Rav4

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about the VIN...

Remiker's testimony....page 139

A Yes. I couldn't read all the VIN numbers and I asked either Lieutenant Hermann or Sergeant Orth for a flashlight because I -- I thought that would help with glares and different -- the lighting conditions weren't the greatest to see, plus the VIN plate was moved or tampered with.
 
MysticJynx said:
With his name suspiciously small and stuck between two others? what was that?
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lol wrong log... that was the March one ;-) the one I just linked was the Nov 5th one, the "car crusher" one
 
It has also been speculated, if one knew what they were doing, VIN's could easily be removed. And TH's was tampered with.
missy1974 said:
There were conflicting reports early on with the color (blue or green) and the year of her vehicle. IMO the different look to the vehicle is because of lighting. Some vehicle colors are just made that way. (my parents own a van that is like a dang chameleon LOL it looks grey or blue or green, depending on the lighting)

Now I do remember seeing a snippet of testimony with one of the officers that said the VIN was tampered with... anyone know which officer that was?
Click to expand...
 
SA is looking more and more like a genius, IMO

( To be able to construct something so, complicated and BIZARRE )

If he is indeed guilty.
 
Who took these photos? Do we know for sure?
( Of RAV4, ALL of them? When it was found? At crime lab? While it was being processed at both locations? )
 
missy1974 said:
lol wrong log... that was the March one ;-) the one I just linked was the Nov 5th one, the "car crusher" one
Click to expand...
Laughs so much evidence hard to keep it all filed away in the right order! ha thanks for clearing that up. so then why was it squeezed in in the March one? that is weird too. Cause really they all knew he shouldn't have been there?

I dont know what I would do with out you Missy, You are helping to keep me organized.
 
And I don't understand the speculation that it wasnt her car at all? Maybe they tampered with it so they could say he tried to remove that too and/or also plant that on him? Anyone ever swab that vin number plate?
 
dexter75 said:
Who took these photos? Do we know for sure?
( Of RAV4, ALL of them? When it was found? At crime lab? While it was being processed at both locations? )
Click to expand...

some were Pam Strum. Ertl (from the lab) went out with a photo guy... Guang Zhang.

While looking for the photographers name... I read this... day 6 pg 14-15 Ertl's testimony... sorry, too lazy to take out the line numbers LOL

9 A. Okay. These cars parked along here were kind of

10 older looking, the paint was faded; they looked

11 like they belonged there in the salvage yard.

12 The RAV4 looked a little different, it was shiny.

13 And it had an old Rambler hood leaned up against

14 the back panel. It had a piece of plywood up

15 against the front end, on the side.

16 It had several tree branches up against

17 the back. Had a cardboard box sitting on the

18 hood. And had quite a large 12 to 15 foot tall

19 tree that kind of looked like it had been ripped

20 out of the ground, still had roots attached, was

21 leaning up against and over the hood. The other

22 vehicles there had been parked there and there

23 were saplings growing up around them. But this

24 one had detached tree limbs and things around it.

25 The Rambler hood and some fence posts

1 were leaned up against the car. The other cars

2 didn't have that sort of stuff around them; the

3 car was sitting there and there was vegetation

4 growing up around them. So it looked a little

5 odd.
 
MysticJynx said:
Laughs so much evidence hard to keep it all filed away in the right order! ha thanks for clearing that up. so then why was it squeezed in in the March one? that is weird too. Cause really they all knew he shouldn't have been there?

I dont know what I would do with out you Missy, You are helping to keep me organized.
Click to expand...

You have no idea how many tabs I have open... LOL It is getting to the point that I know what day someone testified LOL ANDDD I still haven't read it all. Other than Dr. Fairgrieve, I haven't read any other defense testimony, and I have jumped around on the states witnesses, so trying to go back and start from day 1 and go through them... I skip through some that I have read numerous times. SOOO much info! and just wait... in a few days, they will dump another load of documents LOL
 
MysticJynx said:
And I don't understand the speculation that it wasnt her car at all? Maybe they tampered with it so they could say he tried to remove that too and/or also plant that on him? Anyone ever swab that vin number plate?
Click to expand...

Really? bahahahaha you think they would think of that on their own? LOL

I think the vin might have something to do with her vehicle and maybe she didn't even know it. I have seen posts elsewhere that the info is conflicting, even from Toyota. JMO
 
missy1974 said:
You have no idea how many tabs I have open... LOL It is getting to the point that I know what day someone testified LOL ANDDD I still haven't read it all. Other than Dr. Fairgrieve, I haven't read any other defense testimony, and I have jumped around on the states witnesses, so trying to go back and start from day 1 and go through them... I skip through some that I have read numerous times. SOOO much info! and just wait... in a few days, they will dump another load of documents LOL
Click to expand...

Waiting for the Dedering reports.
 
MysticJynx said:
Waiting for the Dedering reports.
Click to expand...

He went to talk to Zipperer... right? He's the one that was waiting in the hallway but Kratz never called him to the stand? Buting/Stang should have grrrrrr
 
dexter75 said:
It has also been speculated, if one knew what they were doing, VIN's could easily be removed. And TH's was tampered with.
Click to expand...

Are you all suggesting a stand in Rav4? But why not just use her Rav4? I have to admit the damage to the car is intriguing. This case just gets weirder...
 
Justiceseeker35 said:
Are you all suggesting a stand in Rav4? But why not just use her Rav4? I have to admit the damage to the car is intriguing. This case just gets weirder...
Click to expand...

Not all lol but yes, it's been speculated. IMO it's the same vehicle, if it wasn't ... Buting and Stang would have been all over that, no?

Whether TH caused the damage.... she hit something... something hit her.... someone hit her... or whoever took the RAV4 damaged it on the way to the Salvage yard.... something happened to the RAV4.

My thought process on it.... hopefully I can make sense haha IF SA damaged the RAV4 taking it (driving or towing) and hiding it there, why would he pick up the signal light and put it in the back of the RAV4? He would, presumably, be driving it through an auto salvage lot.... why not just leave it there and move on, it definitely wouldn't have been out of place lol If TH hit something... maybe an animal (a deer? I would expect more damage, but not always), I can see her pulling over, seeing the light is broken and yanking it out, or picking it up so she doesn't lose it and put it in the back of the RAV4. If someone hit her.... she would pull over... maybe pick it up, put it in the back.

She was missing a tool from the RAV4.... there IS blood spatter on the back door. We know at some point she WAS in the back of that RAV4. It just seems more conceivable to me that she was knocked out or something at the back of her RAV4 while the door was open.... why would her door be open? to put the light in and to get a tool to maybe deal with the wheel well that is now cracked and hitting/rubbing the tire and needed to be removed?
 
Thank you for this thread Missy. The damage to the RAV4 is intriguing to me.
Do we have access to her original missing person's report and is there a description of the car with any mention of damage?
I've looked but don't seem to be able to find it.

I've made no secret of the fact that I think SA is probably guilty, but I just don't buy BD's narrative and am far from convinced that he had any involvement in this, beyond perhaps unwittingly assisting with a clean-up in the garage.
If it could be ascertained that the damage occurred around the time of her murder, I think there may be a different version of events that's a closer fit with the known evidence.

Sadly, I don't think we have the resources to be able to verify / disprove the timing of the damage occurring.
It could have been weeks before her death, it could have been days afterwards . . . but I can't help feeling that it's very relevant and that it wouldn't have been difficult for LE to determine a rough timescale for when it was done by asking her previous clients that day about the condition of the car.

I've already posted this elsewhere, but I still can't get this possible scenario out of my head :

If that damage to her car was recent, I can't help wondering whether perhaps the job want as normal, but she had a minor accident on leaving the junk yard.
Not enough to disable the car, but sufficient that she didn't want to continue her journey without it being checked out.
If phone reception was patchy, what would be more logical than returning to a nearby place where they work on cars to seek assistance from somebody she knows?

A routine photography job, followed by a return visit would tie up a lot of loose ends for me and present a more logical version of what may have happened.

> It fits with the propane guy's potential sighting of the car leaving and the bus driver seeing her performing the job.

> It would make SA's actions opportunist rather than pre-planned - which IMO fits better with his personality and IQ.
I'll willingly accept that he may have been obsessing over Teresa or at the very least had a bit of a 'thing' for her - there's enough out there to suggest that he had a history of that sort of behaviour and I see no reason to doubt the 'towel' story.
However, the idea that he'd planned all of this out or would be stupid enough to attack somebody on his own property when plenty of people knew that she'd be there has never sat right with me.
An unexpected return would give him the opportunity to act on impulse and perhaps even foster the belief that she'd already checked in with Autotrader to say that she'd left the junkyard and nobody knew she had gone back.

> The lack of blood evidence in the garage becomes less of an issue for me if he'd perhaps lured her in there under the pretext of working on her car.
I'm convinced that a clean up occurred in the garage, but what if the clean up was to cover evidence that a car had recently been worked on in there and not to get rid of blood at all?
(This version of events kind of leads me to him lulling her into a false sense of security while he worked on the car and then restraining her or coercing her back into the car with the killing itself occurring somewhere other than on his immediate property - perhaps elsewhere on the junkyard???)
Click to expand...
 
missing poster.jpg

I kinda feel the same way about the damage Sarah, it seems relevant.... somehow. Although I am not convinced it was SA, and I think it is very possible that she left the property and then something happened. As far as I can remember, there was no DNA on that light cover too. But the damage.. the spatter on the back door... knowing she was in the back of the RAV4 at some point.... the missing tool.... I dunno.

As for her previous clients....her first appointment that day, I think the defense asked about her vehicle, he said it looked "new". No mention of damage.

I am not sure about the laws there, but here... driving around with a signal light gone... might get you pulled over, I can't imagine she drove around like that for days or weeks (and no report of an accident)

ETA: sorry the missing poster is not good.... best I could find for now lol
 
missy1974 said:
I am not sure about the laws there, but here... driving around with a signal light gone... might get you pulled over, I can't imagine she drove around like that for days or weeks (and no report of an accident)
Click to expand...

Same here in the UK, but I don't know what the situation would be there either lol

missy1974 said:
ETA: sorry the missing poster is not good.... best I could find for now lol
Click to expand...

Thank You!
It's better than anything I managed to come up with and interestingly there's no mention of damage.

It's just so frustrating that it doesn't appear to have been investigated further at the time or if it was that there doesn't seem to be any publicly available information about it.
I can't shake the feeling that it's an important detail - whichever way it points.
Whether SA is guilty or not, the version of events that BD was fed just doesn't add up at all.
And although, my current feeling is towards SA's guilt I'd be more than happy to revise my opinion as and when I come across new information.
 
Didn't Booby Dassey find a Deer that had been struck by a vehicle near Avery's? If so, what day was that? Nov 3 or...

...closer to Oct 31?
 
It was Nov 3rd or 4th I think Dr. Phail. In SA's first or second interview while he was in Crivitz, he thought it was maybe Monday, but then later said it was later in the week.

The tag said Nov 4th IIRC It was roadkill but they had to call the police, and then get a tag to be able to keep it.

I thought it was an odd coincidence. (but hitting deer there is probably not all that odd LOL)
 
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