Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #5

Sutton · May 19, 2016

Parkie said:
...You imagine it. She struggles, He lets her know this is not funny at all (for him) in no uncertain terms. The gold skirt get rips off for a souvenir & she gets a nasty frontal head bump or 2 to show. If not a flattened nose.. For sure.

Snipped. Was her skirt actually gold or is this just a turn of phrase? It is this something you remember from original reports? I'm curious bc I've only seen the same version copied and pasted/reprinted online.

papertrail said:
watch the ABC vids I linked everyone to last week - his pic is on there...

Snipped. Can someone who is able to see ML's face post a screenshot? I cannot access the videos (cannot even see the video link/play button), possibly bc I'm not down under ;-)

Sutton · May 19, 2016

88mph said:
I'm going to email Estelle Blackburn a list of questions about ML.

Please list your questions and I'll fire them off...

Snipped.

6. Can you provide any timeline details as to ML's whereabouts? (When did he come to WA? Out-of-state or out of country trips? Prison stints?)
7. Would he have been able to talk JR into willingly getting into his car?
8. Does she think the profile fits ML?
9. Does she still think ML may have been the CSK?

enzeder · May 19, 2016

papertrail said:
I think it's Mony Leucus. Watch the vid in this link below and go to the 27min30secs mark. One of his victims gives a graphic description of a terrible beating at his hands, being abducted, needled with heroin (in her view that was the substance) and the woman says he was a heroin dealer, and she detailed he had a (fully) plastic-lined boot in his vehicle on the day of the vicious attack. Click on the 'before you leap' link.

I think the ex policeman indicated it was 2001 that he'd come across the lined-boot guy and it fits perfectly in Leucus's timeline.

There is a vid still of Jane Rimmer scene that I had not seen before; it is obvious this was taken a short time after the discovery on 3 August 1996.

http://www.abc.net.au/austory/specials/beforeyouleap2/default.htm

Thankyou to everyone that have sent me private messages wondering if I am safe and healthy. Yes I am thankyou, have been very busy of late but have only recently been able to pop back onto the site to check if there's been any progress.

Re the BBM ^ - I've been trying to figure out the actual year it was when Con Bayens came across the plastic lined boot individual. Looking at the two excerpts below, I'm thinking that it was in 2002?.

READ THE STATEMENT FROM WA POLICE
Sunday Night on May 31, 2015
https://au.news.yahoo.com/sunday-ni...ence-with-wa-police-about-claremont-killings/

Bartholemeus · May 19, 2016

http://www.abc.net.au/austory/content/2007/s2089795.htm

Excerpt;

CAPTION:
January 2000
Blackburn's ex-boyfriend was charged with 'threatening to kill'. He was bailed on condition of no contact with his victim.
Blackburn's ex-boyfriend made 960 phone calls and stalked his victim.
May 2000
He was arrested and charged again.
This time he was denied bail.
The woman's name has been suppressed by court order.

ESTELLE BLACKBURN: She bravely stood up to him. She had him charged. He was in prison for various offences against her. He went to a fellow prisoner offering him $10,000 plus her jewellery to organise a hit man against her. The prisoner went to the authorities and he was duly charged with that and given a longer sentence.

So it looks like he was jailed in May 2000 without parole which suggests he stayed in jail until his trial. He was then found guilty and given extra time. If you're denied parole then it's usually for something reasonably serious. Then he was charged with trying to organise a hit.

I think it's likely he was in jail the whole time Bayens' hooker op was operational.

Another issue I have with ML being the CSK is he doesn't fit the profile. He's a violent person who most likely assaults his partners because he has an ego problem. He seems to have to have control over his women and if he doesn't he feels insecure and reacts with violence. It seems to be based around some sort of insecurity where the CSK probably is sexually turned on by control. I think ML would be more likely to kill a girlfriend rather than a random. Even if he was able to control himself and then go and take it out on random girls, why all in Claremont? If his motivation to kill was to take out frustrations on his girlfriends on other random girls (to avoid detection) then I doubt he would have a need to focus on one geographic area.

88mph · May 19, 2016

Hi Estelle,

We hope this email reaches you.

Myself and some other keen web sleuths have taken a keen interest in the Claremont Serial Killer Case. You're probably aware that quite an active thread on this case exists here:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...h-Western-Australia-5&p=12570922#post12570922

The thread has taken a focus on Mony Lucas of late and we wanted to ask you some questions to help clarify some points within our sleuthing. If you decide to answer these questions I intend to publish the answers on the site for others to read, however if you'd rather that not occur, I can circulate via private message to the others.

Based on the evidence at hand, we have the following scenario with ML as the POI:

Karrakatta: Blitz attack
SS: Taxi
JR: Picked up/charmed
GC: Taxi

Current location: Prison

The questions:
1. Does the above scenario fit for ML?
2. Do you think Mystery Man looks like ML?
3. What cars did he own around Karrakatta and JR attacks?
4. Did he have any connections to the dump sites?
5. Do you think he was capable or available for Karrakatta?
6. Do you think he was the guy that Con Bayens stumbled across in HIghgate with the plastic lined boot?
7. Can you provide any timeline details as to ML's whereabouts? (When did he come to WA? Out-of-state or out of country trips? Prison stints?)
8. Would he have been able to talk JR into willingly getting into his car?
9. Does she think the profile fits ML?
10. Does she still think ML may have been the CSK?

We understand if you don't reply but we would really appreciate some new information.

Regards

Web-sleuths

crabstick · May 19, 2016

Can someone be a bit more definitive about which video to get a screenshot?
http://www.abc.net.au/austory/specials/beforeyouleap2/default.htm

Sutton said:
papertrail said:

watch the ABC vids I linked everyone to last week - his pic is on there
BTW ML is the only one that I have heard of that had a boot lined with plastic. DM at the time of the attempted murder he was convicted of, was driving a station wagon - they do not have boots to line with plastic - yes they do have storage capacity but it could not be described as a boot.

the woman who described ML's boot being lined with plastic is on the same vid I refer to above and last week. seek and you will find.

Click to expand...

Snipped. Can someone who is able to see ML's face post a screenshot? I cannot access the videos (cannot even see the video link/play button), possibly bc I'm not down under ;-)

crabstick · May 19, 2016

In a world where unsubstantiated police rumour stated measures to prevent DNA evidence took place. It was early days in DNA. There wasn't even a govt DNA lab. Completely unsubstantiated, but who would be of such a mind to prevent that occurring at the time?
Based on the unsubstantiated police rumour within two weeks of one the crimes, this is not really a David Birnie. Your common criminal wouldn't have contemplated DNA.
Is this why police really took to focus on these particular crimes?
Even police procedures for murder scene were not up to speed on DNA corruption.

Who would have the skills and knowledge in the early period of DNA crime evidence to do this?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reference: Debi, Marshall, 2007. The Devil's Garden: The Claremont Serial Killings. 2nd ed. Australia: Random House.

Bartholemeus · May 19, 2016

crabstick said:
Can someone be a bit more definitive about which video to get a screenshot?

Image does not exist in video. Image is in papertrail's head. Here is screenshot;

Probably not MM.

crabstick · May 19, 2016

Sarah Spiers abducted from 347 Stirling highway, Jane Rimmer discovered 35 kilometres 180 degrees south of the GPO.
Purely coincidence surely. Does UWA have printing clothes line? Obviously it has a DNA course

crabstick · May 19, 2016

Looks more like a protein

Oh, a PAP smear?

Bartholemeus said:
Image does not exist in video. Image is in papertrail's head. Here is screenshot;

View attachment 94883

Probably not MM.

enzeder · May 19, 2016

For those of you who are unable to view the 'He Who Waits' video I posted some screen shots in the Media-Timelines-Photos thread.

Replicas of clothing/property
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...hotos-*NO-DISCUSSION*&p=12572876#post12572876

Replicas of clothing/property
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...hotos-*NO-DISCUSSION*&p=12572878#post12572878

Sutton · May 20, 2016

enzeder said:
For those of you who are unable to view the 'He Who Waits' video I posted some screen shots in the Media-Timelines-Photos thread...

Thank you! Wonder why Jane's shirt is navy in that pic? Maybe that's where Debi Marshall got her info?

Also, from the transcript:

Caporn: I think one of the very tangible ways that this crime could be solved is in the tracing of the particularly significant items of jewellery that are missing in relation to this case.

Police re-enactment video 1997: Ciara has a silver watch and silver earrings - two in the left ear, one in the right - and had a distinctive Claddagh brooch pinned to her jacket.

And Ms Blackburn is says that Macro really focused on whether ML had given her any jewelry.

This is new info to me.

Parkie · May 20, 2016

Sorry Sutton. I was using some poetic licence with my last comment re a gold skirt. But the CSK is most likely to have ripped it off her. Could be another pub goer, who knows.

Sprintman · May 20, 2016

Ex Telstra car just sold in Perth.. Wonder if it could tell some
stories?

Basilisk · May 20, 2016

Sutton said:
Thank you! Wonder why Jane's shirt is navy in that pic? Maybe that's where Debi Marshall got her info?
.

For the record, when the JR security camera video was released the Police noted that the shades of clothing etc appeared different to how they would in life.

Having in the 1990s personally been the proud owner of some indigo jeans made from a then popular fabric brand name "tencel", I can assure you that they appeared very light grey or white on camera. I expect Jane's top was made of the same stuff.

BenJones84 · May 20, 2016

Sprintman said:
Ex Telstra car just sold in Perth.. Wonder if it could tell some
stories?

Interesting.. here is the photo of the back of that car from the ad, and one where the red colours are enhanced

Elwood_1 · May 20, 2016

Ligature burns to neck. Take a look.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3600207/Rope-burn-neck-black-girl-12-ignites-dispute.html

It almost looks like a blade mark.

346F43D200000578-3600207-Mother_Sandy_Rougely_claimed_her_daughter_was_the_victim_of_raci-m-1_1463777898467.jpg

enzeder · May 20, 2016

papertrail said:
There is a vid still of Jane Rimmer scene that I had not seen before; it is obvious this was taken a short time after the discovery on 3 August 1996.

http://www.abc.net.au/austory/specials/beforeyouleap2/default.htm

RSBM BBM ^ Is this the one papertrail?.

Image from video at link. (15:49)

Video: Before You Leap - Australian Story
http://www.abc.net.au/austory/specials/beforeyouleap2/default.htm

crabstick · May 20, 2016

A Telstra vehicle would give prospective passengers a false sense of security when entering a government vehicle

There is the potential that a Telstra worker listened into telephone conversations, knowing prior where the person would be?
Did Hayley Dodd make a call prior from a public phone box in Badgingarra when she arrived in town? There were a number of Telstra workers in the area at the time?

Telstra workers are quite mobile. Telstra workers had smelled a smell days prior Ciaras discovery on Pippidinny road presuming the smell being deceased wildlife.

BenJones84 said:
Interesting.. here is the photo of the back of that car from the ad, and one where the red colours are enhanced

elastic · May 20, 2016

Elwood_1 said:
Ligature burns to neck. Take a look.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3600207/Rope-burn-neck-black-girl-12-ignites-dispute.html

It almost looks like a blade mark.

You would have to definitely assume that insects would almost certainly attack an area like this in a decomposed body. Maybe they were strangled. Its never been proven if they were or were not and if insect activity is the basis for that assumption then it has so many flaws its unbelievable.

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