Found Alive Girl with reddish hair and yellow top sitting in front of green wall

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punklove

punklove

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I was looking at this photo and I noticed something curious - I could be stretching things but these photos made me wonder something..

16gibeb.jpg


It seems to me these photos are of the same woman. If so, it looks like the photo on the left was the 'before' photo and the one on the left is the 'after', for lack of better words.

In the second photo shes wearing a necklace that she isnt in the first - which his love of taking jewelry from his victims is it possible that he was making new victims pose with old victims jewelry? It seems that a huge amount of the women are wearing necklaces or jewerly and it seems unlikely to me that if those photos were taken during the same time frame that she would suddenly put a necklace on. It looks like she has a black eye in the second photo, though it could simple be shadows.

It looks to me in the second photo that someone gave her a hairbrush and told her to brush her hair, its very styled in the first photo and she doesnt seem to have the type of hair that someone would typically brush, because the end result would be friz. I wonder if her hair was messed up in a struggle and he made her brush her hair?
 
punklove said:
I was looking at this photo and I noticed something curious - I could be stretching things but these photos made me wonder something..

16gibeb.jpg


It seems to me these photos are of the same woman. If so, it looks like the photo on the left was the 'before' photo and the one on the left is the 'after', for lack of better words.

In the second photo shes wearing a necklace that she isnt in the first - which his love of taking jewelry from his victims is it possible that he was making new victims pose with old victims jewelry? It seems that a huge amount of the women are wearing necklaces or jewerly and it seems unlikely to me that if those photos were taken during the same time frame that she would suddenly put a necklace on. It looks like she has a black eye in the second photo, though it could simple be shadows.

It looks to me in the second photo that someone gave her a hairbrush and told her to brush her hair, its very styled in the first photo and she doesnt seem to have the type of hair that someone would typically brush, because the end result would be friz. I wonder if her hair was messed up in a struggle and he made her brush her hair?
Click to expand...

It's common to restyle hair for different effects for photo shoots, so that by itself probably doesn't mean much. He might have been going for a more "morning after" sort of look in the photo.

Yes, I agree that some of the jewelry (that cross necklace, for another) looks like it could be a prop. Even a photographer who wasn't a serial killer would probably have a few things like that around if he was photographing nudes, because a completely nude woman just looks naked. The hint of dress makes it more enticing.

But to me, that looks like the pukka shell necklace the girl on the beach is wearing. Is that the same girl as well?
 
If a girl came to his house specifically to be photographed because he'd spun her a line about modelling, then she would probably bring a few outfits, some makeup, hairstyling equipment?

However, it seems to me that if he was killing as many as LE think he might have been, as well as disposing of bodies he must have had to dispose of a lot of clothing and personal effects.
 
reasypeasy said:
If a girl came to his house specifically to be photographed because he'd spun her a line about modelling, then she would probably bring a few outfits, some makeup, hairstyling equipment?

However, it seems to me that if he was killing as many as LE think he might have been, as well as disposing of bodies he must have had to dispose of a lot of clothing and personal effects.
Click to expand...

That's a good point about outfits etc.

I doubt if he disposed of them. He probably just threw them on his pile of props.
 
Obviously, all the pictures make me sad but for some reason, this one just breaks my heart.
 
punklove said:
I was looking at this photo and I noticed something curious - I could be stretching things but these photos made me wonder something..

16gibeb.jpg


It seems to me these photos are of the same woman. If so, it looks like the photo on the left was the 'before' photo and the one on the left is the 'after', for lack of better words.

In the second photo shes wearing a necklace that she isnt in the first - which his love of taking jewelry from his victims is it possible that he was making new victims pose with old victims jewelry? It seems that a huge amount of the women are wearing necklaces or jewerly and it seems unlikely to me that if those photos were taken during the same time frame that she would suddenly put a necklace on. It looks like she has a black eye in the second photo, though it could simple be shadows.

It looks to me in the second photo that someone gave her a hairbrush and told her to brush her hair, its very styled in the first photo and she doesnt seem to have the type of hair that someone would typically brush, because the end result would be friz. I wonder if her hair was messed up in a struggle and he made her brush her hair?
Click to expand...
For some reason, Nancy Grace's blog only has the first of these pictures posted. So that is the only one that I am able to blow up. In this first pic, this girl has either a mole or a pimple on her chin on the left side of the photo (her right). I don't see that in the other pics (which I am unable to blow up). So, he either had her put make-up on or the other pics were taken at a later/earlier date.

Does anyone have high res. images of the second and third photo of this woman or a link to them???
 
Pink Panther said:
For some reason, Nancy Grace's blog only has the first of these pictures posted. So that is the only one that I am able to blow up. In this first pic, this girl has either a mole or a pimple on her chin on the left side of the photo (her right). I don't see that in the other pics (which I am unable to blow up). So, he either had her put make-up on or the other pics were taken at a later/earlier date.

Does anyone have high res. images of the second and third photo of this woman or a link to them???
Click to expand...

The 3rd photo was at the Seattle Times but their pics are not high res.

So I went to the OC DA's site which has decent quality pics and none of the redhead's pics were there and I swear at least one of them used to be. Interestingly enough, the Danish girls pic and the bell bottom girl pic are not on the site either. The only identified person whose pics are still up on that site are the ones of the woman from CT (Leann I think is her name). Maybe it means something or maybe not, just thought it was interesting...
 
For the sake of completeness, here's the 4th photo of this woman. Not high res, I'm afraid. I don't remember where I found it.
 
In photo #3, that appears to be a Panasonic stereo or record player behind her and possibly a speaker on the right. The dresser behind her is not the same that appears in the apartment with the white walls, because the drawer handles are completely different.

Other dresser: http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00751.jpg

I hope I'm wrong on this, but in photo #4, the combination of her leg up in the air, the position of her hands and the strange way the photo is cropped makes me think he might have made her expose and/or touch herself for that shot. :p
 
tatertot said:
In photo #3, that appears to be a Panasonic stereo or record player behind her and possibly a speaker on the right. The dresser behind her is not the same that appears in the apartment with the white walls, because the drawer handles are completely different.

Other dresser: http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00751.jpg

I hope I'm wrong on this, but in photo #4, the combination of her leg up in the air, the position of her hands and the strange way the photo is cropped makes me think he might have made her expose and/or touch herself for that shot. :p
Click to expand...

Probably why they took it down -- not quite well enough cropped.

I don't know whether he had to "make" her do it. In the 70's plenty of people of both sexes were eager to have pictures like that taken -- the same urge that prompts young people to "sext" pictures of themselves today. It was the early days of sexual liberation, pre-AIDS and post-pill, and we went in for a lot of exhibitionism. Just going without a bra was exhibitionist, liberated, sexy.

Her expression is a little hard to read. Rather coy and shy. Or maybe coerced. Dunno. I'm not sure that other photo is the same woman, either.
 
carbuff said:
Probably why they took it down -- not quite well enough cropped.

I don't know whether he had to "make" her do it. In the 70's plenty of people of both sexes were eager to have pictures like that taken -- the same urge that prompts young people to "sext" pictures of themselves today. It was the early days of sexual liberation, pre-AIDS and post-pill, and we went in for a lot of exhibitionism. Just going without a bra was exhibitionist, liberated, sexy.

Her expression is a little hard to read. Rather coy and shy. Or maybe coerced. Dunno. I'm not sure that other photo is the same woman, either.
Click to expand...

I struggled as to whether this was the same girl myself, but if you look it appears there is a small scar on her right side just above the lip line toward her cheek. The photo with her wearing the yellow shirt shows some pimple of sorts on her chin, that does not appear to be on the puka shell photo, but this could be because they were taken some days apart maybe. Wonder if he ever airbrushed?
 
Missing As Of: 8/4/77
Last Known Location
Margaret was last known to have left her residence in the area of North 25th Street in Omaha. She had left a note saying she was going out with a boy she had recently met. Family and friends have not heard from or seen Margaret since that night.


Name: Margaret Kay Holst
Nickname: Margie
Sex: Female Race: Caucasian
Age: 49 DOB: 1958
Height: 5ft 6in Weight: 125 lbs
Hair: Red Eyes: Blue

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Case: 06330-K

Case officer is Detective Jim Shields (402) 444-4128

I know Margaret has more kinky hair, but I have photos taken around 1975 where I have kinky hair then others not because I set it with twisted rags. I think it's possible this may be a couple of years old where she may have gained some weight in the meantime.
Redhair can vary greatly in color between winter months and summer. My hair was almost strawberry blond in summer, where it was close to auburn in the winter.
What does anyone think regarding Margaret. Does time fit? Do you see any resemblance?
 

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  • margaret holst.jpg
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Imbackon said:
Missing As Of: 8/4/77
Last Known Location
Margaret was last known to have left her residence in the area of North 25th Street in Omaha. She had left a note saying she was going out with a boy she had recently met. Family and friends have not heard from or seen Margaret since that night.


Name: Margaret Kay Holst
Nickname: Margie
Sex: Female Race: Caucasian
Age: 49 DOB: 1958
Height: 5ft 6in Weight: 125 lbs
Hair: Red Eyes: Blue

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Case: 06330-K

Case officer is Detective Jim Shields (402) 444-4128

I know Margaret has more kinky hair, but I have photos taken around 1975 where I have kinky hair then others not because I set it with twisted rags. I think it's possible this may be a couple of years old where she may have gained some weight in the meantime.
Redhair can vary greatly in color between winter months and summer. My hair was almost strawberry blond in summer, where it was close to auburn in the winter.
What does anyone think regarding Margaret. Does time fit? Do you see any resemblance?
Click to expand...

I think they look very similar, especially the nose. The hair seems a slightly different shade of red, but that could be the camera. Margaret was listed as 18 when she disappeared, I think the girl in the pictures looks a bit younger, but again, it's hard to tell. Maybe someone can put up a side-by-side. New info says that Alcala vacationed in Chicago, Washington D.C. and NY, between July 2 1977 and August 15, 1977. So it sounds like he was driving. Yet it also says that he visited family in El Paso, TX on August 11, 1977. So he was definitely getting around! Could he have stopped in Omaha on his way to TX (or returning to NY?), I'm guessing that could definitely be.
 
indiana said:
Here is a third picture of her:

2011323518.jpg
Click to expand...

The wall behind her is much lighter here isn't it? This looks more like the light green wall in the picture of this other gal doesn't it? http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00322.jpg

It absolutely looks like hotel room furniture behind her to me, the standard bureau that they set the tv on. I wonder if this is a motel somewhere in the southwest, due to the color scheme. Bright greens and blues would exist in NM, TX, etc. Although is that a rattan type chair behind her, or is that a huge speaker. If it's a speaker, than that's not a motel room. What collection is this picture from, I hadn't seen it?
 
carbuff said:
But to me, that looks like the pukka shell necklace the girl on the beach is wearing. Is that the same girl as well?
Click to expand...

http://z.about.com/d/crime/1/0/k/C/1/02071.jpg

Here's the photo of the dulcimer girls. I think the pooka shell necklace is different; notice that the red head at green wall has a necklace with some sort of seperator in the shells - like a brass bead; the dulcimer girl's necklace does not.

I don't discount the idea of Alcala using props, or jewelery from other victims; I just don't think these two necklaces match.

ETA: Erm, well...now that I've taken a closer look, they might indeed be the same necklace. The brass seperator may be the clasp; I'd thought it was a repeating bead, but that didn't show to be true.

Best-
Herding Cats
 
Pooka shell necklaces were/are pretty common. It might just be coincidence.

I agree that looks like the necklace clasp, and it strikes me odd that the necklace is turned around like that.
 
Donjeta said:
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/f/franks_elizabeth.html
Here is someone with red hair missing since 1965. There was marital trouble and it sounds like it might have been her husband who killed her but it mentions another man. There is no photo of her but the age progression looks a bit like I imagine this girl might look in 40 years.

http://www.charleyproject.org/images/f/franks_elizabeth.jpg
Click to expand...

I can see the progression similarity too, but how flippin' weird there's no younger picture at all! Did anyone look for her back then? Bizarre.
 
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