s) have waited until the Ramseys had returned home? If a teenaged neighbor was involved, did the Ramsey's vacation interrupt an established routine among the children? Was Christmas night "the last opportunity for awhile?"

JMO

So Burke ,up w/ JBR eating pineapple in the kitchen,could have very well opened the door to let someone in..............

messiecake said:

So Burke ,up w/ JBR eating pineapple in the kitchen,could have very well opened the door to let someone in..............

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Yes.

JMO

BlueCrab said:

For instance, JonBenet's autopsy showed evidence of chronic sexual abuse. But if the crime was motivated by sex, why couldn't the perp(s) have waited until the Ramseys had returned home? If a teenaged neighbor was involved, did the Ramsey's vacation interrupt an established routine among the children? Was Christmas night "the last opportunity for awhile?"

JMO

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Where in the autopsy report did it report CHRONIC sexual abuse? I missed something.

twizzler333 said:

Where in the autopsy report did it report CHRONIC sexual abuse? I missed something.

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It didn't. The autopsy report provided EVIDENCE of chronic sexual abuse. For instance:

o The hymen was eroded (gradually worn away over a period of time) until nothing was left of it but a rim between the 2 o'clock and 10 o'clock positions. The autopsy report said the partial rim "represented" the hymen.

o The hymenal orifice opening measured 1 x 1 cm, about twice the size it should have been for a female JonBenet's age and size.

o Besides the acute (new) injuries to the vagina, there was chronic (old) inflamation in the internal membranes of the vagina, suggesting sexual abuse had occurred 2 to 3 days prior to the murder.

Among the reputable medical experts who have studied the report and have concluded that JonBenet suffered prior sexual abuse are:

Dr. David Jones

Dr. James Monteleone

Dr. John McCann

Dr. Cyril Wecht

Dr. Ronald Wright

JMO

messiecake said:

So Burke ,up w/ JBR eating pineapple in the kitchen,could have very well opened the door to let someone in..............

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One of the strongest indications that Burke could have secretly snuck the killer into the house in the middle of the night was a comment from a neighbor.

Diane Brumfit, the next door neighbor directly to the south, noticed that the Ramsey outside security light at the southeast corner of the sunroom had been turned off on the night of the murder.

According to Brumfit, the light had been kept on every night for years, but on that night it had been turned off from inside the house.

JMO