Transgender considerations in UID remains and missing/murder investigations

dotr said:

From this article UID with red shoes is identified as male..

Apr. 10, 2009
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...usion-to-42-year-old-mystery/article17940176/

rbbm.

3.

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It's complicated when dealing with trans people. They are identified as male/ female according to what gender they are born with. The only clues we will get if they were living as the opposite gender is if they are newly deceased, it will be obvious by the opposite genitals, or with a born as male living female, breast implants. Once they are deceased to skeletal you would find breast implants with the remains that will give clues they changed genders but in our case, we do not have note of any being found. If he was cross dressing, you would find women's under garments, a binding to hold male genitals in. There are also tests that can be run to see if Estrogen is found in their bodies.

Here is the case I was telling you about yesterday. When found they assumed the skeletal remains were female due to breast implants. They also thought she had given birth too; after DNA testing they determined she was born male, had estrogen therapy which changed her bones. I have to go back over her case as it's been months

Julie's NamUs


"Julie Doe" - Transgender woman likely murdered in 1988, believed to be cisgender for 27 years

After two unidentified women in Florida were Identified by DNA as missing women previously ruled out as being matches, Florida started re-examining all their unidentified decedent cases with fresh eyes. The new medical examiner immediately thought her skeletal dimensions indicated someone who had a hormonal balance more typical of males during skeletal growth, but once they were sure they had the right body they sent off the DNA. The results came back this month showing that she had an XY genotype, which rules out previous pregnancy.

The changes to her pelvic bones thought to indicate childbirth were likely the result of years of estrogen therapy. Her 250cc silicone breast implants, according to an expert in 1988, had been discontinued five years before her death. This means she likely had her upper body reassignment no later than 1984, since surgeons in the United States rarely implant medical devices more than a year after they are manufactured. Her rhinoplasty may have been done as a part of her transition and/or to treat the cosmetic results of prior facial trauma.

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This 1988 sketch is the only face we have for "Julie Doe" until a new reconstruction is released. Do you know her? (Image courtesy of the Orlando Sentinel)

New Sketch of "Julie Doe", Transgender Woman Still Unidentified After 27 Years - By Maracat - Saturday Nov 21, 2015 · 8:05 PM EST

She was between the ages of 22 and 35 according to her profile on the National Missing and Unidentified Persons System, or NamUs, and was about 5'10 with naturally brown hair. Her upper body reassignment surgery was likely done no later than 1984, because her 250cc silicone breast implants had been discontinued for five years at the time of her death, and was most likely performed in either Miami, Atlanta, New Orleans, New York City, or California. She also had a rhinoplasty, and had likely been on hormonal therapy for several years before her death.

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This transgender woman was believed to have given birth before recent DNA testing proved that was impossible. Image courtesy of the Orlando Sentinel

This is kind if o/t, but I saw on a Forensic Files one time how one person's DNA originally didn't match, but come to find out its because they were chimera, had 2 sets of dna.

margarita25 said:

This is kind if o/t, but I saw on a Forensic Files one time how one person's DNA originally didn't match, but come to find out its because they were chimera, had 2 sets of dna.

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Thanks, that is always in the back of my mind, especially with Racine Jane Doe and Aundria Bowman. I was shocked she wasn't a match.

Roselvr said:

Thanks, that is always in the back of my mind, especially with Racine Jane Doe and Aundria Bowman. I was shocked she wasn't a match.

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You're welcome. (I can't remember, though, if this was in regards to a UID or the perp. I think it might have been the perp's dna...)

This is the correct thread for the transgendered UID, incorrectly, (sorry!) discussed on this thread.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...le-1084UMON-20-40-Likely-Transgendered-Jul-80
Canada - Markham ON, WhtMale 1084UMON, 20-40, Likely Transgendered, Jul'80

sillybilly said:

This post lands at random.

These various cases are all interesting and important, and deserve their own dedicated threads here at WS, but carbuff opened this thread to discuss:

Related: if a transgendered person is missing, do they get listed under their sex at birth, or the sex they lived as?

Pointers to detailed discussion would be most welcome.

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We have been discussing that. We've been trying to work on the man in red heels, figuring out if he was trans or cross dressed.
I brought Julie Doe here to show Dot how they knew she was transgender.

I came across this guy and thought the same thing, there should be a section dedicated to transgender and or cross dressing men. Especially if they show up unidentified. thank you carbuff for this thread..
This John doe seemed like a crossdresser since he was found with a bra and sponge falsies


http://coroner.smcgov.org/john-doe-83-26-case-83-1063

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/773umca.html

The victim was discovered on November 26, 1983 in San Mateo County, California
•estimated Date of death: November 25, 1983

Vital Statistics

•Estimated age: 19 - 25 years old
•Approximate Height and Weight: 5'10-5'11"; 140 lbs.
•Distinguishing Characteristics: Short, brown hair; hazel eyes. No marks nor tattoos.
•Dentals: Available
•Clothing: Female clothing. Light yellow, knee-length "clam diggers". Light yellow jacket. Multicolored turtleneck T-shirt. Black, nylon net stockings. Brown pantyhose. Blue, bikini-style underpants (size small) "North Beach". Beige lace underpants. Beige bra and sponge "falsies".
•Jewelry: White metal necklace with crucifix pendant. Two white metal rings.
•Fingerprints: Available
•DNA: Available


The victim was located on November 26, 1983, at approximately 08.33 , on Lower Pillar Point / Ocean Beach in Half Moon Bay.

sillybilly said:

This post lands at random.

These various cases are all interesting and important, and deserve their own dedicated threads here at WS, but carbuff opened this thread to discuss:

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madamx said:

I came across this guy and thought the same thing, there should be a section dedicated to transgender and or cross dressing men. Especially if they show up unidentified. thank you carbuff for this thread..
This John doe seemed like a crossdresser since he was found with a bra and sponge falsies


http://coroner.smcgov.org/john-doe-83-26-case-83-1063

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/773umca.html

The victim was discovered on November 26, 1983 in San Mateo County, California
•estimated Date of death: November 25, 1983

Vital Statistics

•Estimated age: 19 - 25 years old
•Approximate Height and Weight: 5'10-5'11"; 140 lbs.
•Distinguishing Characteristics: Short, brown hair; hazel eyes. No marks nor tattoos.
•Dentals: Available
•Clothing: Female clothing. Light yellow, knee-length "clam diggers". Light yellow jacket. Multicolored turtleneck T-shirt. Black, nylon net stockings. Brown pantyhose. Blue, bikini-style underpants (size small) "North Beach". Beige lace underpants. Beige bra and sponge "falsies".
•Jewelry: White metal necklace with crucifix pendant. Two white metal rings.
•Fingerprints: Available
•DNA: Available


The victim was located on November 26, 1983, at approximately 08.33 , on Lower Pillar Point / Ocean Beach in Half Moon Bay.

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Just about to start a thread for this UID, and lo and behold, there already is one!
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ovember+26,+1983+San+Mateo+County,+California

CA - San Mateo County - WhtMale 773UMCA, 19-25, Female Clothing, Nov'83

I don't know if this guy has a thread for him but I found this john doe also and seemed like a crossdresser also.. I don't know if this is the thread to at least bring all the people that fit under the category and at least they will be in one thread before they move to their own. I don't know just thinking out loud. I wish there were better photos of the jewelry or even of the clothing.

http://doenetwork.org/cases/77umtx.html

Unidentified Black Male
•Located on July 10, 1986 at 2500 Wentworth at Live Oak, in Houston, Harris County, Texas.
•Estimated Date of Death: The victim died the same day that he was located.
•Cause of Death: Homicide by strangulation, possibly with pantyhose.

•Estimated age: 20-30 years old
•Approximate Height and Weight: 5'7-5'9; 155-165 lbs.
•Distinguishing Characteristics: Short, black, kinky hair; brown eyes. His ears were both pierced four times and he wore four earrings in each ear. He wore gold nail polish on his fingernails. He had needle marks on both arms.
•Clothing: He was wearing pink pants; a gray t-shirt; a black leather belt with studded spikes; a silver chain; silver ring and a gold ring with a clear stone.
•Tattoos: He had a tattoo of a heart with a scroll on inside of his left forearm.
•Fingerprints: Available.

The victim was located in the 2500 block of Wentworth near Live Oak on the south side of Houston, Texas on July 10, 1986.

madamx said:

I don't know if this guy has a thread for him but I found this john doe also and seemed like a crossdresser also.. I don't know if this is the thread to at least bring all the people that fit under the category and at least they will be in one thread before they move to their own. I don't know just thinking out loud. I wish there were better photos of the jewelry or even of the clothing.

http://doenetwork.org/cases/77umtx.html

Unidentified Black Male
•Located on July 10, 1986 at 2500 Wentworth at Live Oak, in Houston, Harris County, Texas.
•Estimated Date of Death: The victim died the same day that he was located.
•Cause of Death: Homicide by strangulation, possibly with pantyhose.

•Estimated age: 20-30 years old
•Approximate Height and Weight: 5'7-5'9; 155-165 lbs.
•Distinguishing Characteristics: Short, black, kinky hair; brown eyes. His ears were both pierced four times and he wore four earrings in each ear. He wore gold nail polish on his fingernails. He had needle marks on both arms.
•Clothing: He was wearing pink pants; a gray t-shirt; a black leather belt with studded spikes; a silver chain; silver ring and a gold ring with a clear stone.
•Tattoos: He had a tattoo of a heart with a scroll on inside of his left forearm.
•Fingerprints: Available.

The victim was located in the 2500 block of Wentworth near Live Oak on the south side of Houston, Texas on July 10, 1986.

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Thanks for bringing attention to these UID people!
This is the thread,heading there now to bump.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...,+Houston,+Harris+County,+Texas.#post11478902
TX - Houston, BlkMale 77UMTX, 23-40, found strangled, Jul'86

Here is another guy crossdresser found in Missouri April 19 2003 . With a bra leotard and pantyhose. He is white male and 62' pretty tall.


http://ktla.com/2016/06/07/large-alligator-found-eating-mans-body-in-florida-lake/

madamx said:

Here is another guy crossdresser found in Missouri April 19 2003 . With a bra leotard and pantyhose. He is white male and 62' pretty tall.


http://ktla.com/2016/06/07/large-alligator-found-eating-mans-body-in-florida-lake/

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I think you have the wrong link. This appears to have happened in Florida yesterday. All that known is its a white male who's body has been in the water 24 hours. They're not sure if he alligator killed him or not but my guess would be no.

Alligator Found With Man’s Body in Its Mouth in Florida Lake - POSTED 3:07 PM, JUNE 7, 2016, BY TRIBUNE MEDIA WIRE
The person’s identity is not known.

The condition of body indicated it had likely been in the water at least a day, *advertiser censored*Lakeland Police Department sergeant told the local newspaper, the Ledger.

madamx said:

Here is another guy crossdresser found in Missouri April 19 2003 . With a bra leotard and pantyhose. He is white male and 62' pretty tall.


http://ktla.com/2016/06/07/large-alligator-found-eating-mans-body-in-florida-lake/

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Doe Network Case File: 1785UMMO -
Unidentified Male
Date of Discovery: April 19, 2003
Location of Discovery: Jackson County, Missouri
Estimated Date of Death: 3 months prior to discovery
State of Remains: Not recognizable - Decomposing/putrefaction
Cause of Death: Unknown

Physical Description
** Listed information is approximate

Estimated Age: 50-70 years old
Race: White
Gender: Male
Height: 6'2"
Weight: 172 lbs.
Hair Color: Brown
Eye Color: Unknown

Distinguishing Marks/Features: Surgical scars in chest area and diaphragm region. Metal wire binding right clavicle (collar bone) together.

Dentals: Available
Fingerprints: Not available
DNA: Unknown. Full body x-rays available.
Clothing & Personal Items
Clothing: Purple/green/blue button down dress shirt, leotard with built in bra with thin straps, blue jeans, dark blue panty hose, and white socks.

Jewelry: None listed

Additional Personal Items: None listed

Case History

The decedent was recovered from the Missouri River at mile 340, in Jackson County, Missouri on April 19, 2003.

Investigating Agency(s)
If you have any information about this case please contact;

Agency Name: Missouri State Highway Patrol
Agency Contact Person: Clara Land
Agency Phone Number: 573-526-6178
Agency Fax Number: 573-526-5577
E-Mail 1
E-Mail 2

Agency Name: Office of the Jackson County Medical Examiner
Agency Contact Person: N/A
Agency Phone Number: 816-881-6600

Agency Case Number: 030589
NCIC Case Number: U330005885
NamUs Case Number: UP #5304
Former Hot Case Number: 1748

OMG ROSELVR YOUR SO RIGHT!!! DUH!!!.. IAM SORRY.. I had that screen opened also and I guess that is what I copied.. hahaha
Yes you know that unidentified crossdresser with the alligator!!!! hahaha.. omg I cant believe I did that!
Thank you for catching that and reposting the correct link!!!! xoxo

Roselvr said:

I think you have the wrong link. This appears to have happened in Florida yesterday. All that known is its a white male who's body has been in the water 24 hours. They're not sure if he alligator killed him or not but my guess would be no.

Alligator Found With Man’s Body in Its Mouth in Florida Lake - POSTED 3:07 PM, JUNE 7, 2016, BY TRIBUNE MEDIA WIRE
The person’s identity is not known.

The condition of body indicated it had likely been in the water at least a day, *advertiser censored*Lakeland Police Department sergeant told the local newspaper, the Ledger.

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ok here is another crossdresser (without an alligator hehe)

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/3732dmtx.html

James H Mayberry, Jr.
Missing since April 1, 1999 from Kenedy, Karnes County, Texas
Classification: Endangered Missing


Date Of Birth: December 1, 1963
•Age at Time of Disappearance: 35 years old
•Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'7"; 170 lbs.
•Distinguishing Characteristics: Black male. Brown eyes; shoulder-length black hair with extensions, pulled back into a ponytail.
•Medical: Disabled with heart, respiratory, liver and blood pressure problems. He left all of his medication at home.
•Clothing: He is a cross dresser and usually carries a small brown purse. He was last seen wearing a beige long sleeve button down shirt with no collar, khaki shorts, and ladies white slip-on tennis shoes. Mr. Mayberry was also wearing a "Victoria Secret" forest green padded bra, ladies panties and carrying a black patent clutch purse.
•AKA: Jamie

Circumstances of Disappearance
Mayberry was last seen leaving his Kenedy home on April 1 with a stranger, telling his niece that he was going to the store and would be right back. On the night he disappeared, a man knocked on his front door, and even though Mayberry was heard to say he didn't know the man, he left with him anyway. Mayberry never returned.

Although his niece didn't see the vehicle they left in, others have reported seeing him that night in a black truck. Later, two men banged on the door, but left in a loud truck after his niece said Mayberry was not there.
The family and police have suspected foul play because he left without his medication and without waiting to get his disability check, his only source of income.


Foul play or possibly a hate crime may be involved because Mayberry is a homosexual.
He is described as very trusting and friendly.
Family, friends, peace officers and volunteers from the Heidi Search Center in San Antonio combed the area for over two weeks looking for him, but were not successful.

here is another one
http://doenetwork.org/cases/2257umaz.html

Unidentified Male
◾Date of Discovery: April 9, 1977
◾Location of Discovery: Maricopa County, Arizona.
◾Estimated Date of Death: April 9, 1977
◾State of Remains: Not recognizable - Charred/burned
◾Cause of Death: Unknown


Estimated Age: 25-40 years old
◾Race: White
◾Gender: Male
◾Height: 5'7"
◾Weight: 122 lbs.
◾Hair Color: Brown
◾Eye Color: Brown


◾Distinguishing Marks/Features: Unknown


◾Dentals: Edentulous.
◾Fingerprints: Not available.
◾DNA: Not available.
Clothing: Blue tank top and women’s panties.


◾Jewelry: Unknown


◾Additional Personal Items: A sleeping bag.

Case History

The victim's charred remains were located near 59th Avenue and Happy Valley Road.

here is another one
http://doenetwork.org/cases/2127umaz.html


Unidentified Male
◾Date of Discovery: July 23, 2004
◾Location of Discovery: Rio Rico, Santa Cruz County, Arizona
◾Estimated Date of Death: 2004
◾State of Remains: Not recognizable - Partial skeletal parts only
◾Cause of Death: Unknown

Estimated Age: 18-65 years old
◾Race: Unknown
◾Gender: Male
◾Height: 4'10" to 5'0"
◾Weight: Unknown
◾Hair Color: Unknown
◾Eye Color: Unknown


◾Distinguishing Marks/Features: Unknown


◾Dentals: Not available. No cranium, mandible, nor dentition was recovered.
◾Fingerprints: Not available.
◾DNA: mtDNA and nucDNA available in NDIS

Clothing: Black panties and a brown shoe.

◾Jewelry: Unknown

◾Additional Personal Items: Unknown

The victim's skeletal remains were recovered from a water treatment plant in Rio Rico.

Originally thought to be female, the remains were confirmed via DNA to be those of a male.

another one

http://doenetwork.org/cases/2719ummd.html

Date of Discovery: May 19, 1978
Location of Discovery: College Park, Prince George's County, Maryland
Estimated Date of Death: 1977 to 1978
State of Remains: Not recognizable - Partial skeletal parts only
Cause of Death: Unknown

Physical Description

Estimated Age: 30-45 years old
Race: Black
Gender: Male
Height: 5'11"
Weight: Unknown
Hair Color: Black, kinky and 5 inches long.
Eye Color: Unknown
Distinguishing Marks/Features: Previous right foot bone fracture. Healed nose fracture

Identifiers

Dentals: Available. Periodontal disease.
Fingerprints: Not Available
DNA: Not Available

Clothing & Personal Items

Clothing: Boxer shorts.
Jewelry: Gold post earring.
Additional Personal Items: Female clothing was found with the decedent: Purple shirt, dark purple panty hose, one black shoelace, pair of white bedroom slippers, flowered-type dark blue blouse, and a white slip. Faded green seven foot long sleeping bag.

Circumstances of Discovery

The decedent was found lying on the ground in a sleeping bag in a wooded area that had been the back yard of a private residence that had been torn down on March 7, 1978