Tiny toy gun nearly gets boy suspended

Laura Timoney fumes after son Patrick, 9, is busted for bringing 2-inch-long toy gun to PS 52

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/education/2010/02/04/2010-02-04_big_trouble_over_this_tiny_toy_mom_fuming_at_a_lack_of_common_sense_as_son_buste.html


The poll on the website shows 90%+ supporting the Mom & Kid in this situation, saying the school overreacted.

Honestly, though, the school has to follow their rules. If the school has a policy about guns (whether they be real or pretend), then they have to support that rule. My daughter's preschool is a "gun-free" zone which means the kids aren't even allowed to pretend that a stick is a gun, and they are very strict about following that rule.

I have to agree with Mom on this one. Common sense has gone out the window. He should have been asked to put it away, and told not to bring it again. I have a no weapons policy in my daycare. If kids bring inappropriate things, I take them, and give them back to the parent and ask them kindly not to let them bring that item again. I don't like guns of any kind, even water guns, but seriously-the kid is afraid to go to school because he thinks the principal is mad at him? It would seem to me that the princpal didn't handle it the right way. Where has common sense gone?

Okay, while I agree that the principal didn't use a whole lot of common sense and it would be wrong to suspend him for this, the mom sounds a little batty. They might sue? For what? Your kid got in trouble at school?

Grow up. Yes, it would be nice if the principal apologized and explained how she has to take weapons, even tiny ones, very seriously because her job is to keep kids safe and she would be devastated if anything happened to them. But fourth grade is old enough to understand the rules and follow them.

The mom should have handled it with the kid and the staff...why does a newspaper need to be involved? I love how she says he was "nearly busted" and "almost suspended" but ended up with NO DISCIPLINARY ACTION. Wow. What a breaking national news headline that is!

People need to learn that some "emotional distress" is a factor of living and get over themselves.

I definately agree that she has no grounds to sue, The whole thing should have been handled differently. I guess no common sense on both sides.

My son woe a bullet necklace to school and the bus drive had a fit. His teacher and principal handle it they took in out the hall told him to put in bag and not to bring it back to school if he did he would be suspended. The teacher sent me and email telling me what happen and what was done. Nothing else was every said about it. My husband has a cigarette lighter that is a very small pistol. I have saw real pistols that littler than his cigarette lighter

Celt1997 said:

Laura Timoney fumes after son Patrick, 9, is busted for bringing 2-inch-long toy gun to PS 52

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/education/2010/02/04/2010-02-04_big_trouble_over_this_tiny_toy_mom_fuming_at_a_lack_of_common_sense_as_son_buste.html


The poll on the website shows 90%+ supporting the Mom & Kid in this situation, saying the school overreacted.

Honestly, though, the school has to follow their rules. If the school has a policy about guns (whether they be real or pretend), then they have to support that rule. My daughter's preschool is a "gun-free" zone which means the kids aren't even allowed to pretend that a stick is a gun, and they are very strict about following that rule.

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Oh, geez! They even want to control a preschooler's IMAGINATION???? How wrong is that?!

If the school has a zero tolerance policy, they have to stick to it. No matter the size of the gun, or age of the child - toy guns do not belong in school. Besides the silly mom, hopefully this will teach the child a lesson. Guns are bad (IMHO) and do not belong in the classroom (IMHO).

ETA: why is this child bringing his toys to school with him anyway. My son was never allowed to. And if it was his prized possesion because his father was a retired police officer, the legos and gun should be left at home.

My .02

Mel

angelmom said:

Okay, while I agree that the principal didn't use a whole lot of common sense and it would be wrong to suspend him for this, the mom sounds a little batty. They might sue? For what? Your kid got in trouble at school?

Grow up. Yes, it would be nice if the principal apologized and explained how she has to take weapons, even tiny ones, very seriously because her job is to keep kids safe and she would be devastated if anything happened to them. But fourth grade is old enough to understand the rules and follow them.

The mom should have handled it with the kid and the staff...why does a newspaper need to be involved? I love how she says he was "nearly busted" and "almost suspended" but ended up with NO DISCIPLINARY ACTION. Wow. What a breaking national news headline that is!

People need to learn that some "emotional distress" is a factor of living and get over themselves.

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But angelmom, the principal wasn't taking a tiny weapon away! She was taking away a TOY that in no way presented any threat to anyone. And if the school is a zero tolerance for weapons, and toys that resemble weapons are considered to be weapons, then why the heck did the principal deem the toy sword to be "less" of a weapon than the little toy gun?

BTW, the "nearly busted" and "almost suspended" would have lacked their adverbs had the mother not protested, and loudly, and involved media. The school backed down because of the mother's protest.

Nothing about this makes a lick of sense!

seatoad said:

I definately agree that she has no grounds to sue, The whole thing should have been handled differently. I guess no common sense on both sides.

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I don't know what it would take to bring some good old common sense back into public schools. If there was even the slimmest of chances that a lawsuit would do it....I'm all for it.

Zero tolerance rules lack common sense and discretion

Linda7NJ said:

I don't know what it would take to bring some good old common sense back into public schools. If there was even the slimmest of chances that a lawsuit would do it....I'm all for it.

Zero tolerance rules lack common sense and discretion

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Zero tolerance DOES lack common sense and discretion. It actually defies common sense! It also criminalizes innocent play. When a child who brings a toy to school is treated as though the toy were a weapon, it does teach a lesson. It teaches the child that the people who run his school are flat out idiots. It teaches the child to be AFRAID of authority, instead of looking at the authorities as someone they can turn to for help.

USA is going to hell in a hand-basket. And it's stupidity that's the vehicle.

kgeaux said:

But angelmom, the principal wasn't taking a tiny weapon away! She was taking away a TOY that in no way presented any threat to anyone. And if the school is a zero tolerance for weapons, and toys that resemble weapons are considered to be weapons, then why the heck did the principal deem the toy sword to be "less" of a weapon than the little toy gun?

BTW, the "nearly busted" and "almost suspended" would have lacked their adverbs had the mother not protested, and loudly, and involved media. The school backed down because of the mother's protest.

Nothing about this makes a lick of sense!

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The problem is, where you do draw the line? Are toys okay? What about air-soft guns? They are toys, yet they look so much like real guns that airport security often has a hard time telling for sure, and at least one child has been killed because someone thought he was pointing a real gun at another child.

What about size? This is tiny, but as a poster above mentioned, there are real weapons that are very small.

Somewhere there has to be a line. If you keep moving it, it's harder to follow the rules than if there is just one flat rule: NO GUNS.

That includes pictures of guns (we had a child suspended for that - he was drawing incredibly violent pictures and the school required that he be evaluated before returning to school) or toys (we've had 2 middle school boys expelled for bringing their air-soft guns to a school dance! :waitasec or even verbal threats (we currently have a third grader being assessed b/c he told another child he was going to bring a gun to school and kill him).

As an administrator, I cannot imagine a worse nightmare than having a child bring a weapon to school and harm others, unless it is that same scenario but I had a warning and didn't take it seriously enough.

AND, as the poster above stated, why is he bringing toys to school in the first place?

Last, the mother claims he was "almost suspended" in the original article, but never actually says that suspension was going to be the punishment or that the principal even suggested that. My guess is that the principal referred to the weapons policy which states that he would normally be suspended, and actually did use some common sense by not imposing that.

You are right that America is going to hell, but a lot of the reason is these parents who never let their kids learn any hard lessons about truth and consequences. I can promise you that if my kid got called into the principal's office they would be upset too, but not because of a pending lawsuit. It would be concern for how long their punishment at home was going to be for breaking the rules to begin with!

PS...he is not a preschooler. He is in 4th grade, so 9 or 10 years old. Too old to be bringing toys to school, and old enough to know the rules.

The boys were playing with their action figures at lunch. Many kids take trading cards and little things with them to school. I can remember taking jacks to school as a kid and being able to play them at recess. It's good that the parents of the U.S. alert the media and public when things go too far with schools. We pay our taxes and they work for us, not the other way around. We should have a voice in just how far things go or don't go with discipline. Otherwise, we might as well just become meek sheep controlled and quivering in fear of standing up to our local districts and states then wonder what happened someday if we end up in prison camps for teaching our kids something they don't agree with. It totally amazes me that people have already given up so much control.

I'm with the school on this one. The boy was taken to the principle. A meeting was called with the parents. That is what should happen when a student breaks a no weapons rule. At that point it was deemed further action wasn't required.

I'd love to hear the full story from the school's point of view. The original article is clearly written to be supportive of the mom & child. I've always been told the truth lies somewhere in between both sides of the story.

That being said, I understand the need for "creative" play, but what constitutes safe creative play? Was the child using the lego figure and gun as a police officer, recreating a scene chasing a criminal? How was the "gun" used in the scenarios he and his friend were acting out?

In the end, there are far too many variables that could have occurred at that lunch table, and supporting their "no guns" rule was the only thing the school could have done.

Unfortunately the school now has to deal with another nutty Mom out to teach their kid a lesson in entitlement, rather than a lesson in responsibility.

ETA: And what is so wrong if the child is a little bit afraid of the principal? I know I was terrified of the "Principal's Office" and what it meant to be sent there. That's why I did my best to avoid getting into trouble!

One of mine got suspended for the same thing once, and my nephew got suspended for bringing nail clippers.

I just think that now when people are given a list of rules, for some reason it stops them from thinking on their own. I believe in no tolerance /no weapons policies, but people really need to use their brains. There are many variables to be considered. I know we don't know all the details, and I do believe many kids and parents feel some sense of entitlement, and some parents aren't teaching their children responsibility, but a child should not be afraid of the principal and /or teachers. They s/b afraid of getting in trouble,definately a respect for authority, but shouldn't be afraid to go to school. Each incident needs to be weighed and appropriate action taken. Think first, that's all I'm saying.

yet if this child were to bring a gun and shoot others in the school, this incident would have been looked upon and we would be questioning why no one saw the signs. I think the rules are clear. And they have been broken.

I've had this experience. When my son was in third grade, unbeknownst to me, he had this tiny toy gun. It came out of one of those machines that have toys in little round plastic egg type containers. You put a quarter in and out comes a ring, a spider or a gun.
I never knew he had it. One day he went to school with that little gun (hardly three dimentional) under one inch long.

The school contacted me and asked me to come in and I did. I was sitting in the Principals office feeling as if I were a child sitting in the Principals office, and he told me that "____ brought a toy gun to school today and apparently aimed it across the room at his friend." The teacher saw it and here we are. I must have turned three shades of red as I was baffled, had been totally unaware and was sort of :waitasec:. I told the Principal that I'm very sorry and I will make clear to my son the rules regarding toy guns, images of guns, etc. I have to admit when the Principal showed me the gun, I didn't quite know how to react because it was so tiny. My son was a rough and tumble little guy, always on the go, interested in boy stuff to included GI Joe and toys like that but I had never been alarmed with him being mean beyond normal kid stuff. Just a boy. BUT, because it was the school policy, I did not argue. The Principal made clear if it happened again, he would have to suspend him. Therefore, I read my kid the riot act (not harshly as in 'you dumb kid' but stressing the strict policy) so that it was clear he'd better never do that again or he would face consequences he would not like. Case closed.

Now, years later, I've asked him - remember the time you almost got suspended for bringing that 'gun' to school? - Whoever is with us will get a concerned look on their face and then we tell the story about the gumball machine gun. :blushing:

Angels_Not_Forgotten said:

yet if this child were to bring a gun and shoot others in the school, this incident would have been looked upon and we would be questioning why no one saw the signs. I think the rules are clear. And they have been broken.

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That is true. And we've all seen the news stories where signs were missed or ignored. And we have seen stories where there were no signs. That is why there are variables. If this child is a routine trouble maker, if this child has been told not to bring guns, or toys or weapons before, if he has been threatening or violent in anyway, then I can see the automatic suspension.(I realize there was no suspension ultimately in this particular case). But really, the principal couldnt have said," Hey , put it away." or "I'll hold this for you til schools out and we'll let your Mom know the rules about bringing guns to school."? It is really getting out of control, and I understand why, I want my kids to be safe too. But it seems to me that in this case, it could have been handled better,(of course not knowing all that happened.) JMO

seatoad said:

That is true. And we've all seen the news stories where signs were missed or ignored. And we have seen stories where there were no signs. That is why there are variables. If this child is a routine trouble maker, if this child has been told not to bring guns, or toys or weapons before, if he has been threatening or violent in anyway, then I can see the automatic suspension.(I realize there was no suspension ultimately in this particular case). But really, the principal couldnt have said," Hey , put it away." or "I'll hold this for you til schools out and we'll let your Mom know the rules about bringing guns to school."? It is really getting out of control, and I understand why, I want my kids to be safe too. But it seems to me that in this case, it could have been handled better,(of course not knowing all that happened.) JMO

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I'm in agreement here. At times, it seems that school has become uncaring and cold. Here we have a 9/10-year-old boy playing with a toy Lego at lunch, which happens to be a toy gun. Yes, the policy is "no guns," but why couldn't the administration just have told the boy to put the gun away, or they could have even held it for him. Then a quick call to mom to say that the policy is no guns, even tiny toy guns. Then mom doesn't get all freaked out, the kid gets an explanation that makes sense, and everybody can stay out of the national news and go about their business.

It seems like the education system is more and more becoming an "us against them" situation.