UID Victim: "Cherries", Mamaroneck, Blk/Hisp, 605UFNY, found Mar 2007

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Mountain_Kat said:
I don't think that LISK dismembers ANY of his victims.
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You do realize that not all the manorville victims were dismembered? The males dumped with Jessica Taylor and Jane Doe 2000 were not dismembered (modsnip) Probably because know one likes the idea that a serial killer is on the loose killing women, children AND GROWN ADULT MALES! How about the other two male and female dumped at manorville found within the past few years...I believe they werent dismembered either. So you have the Manorville butcher who only dismembers sometimes AND likes to dump all along OP...sometimes the Butcher dismembers and sometimes he doesnt...

but the LISK only dumped the gilgo 4..even tho MBB was last seen at 42/34 street where Jessica Taylor was last seen and they both end up on OP (Jessica's skull anyway)

Where is the logic in two different killers? Show me one ounce of anything that points to manorville and Ocean Parkway being two different Serial Killers with the same MO and I'll show you a rainbow made of solid gold.
 
Logan, here's a very simple reason.....how come none of the manorville bodies were wrapped in burlap?
 
How do we know they weren't wrapped in burlap?
I have a funny feeling that if any more dead bodies have or do turn up on LI wrapped in burlap LE won't be telling us.
 
Because it's not one killer. Especially if you add all of the bodies that "calamity lohan" is adding. And SG wasn't snatched by the catcher in the rye. It's ok to not be up to date on information, to be new to forums, to ask questions that have already been asked but to spew confusion all over the place, and not go back an atleast skim the wealth of knowledge we have all put together over the years is not OK. Adding bodies in forums that it doesn't belong, and citing the comments section of the national inquirer is not helpful.
 
Are there any victims without tattoos? I still think the killer is the tattoo artist
 
Mountain_Kat said:
I don't think that LISK dismembers ANY of his victims.
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Do we know for sure that none of the Gilgo Beach 4 bodies were dismembered? Maybe parts weren't missing but were they in tact (like all the body parts of each were each in a burlap sack)?
 
ktgirl said:
Do we know for sure that none of the Gilgo Beach 4 bodies were dismembered? Maybe parts weren't missing but were they in tact (like all the body parts of each were each in a burlap sack)?
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No, we don't know that. And thanks for the reminder. Its good to keep an open mind. We sure don't know everything that LE knows that for sure.
 
ktgirl said:
Do we know for sure that none of the Gilgo Beach 4 bodies were dismembered? Maybe parts weren't missing but were they in tact (like all the body parts of each were each in a burlap sack)?
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No, I don't think we DO know that with any certainty. What we can say is that no where, in any msm report, do we hear that dismemberment played a part in the GB4 cases. What we can say with certainty, regarding these 4 murders, is that they all followed a very clear, very particular pattern. All of the victims were similar in body type, all were found intact, all were found disposed of close together, all were wrapped in burlap and all died of asphyxiation (in one case, clearly strangulation, since part of a ligature was found on the body). I don't believe the GB4 victims were dismembered...but I can't state that as a fact. I wish I could, since I'm absolutely convinced of it, but for the sake of accuracy...no can do.
 
Mountain_Kat said:
No, I don't think we DO know that with any certainty. What we can say is that no where, in any msm report, do we hear that dismemberment played a part in the GB4 cases. What we can say with certainty, regarding these 4 murders, is that they all followed a very clear, very particular pattern. All of the victims were similar in body type, all were found intact, all were found disposed of close together, all were wrapped in burlap and all died of asphyxiation (in one case, clearly strangulation, since part of a ligature was found on the body). I don't believe the GB4 victims were dismembered...but I can't state that as a fact. I wish I could, since I'm absolutely convinced of it, but for the sake of accuracy...no can do.
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I appreciate posts like this that stress the accuracy of what we know and what we don't. Theories and conjecture are necessary when trying to figure things out, but the facts are more important than anything!

That said, like you Mountain_Kat, I suspect there is *something* substantial--besides dump location--that led LE to include the GB4 in the body count with all the others.

(But, until proven otherwise, I refuse to believe that SG wasn't an intended victim, as she was an escort, fit the body type of the GB4, and her autopsy showed possible signs of strangulation [per Lost Girls].)
 
LikeAHunter said:
I appreciate posts like this that stress the accuracy of what we know and what we don't. Theories and conjecture are necessary when trying to figure things out, but the facts are more important than anything!

That said, like you Mountain_Kat, I suspect there is *something* substantial--besides dump location--that led LE to include the GB4 in the body count with all the others.

(But, until proven otherwise, I refuse to believe that SG wasn't an intended victim, as she was an escort, fit the body type of the GB4, and her autopsy showed possible signs of strangulation [per Lost Girls].)
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For the record, it is my understanding that not all of the investigating officers agreed on whether or not the GB4 were related to the other bodies found. Some did, some didn't. My personal opinion is that the GB4 (and possibly Shannan Gilbert) were victims of one killer. I think the other victims (whole or in parts) were probably gang related. Let's not forget that we have reports of dead dogs and dead chickens found in Manorville as well. If one were to suppose these animals were used for fighting, and were dumped to get rid of the evidence (or simply to dispose of a dead animal), it certainly seems reasonable to me at least consider gang activity with respect to the bodies found there.

Dismemberment is generally a device used to conceal the identity of a victim. Especially when you see hands and heads disposed of in 2 different locations. These were victims that a murderer or murderers didn't want traced back to them. In the case of the GB4, we don't see this pattern at all. I don't believe LISK has any concerns about his victims being traced back to him...because he has no ties to his victims. He shops them, clandestinely courts them, kills them, and then distances himself immediately.


Just my opinion, though.
 
chicoliving said:
On a day the tide turned, the waters of Oyster Bay Harbor gave up some grisly secrets. First, a fisherman found part of a leg among the rocks on Tuesday night. And across the water in the exclusive neighborhood of Cove Neck another body part was sent ashore -- a leg stuffed in a garbage bag found by a landscaper who was working the beachfront property belonging to James Dolan, the CEO of Cablevision Systems Corp. and the chairman of Madison Square Garden, owner of the New York Knicks and New York Rangers.

~snip~

Police may not have to look very far. Authorities think the legs may belong to the torso of a female that washed up in Mamaroneck Bay three weeks ago. The woman's torso was stuffed in a suitcase and had a tattoo on her chest.

"There are certain things that are the same, similarities that make us feel that there's a good possibility that the legs belong to our victim," said Det. Sgt. Robert Holland of the Mamaroneck Police Department.
http://cbs13.com/topstories/topstories_story_088015320.html

Hopefully these cases are related. Ironic that CTV is covering the trial where the victim was found in several suitcases that washed ashore.
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It's seems like an odd coincidence that all the calls/missing people come from Penn/MSG while the leg of likely LISK victim washes up on the owner of MSG's lawn. Perhaps the LISK is very angry bitter knicks fans?
 
The use of burlap seemed non-specific to me at first, but imo it could help narrow down suspect(s) and may be personal connection and related to killer's work or lifestyle. I think that the use of burlap bags has to do with beach erosion or flooding prevention work or possibly construction specific to LI shore. And that the perpetrator used it for camouflage being familiar with sandbags or use of burlap on coast.

See beach erosion: http://www.fws.gov/northeast/nyfo/es/lirecovery.htm

I also found a historical bit about use of burlap bags for human remains in Adirondack blog on Great Sacandaga Lake:

paragragh reads: "Across the valley, the “men in white coats” who haunt Frances White LaPier’s childhood memories—they were called the Bone Yard Gang—came to dig up graves. Between 1928 and 1930, 3,872 graves from twenty-two cemeteries were relocated. “Some remains were shoveled into burlap bags and then placed in a box,” Bowman wrote. “Most were just skull and bones. On some of the more recent burials, the bodied [sic] were ‘ripe’ and the workers would tie handkerchiefs over their faces.”"

http://www.adirondacklifemag.com/blogs/2013/03/18/from-the-archives-the-sacandaga-saga/

The blog is not specifically about Long Island Serial killer(s), but what if the killer used burlap bags because he knew of lake's history/story. ie vacations or worked in Adirondacks around Sacandaga Lake or maybe just read the blog.

It could be landscaping, gardening etc but for some reason I think the perpetrator knew specific use for burlap and it was well thought out for camouflage and it's not unique. But I think burlap is unique and personal to this perpetrator. Plastic bag use may be more haphazardly planned, and not sure but I thought one of the victims was in plastic bag so my guess is he was in a rush or ran out of burlap. IDK just speculation and jmo.
 
BirdycatNY said:
The use of burlap seemed non-specific to me at first, but imo it could help narrow down suspect(s) and may be personal connection and related to killer's work or lifestyle. I think that the use of burlap bags has to do with beach erosion or flooding prevention work or possibly construction specific to LI shore. And that the perpetrator used it for camouflage being familiar with sandbags or use of burlap on coast.

See beach erosion: http://www.fws.gov/northeast/nyfo/es/lirecovery.htm

I also found a historical bit about use of burlap bags for human remains in Adirondack blog on Great Sacandaga Lake:

paragragh reads: "Across the valley, the “men in white coats” who haunt Frances White LaPier’s childhood memories—they were called the Bone Yard Gang—came to dig up graves. Between 1928 and 1930, 3,872 graves from twenty-two cemeteries were relocated. “Some remains were shoveled into burlap bags and then placed in a box,” Bowman wrote. “Most were just skull and bones. On some of the more recent burials, the bodied [sic] were ‘ripe’ and the workers would tie handkerchiefs over their faces.”"

http://www.adirondacklifemag.com/blogs/2013/03/18/from-the-archives-the-sacandaga-saga/

The blog is not specifically about Long Island Serial killer(s), but what if the killer used burlap bags because he knew of lake's history/story. ie vacations or worked in Adirondacks around Sacandaga Lake or maybe just read the blog.

It could be landscaping, gardening etc but for some reason I think the perpetrator knew specific use for burlap and it was well thought out for camouflage and it's not unique. But I think burlap is unique and personal to this perpetrator. Plastic bag use may be more haphazardly planned, and not sure but I thought one of the victims was in plastic bag so my guess is he was in a rush or ran out of burlap. IDK just speculation and jmo.
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hey birdy, what makes you think the sk would be reading or familiar with the adirondacks? that could be a possible influence but it's more likely he was "inspired" by the cleveland torso killer who left dismembered remains in burlap. here is a link to a photo that shows the discovery of a burlap sack containing parts of a victim: http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/unsolved/kingsbury/7d.html

I do like the theory of the sk as a history buff, you can read up on my "underhill massapequa" theory on the melissa b thread if you like.
 
LindsayLohan6 said:
hey birdy, what makes you think the sk would be reading or familiar with the adirondacks? that could be a possible influence but it's more likely he was "inspired" by the cleveland torso killer who left dismembered remains in burlap. here is a link to a photo that shows the discovery of a burlap sack containing parts of a victim: http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/unsolved/kingsbury/7d.html

I do like the theory of the sk as a history buff, you can read up on my "underhill massapequa" theory on the melissa b thread if you like.
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I am not sure that the perpetrator would have a connection to Adirondacks, but if there was it could be related to environmental/conversation work, camping, downstaters may have summer places (hypothetically, while SK was working on a bridge/conservation project upstate he read the paper/article in passing, but it's a stretch). The burlap may be specific to him-his experiences and/or work. If he has historical knowledge, it's more related to community and local history jmo. I think the sk has psychological/sadistic/compulsive fetish issues and somewhat calculating but I am not sure he would research other sks for methodology. The burlap is unique to his life experience and used for convenience/access and camouflage. I think one of the earlier victims was put in a plastic bag, that seems to indicate to me that he is thinking about what's available/convenient to him. all jmo

Thank you for the link, that's very interesting and if this perpetrator does study other sks then he is/will evolve and that's even more troublesome. I will take a look at your theory, thanks for pointing it out.
 
BirdycatNY said:
I am not sure that the perpetrator would have a connection to Adirondacks, but if there was it could be related to environmental/conversation work, camping, downstaters may have summer places (hypothetically, while SK was working on a bridge/conservation project upstate he read the paper/article in passing, but it's a stretch). The burlap may be specific to him-his experiences and/or work. If he has historical knowledge, it's more related to community and local history jmo. I think the sk has psychological/sadistic/compulsive fetish issues and somewhat calculating but I am not sure he would research other sks for methodology. The burlap is unique to his life experience and used for convenience/access and camouflage. I think one of the earlier victims was put in a plastic bag, that seems to indicate to me that he is thinking about what's available/convenient to him. all jmo

Thank you for the link, that's very interesting and if this perpetrator does study other sks then he is/will evolve and that's even more troublesome. I will take a look at your theory, thanks for pointing it out.
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Many of the victims on LI and Brooklyn that were dismembered have been dumped in black garbage bags. Manorville, Sugar Bear, plus many of the unidentified. When he doesn't use garbage bags he uses suitcases. Garbage with human remains have been dumped so frequently off highways in LI i'm starting to wonder if the LISK might be one of the workers who cleans up the garbage on the side of the highway.
 
Im not sure I believe the story about this guy getting ripped off. It would be bad for business. Of course I could be wrong. But I question what does not make sense. This is in response to post #50. I was not able to carry post over for some reason.
 
Lindsay, I was referring to the guy who said he was ripped off at Amber and David S. house.
 
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