GUILTY NM - Joel Leyva, 52, brutally murdered, Albuquerque, 22 March 2010

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This is a weird article - if a Baptist kills someone, would they have the headline "Christian Commits Murder"?
 
probably if the crime occurred under the guise of celebrating a Baptist holiday and a dagger used in Baptists rituals was used to commit the murder.
 
bamabeauty said:
probably if the crime occurred under the guise of celebrating a Baptist holiday and a dagger used in Baptists rituals was used to commit the murder.
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Fair enough, but the article is clearly also sensationalizing for shock value. Modern Wicca doesn't have a human sacrifice tradition for the solstice, though, and it's odd that they say she had a ritual knife in her jeans, as ritual daggers tend to be kind of large-ish. I think I will take this article with a grain of salt for now.

ETA: My concern is that media hype will interfere with the potential jury pool and her fair trial. I'm not defending her, just saying it's a shame that the media came right out of the bullpen with the whole ritual murder angle, as those kinds of stories certainly have a way of sticking.
 
I really did not even pay attention to the Wiccan part. Just the murder part. I do not think it had anything to do with her being Wiccan , just evil. It makes me especially angry that she lied about being raped. Every time that happens it just makes it harder on the real rape victims out there!
 
I agree about the crying rape part...yet not sure how they got the story they did get-I guess from her? And I think she volunteered the Wiccan part, at least that is the scuttlebut here and seems to math article...(she does have a weird MS page, but not the weirdest I have ever seen)
NM is all about anything a bit off-center...but I imagine that a lot of Wiccans will be upset as from what I understand they really do not promote any kind of violence...I think I am right about this? Anyone know?
Seemingly she confessed...so maybe there will be some sort of a plea and we won't have to deal with a jury pool...(i have lived here in NM for over 20 yrs and never been called for JD :(
 
ITA, about the sensationalism. It's ridiculous. But then, playing Devil's Advocate for a moment, we did recently have the Baptist 10.

I hope the news sources use this as an opportunity to dispel some misperceptions of the Wiccan folk. We had a Wiccan festival here in town to celebrate the arrival of Spring, Ostara, which was lovely and not a drop of blood of spilled, I was assured.

Maybe next we'll read of a murder committed at the Presbyterian Picnic.
 
I don't think Oestera calls for drinking some beer and a "small tequila" does it? What is a small tequila?

Here's Sanford's Myspace. Tad confusing.



http://www.myspace.com/107191955
 
Well, it seems at this point that the accused brought up the Wiccan business and of course the media won't be able to resist it...
 
speaking as a catholic, anytime there's even a hint of a priest sex abuser all i hear about is how bad all catholics are because of what lurks in our churches.......as if its our fault.
 
cluciano63 said:
I agree about the crying rape part...yet not sure how they got the story they did get-I guess from her? And I think she volunteered the Wiccan part, at least that is the scuttlebut here and seems to math article...(she does have a weird MS page, but not the weirdest I have ever seen)
NM is all about anything a bit off-center...but I imagine that a lot of Wiccans will be upset as from what I understand they really do not promote any kind of violence...I think I am right about this? Anyone know?
Seemingly she confessed...so maybe there will be some sort of a plea and we won't have to deal with a jury pool...(i have lived here in NM for over 20 yrs and never been called for JD :(
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\

BBM - yes, you are correct. I find it quite upsetting.I am a Wiccan HPS (and have been for over 20 years as a HPS and over 30 years in the Craft) and this has nothing to do with Wicca. Someone calling themselves Wiccan killed someone because they are evil. There is nothing evil in Wicca.

But, I do have to say, the comments here by my fellow WebSleuthers have greatly touched me and warmed my heart.

Blessings!
 
kbl8201 said:
speaking as a catholic, anytime there's even a hint of a priest sex abuser all i hear about is how bad all catholics are because of what lurks in our churches.......as if its our fault.
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Especially now with this Brady guy across the pond.

Sorry for the hijack. Just had to add that.

May Mr. Leyva rest in peace.
 
I feel very badly for the victim in this case; he will probably be lost in the sensational aspects of it...the poor guy thought he was getting invited on a date by a woman he had met a week earlier...(it's not that easy to meet people!) who would have expected this to happen to them? I know you have to be careful of who you go out with, but a walk in the foothills (about 2 miles from me) should have been a relatively safe date for anyone. This is really sick and the work of a sick, twisted person, but not insane, if that is her ultimate plan...
 
I have to wonder what this woman was thinking really? Did she just want get her name in the papers? That is the only reason I can think of because this isnt someone who she knew and disliked or had some burning love for. Just a random guy that could have been anyone?
The wiccan thing I thought it was no drinking and ritualing at the same time, I maybe wrong but I thought thats how it went. I thought no drinking smoking ect.. 3 days before a ritual.
 
She's obviously not Wiccan (primary tenet: "An et harm none, do what ye wilt." Oestara (Spring Equinox) was on the 20th, not the 22nd. And no, we don't carry ritual daggers and walk around stabbing people with them. What a poor excuse for journalism, about a poor excuse of a Wiccan!
 
reen said:
She's obviously not Wiccan (primary tenet: "An et harm none, do what ye wilt." Oestara (Spring Equinox) was on the 20th, not the 22nd. And no, we don't carry ritual daggers and walk around stabbing people with them. What a poor excuse for journalism, about a poor excuse of a Wiccan!
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My mum tells me she was horrified to find out that Son of Sam was Jewish at the time of his killings. A bad Jew, but the community was ashamed and fearful about public opinion after he was found.

The Jews and Wiccans both know about being all painted with the same brush, and certainly both understand ritual murder accusations. I feel for Wiccans in this.

I will also add that, in my line of work, I have met a lot of Wiccans, and the ones I've met were all peaceful, rational and productive people. Just thought I'd toss that in there.
 
WhyaDuck? said:
My mum tells me she was horrified to find out that Son of Sam was Jewish at the time of his killings. A bad Jew, but the community was ashamed and fearful about public opinion after he was found. .
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Tell Mum to fear not. Berkowitz was into Satanism at the time he committed the murders. http://usminc.org/crimes3.html

Satanism isn't the same thing as Wicca

http://usminc.org/wiccasatanim.html

WhyaDuck? said:
The Jews and Wiccans both know about being all painted with the same brush, and certainly both understand ritual murder accusations. I feel for Wiccans in this.
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Well...Jews were actually persecuted for thousands of years, Wiccans weren't. Wicca was created in 1954 and tried to create a back history for itself going back thousands of years, but eventually to Wiccans debunked this idea, namely Adian Kelly in the book Crafting The Art of Magic and Ronald Hutton in Triumph of The Moon. But that doesn't stop Wiccans from borrowing phrases like "Never Forget, Never Again" from Jewish Holocaust survivors. (I was a Wiccan) http://usminc.org/oldreligion.html
 
sensationalism at it's best, with little understanding of wicca.

it's possible that the woman thought the man was going to harm her as soon as he tied her up when she was using the restroom. maybe she really feared for her life and the only thing she could do to save herself was stab him.
she only knew him for 2 weeks.

"While she was using the restroom, Leyva removed a rope belt from her waist and tied her up. He also removed a dagger she had in her back pocket."

not only did he tie her up, he took her weapon. if someone did that to me and i had only knew them for 2 weeks, i would fear for my life as well.

so sanford has to think quick. she figures the guy wants sex so plays along, and the first chance she gets she stabs him.

while he didn't get a chance to rape her, it's likely he had that in mind if she didn't consent.

the overkill 13 stab wounds is what is confusing a little. it's possible if she's had a history of sexual abuse or been raped before that would explain it.
 
Welcome to websleuths D1684!!!!!!!
Thanks for bumping this case, I hadn't read about it :)
 
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