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  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda7NJ View Post
    I think if you re-read my post....I agreed with you... They should...but they don't!

    I clearly stated, I wasn't blaming the parents.
    I do not think that you are blaming the parents. You sated how and why they continued to to sent their beautiful child off to school everyday. I am not in their shoes so I am not sure wetehr or not they were in a position that there was an alternative to her going to school. You and I both agree that children should be able to send there kids off to school and they be safe and we both agree that that is not entirely plausible. All I am saying is absolutely every effort should be taken so that it can be plausible. Schools need to be held responsible and harsh actions taken when they drop the ball on bullying. There also needs to be harsher punishment for bullies . Something needs to be done from the very first signs of bullying also and not wait until it is much to late as in this case.

  2. #47
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    Perhaps the mother was pacified by words from authority figures who had no intention of making sure the bullying stopped.

    Perhaps, Phoebe herself continued to go to school out of choice.

    Whatever happened it is most definitely a tragedy. I hope the students that bullied, and I hate to use that word, her death is the result of so much more than that in my opinion. I hope the students who were involved in this are punished to the fullest extent of the law. I hope they find it so difficult to live with themselves that they find a way to make a change in their school systems and atone for the wrong that they have done, and that might still never be enough. JMO
    The depths of which we are able to love will be measured by the depths we are able to love ourselves....et

    There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must NEVER be a time when we fail to protest. Elie Wiesel

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda7NJ View Post
    A "luxury" ?

    I don't think so.

    Adults have recourse. If an adult faced the same sort of harassment in the workplace there are laws in place. Adults can decide to stay or go, file suit etc... Children can not. It's up to their parents.

    We know what happens when a bully's victim tries to handle it on their own....school shootings, stabbings etc...or suicide...or emotional damage that never leaves.

    It's a HUGE deal with lasting repercussions. If parents don't make their child's well being a priority, how the heck is anyone else supposed to???

    If pulling the child out is TRULY impossible....I would suggest it's a parents job to be very LOUD and EVER present in advocating for their child's rights. Find a lawyer, put the school on notice, call the media, etc...

    This particular child was 15 years old. Obviously, old enough to stay home alone and do guided online study.

    I think many parents are sending the wrong message to their children when a child believes their own safety and well being isn't as important as going off to be tortured everyday getting an "education".
    Let just be real. Most people have to work to make a living.
    They are not going to be able to pull the child out of school every time the child is having problems. Ultimately this is a suicide. I don't think anyone expects the child to commit suicide over problems in school.
    Last edited by jjenny; 03-30-2010 at 10:59 AM.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda7NJ View Post
    A "luxury" ?

    I don't think so.

    Adults have recourse. If an adult faced the same sort of harassment in the workplace there are laws in place. Adults can decide to stay or go, file suit etc... Children can not. It's up to their parents.

    We know what happens when a bully's victim tries to handle it on their own....school shootings, stabbings etc...or suicide...or emotional damage that never leaves.

    It's a HUGE deal with lasting repercussions. If parents don't make their child's well being a priority, how the heck is anyone else supposed to???

    If pulling the child out is TRULY impossible....I would suggest it's a parents job to be very LOUD and EVER present in advocating for their child's rights. Find a lawyer, put the school on notice, call the media, etc...

    This particular child was 15 years old. Obviously, old enough to stay home alone and do guided online study.

    I think many parents are sending the wrong message to their children when a child believes their own safety and well being isn't as important as going off to be tortured everyday getting an "education".
    Linda with all do respect I think that the way changes will be brought about is not focusing on the bullied childrens parents but on the schools , the bullies parents and the bullies them selfs. I do agree that parents should make there childrens safety and well being their #1 priority but I know of cases where parents have made themselves a thorn in the side of the school and nothing has been done. Some parents honestly have no other option than to sent their child to school. If it was me I would pull my child out but I have that option. I do not think things will change until the schools , the bullies and even the bullies parents if they have chosen to do nothing are held accountable very harshly by law. I just do not think anything will be accomplished by trying to hold the bullied child's parents to a higher accountability.

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    Let just be real. Most people have to work to make a living.
    They are not going to be able to pull the child out of school every time the child is having problems. Ultimately this is a suicide. I don't think anyone expects the child to commit suicide over problems in school.
    Is school nothing but a free babysitting service for working parents?

    It shouldn't be.

    I don't think what this child endured should be classified something as simple as "problems in school." What if this was going on in your workplace?

    What is a bullied child actually learning? To hate themselves, feel "less than", how to be scared, routes of escape, their parents can't or won't protect them, or don't care enough to, ditto for the school etc.... Does anyone really believe they are still getting a decent academic education? At what cost? The ones that don't snap and harm others or themselves learn simply how to suck it up and be a good victim because no one really gives a crap?

    I wouldn't expect anyone under constant and relentless attack to learn much of anything academically.

    Schools should be safe. No kidding. Doesn't change the fact that they're aren't. A six year old child should be able to walk to the corner store alone, play at the park down the street alone and linger in the toy isle of a store while a parent shops. But that doesn't change the reality that they simply can not, safely.

    I was very reluctant to blame the parents because of their loss and overwhelming grief. I sincerely hope not a one of them reads what I am about to write. They should have pulled her out of school. Deep down, I do blame them. Their daughter wasn't strong enough to withstand the torment and I feel they should have protected her.

    While everyone else continues blaming the schools, and the bodies pile up, let's all ignore the parents responsibility? I don't think so. Parents need to send the strong message to their children that their safety and well being is your number one priority and should also be theirs. That you will protect them or die trying.

    I don't understand the mentality and chronic need of the vast majority of people for the public education system to raise children. What the heck do all of these parents unable to pull their children out do with them in the summer?


    Nosy by Nature and a Websleuther by choice

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by bamabeauty View Post
    Linda with all do respect I think that the way changes will be brought about is not focusing on the bullied childrens parents but on the schools , the bullies parents and the bullies them selfs. I do agree that parents should make there childrens safety and well being their #1 priority but I know of cases where parents have made themselves a thorn in the side of the school and nothing has been done. Some parents honestly have no other option than to sent their child to school. If it was me I would pull my child out but I have that option. I do not think things will change until the schools , the bullies and even the bullies parents if they have chosen to do nothing are held accountable very harshly by law. I just do not think anything will be accomplished by trying to hold the bullied child's parents to a higher accountability.

  7. #52
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  8. #53
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    I have nothing of substance to add. I simply dropped in to express my sympathy to Phoebe's Family and Friends...this story reached deep inside of me and crushed my heart. I don't even think I can follow it...it's just too painful. I can't imagine the pain that Child felt. Thank God. And may the Family find peace...someday.


    ďIn the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.Ē

    Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

  9. #54
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    This letter comes too late in my opinion. Evidently there were at least two girls that moved to get away from this very school and the bullying.

    Old video but a good watch [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CihzX-kvrFo&NR=1[/ame]
    The depths of which we are able to love will be measured by the depths we are able to love ourselves....et

    There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must NEVER be a time when we fail to protest. Elie Wiesel

  10. #55
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    This poor darling girl. No one deserves to go through that hell, especially being 15 and new to America. This story absolutely breaks my heart.


  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metzgermeister View Post
    Uhhh wouldn't he have to be 18+ for statutory? And there were two people when she only dated 1 jock...

    Age of consent in Mass is 16. Statutory rape is having sex with someone under the age of 16. This is a strict liability crime. Basically, if you did it, you get convicted.

    The boys charged with statutory rape are 17 and 18. Most states have what is called Romeo and Juliet laws preventing people from being charged with statutory rape when one party is above the age of consent and the other party is below, but their ages are within a certain age number of years (usually around 3 years). These laws were developed to stop high school students that are dating from being charged with statutory rape. For example, a High School senior that is 18 and a high school freshman that is 15. Massachusetts apparently does not have such a law. As such, these two boys will face life in prison.
    Last edited by AndresEscobar; 03-30-2010 at 01:55 PM.

  12. #57
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    Bullying makes me so mad. I wish my mom had the stones to pull me out of school. I was teased not nowhere near like this poor girl and others. I was so depressed and times and did think of suicide.

    Yeah its not very easy to pull your kid out of school. I know in Texas the districts are set up by area and going to another school that is outside your area is hard to do. There aren't really any alternatives unless u home school and most dont have that luxury. But if my kid is suffering that bad then I would do what I had to do and get them out.
    Rest in Peace John 08/09/86-04/24/2014.

    Husband, father and son. I miss you and so does your son.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by adnoid View Post
    If the facts fit the State's definition for statutory rape (that exact term is actually not used in MA) her testimony would not be needed anyway. If the facts confirm sexual activity and the ages of the two are accurate it's prima facie evidence that the crime occurred. If in fact she was below the age of legal consent her insistence that she consented would be irrelevant.
    How would prosecutor confirm sexual activity without her testimony?
    She is dead and presumably no physical evidence has been collected.
    Even if the boys told other people there was sexual activity, what is to stop them from denying it at trial?

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by burbqueen View Post
    Bullying makes me so mad. I wish my mom had the stones to pull me out of school. I was teased not nowhere near like this poor girl and others. I was so depressed and times and did think of suicide.

    Yeah its not very easy to pull your kid out of school. I know in Texas the districts are set up by area and going to another school that is outside your area is hard to do. There aren't really any alternatives unless u home school and most dont have that luxury. But if my kid is suffering that bad then I would do what I had to do and get them out.
    Exactly. Most people can not afford private schools, and either unable or don't know how to home school. And hindsight is always 20-20. If her parents knew she was going to kill herself over this, then presumably they would have pulled her out of school even if she got no education-obviously the parents had no idea as to what she was going to do.

  15. #60
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    Wise Old Owl is offline Retired WS Staff & Founding member of AFKBPOFPOPL
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjenny View Post
    How would prosecutor confirm sexual activity without her testimony?
    She is dead and presumably no physical evidence has been collected.
    Even if the boys told other people there was sexual activity, what is to stop them from denying it at trial?
    I have been giving this some thought. It might be that the boys involved were rumored to have "taken her virginity" and that could be proven in an autopsy. IDK - just thinking out loud.

    As a teacher of almost 20 years now - there are LOT of PROBLEMS in our school throughout this country. Bullying is a HUGE problem - but one that has been around as long as school itself.

    Here in Broward county, FloriDUH - we were the first to boast that our public schools have adopted and instituted an "Anti Bullying Policy". All I have to say about this is - this "policy" was already in effect when Michael Brewer was lit on fire and Josie Ratley had her head kicked in - soooooo......I have to ask the School "Bored" members here - "How's that wokrin' out for ya?"

    Prayers for Phoebe's family.

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