EVIDENCE - Pro and Con #2

I guess it was the DV link's referral to 'other kidnapping charges' that created a context for me.

But, I'll say this about the state's case: Even if their next game is to shoot for the lure theory, which apparently will have a 'wouldn't let her leave' angle to it - or something like that - I don't think anyone's ever going to jail for murder, and I think the state has the same problem with kidnapping as it does with murder. It all happened at PTL. And where is Heather?

JMO

Unfortunately, I agree with you on the murder charges and I wish the entire investigation had been handled properly from the beginning.

It's difficult to have faith that the state will find any justice at all for Heather at this point. But I'm trying to find a tiny ray of hope, against all odds, that the Ms won't escape from this thing free and clear.

Thanks for reminding me of the bigger issue here... where is Heather? Because finding her would trump everything. I'm just terrified that we never will.
 
Unfortunately, I agree with you on the murder charges and I wish the entire investigation had been handled properly from the beginning.

It's difficult to have faith that the state will find any justice at all for Heather at this point. But I'm trying to find a tiny ray of hope, against all odds, that the Ms won't escape from this thing free and clear.

Thanks for reminding me of the bigger issue here... where is Heather? Because finding her would trump everything. I'm just terrified that we never will.

I know. And that's the enraging part of all of this. I believe that the failed/rushed investigation in the beginning thwarted a better effort to find her. Remember when they said early on that, essentially, they might not, or likely wouldn't, ever find her? And they decided right after the arrest that it wouldn't be a DP case? It appears they've always known they'd never have a body.

So, what about her disappearance told them that?
 
I know we've discussed this before, but it hasn't come up for as long as I can remember...

Heather's computer.

Did she even have one or a laptop when she moved in with BW? Or, was she using BW's when she posted on Tumblr after her date?

I know that her parents were planning to give her a laptop for Christmas. :facepalm:

So, I am under the assumption that she didn't have her own or maybe just an old/outdated one possibly? Guess we won't know until we see all the evidence?

But, LE should have definitely scoured that thing. Just seems odd, there hasn't been much mention of it in terms of any other solid communications or possible evidence. :moo:
 
I know we've discussed this before, but it hasn't come up for as long as I can remember...

Heather's computer.

Did she even have one or a laptop when she moved in with BW? Or, was she using BW's when she posted on Tumblr after her date?

I know that her parents were planning to give her a laptop for Christmas. :facepalm:

So, I am under the assumption that she didn't have her own or maybe just an old/outdated one possibly? Guess we won't know until we see all the evidence?

But, LE should have definitely scoured that thing. Just seems odd, there hasn't been much mention of it in terms of any other solid communications or possible evidence. :moo:
I don't recall if she had a PC or laptop. If nothing else she could access social media on her phone.....which, come to think of it, could have been done from any location.

Sent from my Trio AXS using Tapatalk
 
Now that the first kidnapping trial has happened, can we revisit the evidence?
 
Now that the first kidnapping trial has happened, can we revisit the evidence?

Agree we need to add in the new information. Given SM's attitude at the end of day 3, I think something significant was revealed. And we have the smarts here to figure it out.
 
Latest timeline. Thanks JerseyGirl!

ok, how's this:

Nov 19: The M family left on a cross-country driving trip to Disneyland in California
Dec 4/5: Heather moved into the apartment with BW
Dec 11: The M family returned home from their trip to California [SM's cellphone has been off since just prior to returning from cross country driving trip to Disneyland]

HEATHER'S PHONE ACTIVITY, December 18:

1:35am incoming call (payphone) 298 seconds
3 outgoing calls:
1:44 am (to Bri) 132 seconds
1:53-2:09 am 10 posts to HE Tumblr
2:29 am (to payphone) 12 seconds -says that if someone answered it would have been short call
2:30:15 am (to payphone) 4.8 seconds

2:32 am to 2:41am phone is in motion

2:32:57 am Outgoing Call (to payphone) 13.8 seconds

2:42:14 am -2:56 am phone is located at Long Beard's Restaurant (N, NE corner of parking lot by the dumpster) 14 minutes at location- made 4 outgoing calls:
2:43 am Outgoing to (payphone) 7.2 seconds
2:43:36 am Outgoing (to payphone) 7 something
2:45 am (outgoing to payphone) .2 seconds
2:51 am (outgoing to payphone) 4.8 seconds

2:57-3:01:am No call activity during this time, phone only in motion, Long Beard's to HE's Apartment, turned around and went back towards Long Beard's)
~3:00 am SM's phone is turned on. [It has been turned off since just prior to December 11 upon return from Disneyland]

3:01-3:15 am phone was located at her apartment
3:04 am Outgoing Call (to payphone) 1.8seconds
3:05 am Outgoing Call (to payphone)

3:16 am Phone in motion to apt
2 Outgoing calls
3:16 am (to SM cell) 7.8 seconds
3:17am (to SM cell) 249 seconds- 4 mins 9 seconds

Phone was in parking lot 3:20 am -3:24am Phone was NOT in motion, located at apartment parking lot while on phone with SM cell.

3:25-3:35 am Phone moved from Apt complex to PTL (no calls while in motion)
3:36am: A security camera at a private residence 1.7 miles from the M home recorded a distinctive late-model Ford F150 coming from that direction and heading toward Peachtree Landing
3:37 am Phone located at PTL

4 outgoing calls to SM while phone at PTL
3:38:14 am (1.8 seconds)
3:39:00 am (1.8 seconds)
3:39am: A security camera at a business D&S Siteworks 1.2 miles from Peachtree Landing recorded the Ford F150 heading toward the landing
3:39:46 am (1.8 seconds)
3:41:05 am (1.8 seconds)

3:42:27 am No further incoming or outgoing calls. No further location coordinates obtained.

3:45am: The security camera at D&S Siteworks recorded the Ford F150 returning from the direction of Peachtree Landing

3:46am: The security camera at the same private residence recorded the Ford F150 returning from the direction of Peachtree Landing toward the M home
 
It only takes about 5 minutes to get from the Walmart to the payphone. But there were 16 minutes between leaving Walmart and making the call. If we add in Heather's apartment; Walmart to Heather's residence to Kangaroo payphone, it is 5.6 miles and 13 minutes, per Google Maps. That time of the evening mid-week in December, there would be no traffic. It would have been possible for SM to have driven by Heather's.

Wednesday, December 18, 2013:
1:12 am SM seen on surveillance parking his truck in a handicap space at the Seaboard Street WalMart
1:19 am surveillance footage of SM buying pregnancy test and a cigar at the Walmart. Paid with cash.
16 minutes
1:35 am – HE receives a call from SM; call was placed from a payphone & lasts 4.83 minutes (payphone at Kangaroo gas station on Seaboard Street and Mr. Joe White Avenue)

View attachment 97260
 
Latest timeline. Thanks JerseyGirl!

I don't think this part is correct. Shouldn't it be the phone was at LB during this time?

3:01-3:15 am phone was located at her apartment
3:04 am Outgoing Call (to payphone) 1.8seconds
3:05 am Outgoing Call (to payphone)
 
It only takes about 5 minutes to get from the Walmart to the payphone. But there were 16 minutes between leaving Walmart and making the call. If we add in Heather's apartment; Walmart to Heather's residence to Kangaroo payphone, it is 5.6 miles and 13 minutes, per Google Maps. That time of the evening mid-week in December, there would be no traffic. It would have been possible for SM to have driven by Heather's.

Wednesday, December 18, 2013:
1:12 am SM seen on surveillance parking his truck in a handicap space at the Seaboard Street WalMart
1:19 am surveillance footage of SM buying pregnancy test and a cigar at the Walmart. Paid with cash.
16 minutes
1:35 am – HE receives a call from SM; call was placed from a payphone & lasts 4.83 minutes (payphone at Kangaroo gas station on Seaboard Street and Mr. Joe White Avenue)

View attachment 97260

I'd love to see a diagram of the apartment building, where her door was, and where she and/or her visitors would normally park.
 
OK peeps, using Jersey Girl's timeline, which I corrected at the 3:01 point in the timeline (I think I'm right, but please correct me if I'm wrong!), I came up with the following scenario. It involves at least 3 people, though. I won't speculate about who that is, but I think there are more than enough people to choose from as possibilities.

Let me know what you think. My comments/scenarios are in red. Obviously :).

Nov 19: The M family left on a cross-country driving trip to Disneyland in California
Dec 4/5: Heather moved into the apartment with BW
Dec 11: The M family returned home from their trip to California [SM's cellphone has been off since just prior to returning from cross country driving trip to Disneyland] What was discussed and decided between the Moorers on that trip that would make it so that SM's phone would not be in use upon their return? Was the intent to keep it off until well after the commission of the crime? Was it because they had reconciled and together decided his phone will remain off so he can't possibly have contact with HE? Was the plan to, then, at some point get him a new phone/new number?

At some point after returning home from vacation they catch wind that HE might be pregnant. Probably through the TK grapevine. Just like Heather was like, "why now?? I've just moved on!" they too had that reaction..."why now? We just got our marriage back on track! Now she might be pregnant! We must make this go away." So they disable the module in the truck so their movements in the days prior to event are not tracked. They also keep SM's phone off and dismantle the security system at home for the same reasons.

HEATHER'S PHONE ACTIVITY, December 18:

After the purchase of the pregnancy test and cigar (which I cannot work out/see where the use of either comes into play here), SM swings by where he's been told HE now lives to see if he can scope the area out, see what the parking lot is like, make sure he knows where it is so he can tell the person who's actually going to do this dirty work.

1:35am incoming call (payphone) 298 seconds Heather doesn't know this is a pay phone and thinks it is SM's new phone number. He convinces her to meet him at LB "in an hour." Maybe he tells her he's working there. She's probably met him at some of his work places in the middle of the night before so this is logical. Maybe he told her about his new truck, maybe not, but he won't be driving it to meet her at LB, he tells her. He tells her what he will be driving. Or, does anyone he knows have a truck that looked like his old truck?
3 outgoing calls:
1:44 am (to Bri) 132 seconds She tells Bri she's going to sleep on it, but really she has agreed to meet SM "in an hour."
1:53-2:09 am 10 posts to HE Tumblr Passing Time
2:29 am (to payphone) 12 seconds -says that if someone answered it would have been short call Heather changed her mind and is not going to meet him. Calls the number she thinks is his new number to tell him this, but no answer.
2:30:15 am (to payphone) 4.8 seconds Same as above.

2:32 am to 2:41am phone is in motion She decides to go to LB since she can't reach him to tell him she's not coming. She doesn't want him to think she's standing him up when he's just told her he wants to get back with her.
2:32:57 am Outgoing Call (to payphone) 13.8 seconds She tries the pay phone (thinking it's his new phone) on the way to LB to once again try to reach him and tell him she's not coming. Still no answer so she proceeds to LB.

2:42:14 am -2:56 am phone is located at Long Beard's Restaurant (N, NE corner of parking lot by the dumpster) 14 minutes at location- made 4 outgoing calls:
2:43 am Outgoing to (payphone) 7.2 seconds
2:43:36 am Outgoing (to payphone) 7 something
2:45 am (outgoing to payphone) .2 seconds
2:51 am (outgoing to payphone) 4.8 seconds All four of these outgoing calls were to try to find out why SM is not there, where is he, she's waiting for him. Again, she doesn't know she's calling a pay phone.

2:57-3:01:am No call activity during this time, phone only in motion, Long Beard's to HE's Apartment, turned around and went back towards Long Beard's) Heather gave up on SM showing up or reaching him and decided to go home. She is still in charge of her phone now. She heads home, and for whatever reason (not sure it's important), she changes her mind (again!) and heads back to give SM one more chance to meet her at LB.

~3:00 am SM's phone is turned on. [It has been turned off since just prior to December 11 upon return from Disneyland] Back at the compound, they are waiting for word that the job has been done. Who is waiting? TM? SM? Both? Someone else? I don't know, but they made sure his PHONE stayed home and on to "prove" it was pinging at home. At this point, they had no clue he'd been caught on camera at Walmart, at the pay phone, that HE had called BW, that Heather had called that payphone so many times.

3:01-3:15 am phone was located at LB Heather has arrived back at LB to wait for SM again.
3:04 am Outgoing Call (to payphone) 1.8seconds HE trying to reach SM again to see where the heck he is.
3:05 am Outgoing Call (to payphone) Same as above. She's getting annoyed! But, finally "he" shows up in the vehicle he told her he'd be driving, but it is not the black truck. That truck is currently back at the compound. Two people are in this vehicle, they point a gun at HE, and one of them either takes her away in that vehicle or they strangle her to death there in the parking lot and toss her in the dumpster (and got lucky, and she's in a landfill somewhere).

3:16 am Phone in motion to apt - This is in Heather's car, but Heather is not the driver.
2 Outgoing calls
3:16 am (to SM cell) 7.8 seconds Heather no longer in control of her phone. Someone called from her phone and there was no answer, but it was not Heather. Maybe this person accidentally left their phone in the other vehicle and was like "Oh ****! I don't have a phone.....ok I guess I'll use Heather's.....yikes, this probably is not a good idea...." SM did not answer the first time because Heather wasn't supposed to be calling his phone! Damn it! Something went wrong.
3:17am (to SM cell) 249 seconds- 4 mins 9 seconds Whichever one of them did not drive off with Heather (if she was taken) gets in Heather's car. After SM had found Heather's apartment earlier in the evening and told this driver where it was, they had decided to leave her car there to make it look like she disappeared from her apartment. So, the driver calls SM's phone, at home, and gives him/Tammy an update that it's done and they are on the way to the apartment. While still on the phone with SM, they arrive at the apartment (I didn't write these last two paragraphs very well....kinda out of order but hopefully you understand).

Phone was in parking lot 3:20 am -3:24am Phone was NOT in motion, located at apartment parking lot while on phone with SM cell. Driver arrives at the complex. Sees it's a pretty nice complex and thinks there might be cameras, so maybe this is not such a good idea to leave the car here. Doesn't want to get caught on camera. Still on the phone with SM at this point, telling him (or TM) this. They think of a plan B. SM suggests PTL.

3:25-3:35 am Phone moved from Apt complex to PTL (no calls while in motion) Driver is on the way to PTL as they just discussed.
3:36am: A security camera at a private residence 1.7 miles from the M home recorded a distinctive late-model Ford F150 coming from that direction and heading toward Peachtree Landing SM or TM on the way to pick this person up from PTL (could be SM, could be TM, could be a third person)
3:37 am Phone located at PTL

4 outgoing calls to SM while phone at PTL - all of these calls were from the driver anxious to be picked up. If this was not TM or SM, but a hired hand, maybe they were panicking that they didn't have the right place, or that SM was going to leave them stranded with the car of a missing woman.
3:38:14 am (1.8 seconds)
3:39:00 am (1.8 seconds)
3:39am: A security camera at a business D&S Siteworks 1.2 miles from Peachtree Landing recorded the Ford F150 heading toward the landing
3:39:46 am (1.8 seconds)
3:41:05 am (1.8 seconds)

3:42:27 am No further incoming or outgoing calls. No further location coordinates obtained. SM or TM arrives and says, "You are using her phone!? Give me that!" Chucks it into the lake.

3:45am: The security camera at D&S Siteworks recorded the Ford F150 returning from the direction of Peachtree Landing They all head back home or somewhere....

3:46am: The security camera at the same private residence recorded the Ford F150 returning from the direction of Peachtree Landing toward the M home
 
I keep rethinking the converstation HE had with Bri . HE had the entire apartment to herself ... If Sidneey was leaving his wife , wouldn't Heather of insisted Sidney just go to her apt to talk things over or for Heather to take the pregnancy test ? Alot safer than sitting in the parking lot at Long Beard's or meeting at PTL. If SM told HE he was leaving TM, wouldn't HE get suspicious that he couldn't come to her apt and talk things over ? IF SM was leaving TM , why continue to sneak around ?

Also, if Heather was killed at Long Beard's and someone else used her phone ...Heather would of had her phone set to not lock after so many minutes or the person using her phone would need to know her password ( I am assuming a Galaxy phone would lock after so many minutes like my Iphone does )
 
I keep rethinking the converstation HE had with Bri . HE had the entire apartment to herself ... If Sidneey was leaving his wife , wouldn't Heather of insisted Sidney just go to her apt to talk things over or for Heather to take the pregnancy test ? Alot safer than sitting in the parking lot at Long Beard's or meeting at PTL. If SM told HE he was leaving TM, wouldn't HE get suspicious that he couldn't come to her apt and talk things over ? IF SM was leaving TM , why continue to sneak around ?

Also, if Heather was killed at Long Beard's and someone else used her phone ...Heather would of had her phone set to not lock after so many minutes or the person using her phone would need to know her password ( I am assuming a Galaxy phone would lock after so many minutes like my Iphone does )

"We can't meet at your apartment. Somehow my angry wife has found out where you live now."

Her phone may have already been on and had a time-out of maybe 5 minutes or so before locking. I'm sure she was sitting there with it on. Or maybe she didn't have a lock on it. Not everyone does.
 
Heather told Bri she would "sleep on it" as to whether to see/talk to Sid again or not. Obviously she didn't sleep on it. Heather and Sid did not meet up at Bri's apartment. SM wanted to lure Heather out and that's what he did. His intent was to not be seen. IF SM had gone to the apartment, chances were higher that someone coming or going from that complex could have spotted him and/or his truck. By luring her out, he could stay in hiding better (or so he thought).

He didn't take into account all the security cameras that could be installed on people's homes and businesses along a route. He did consider his own security system since he/his wife literally discarded the entire DVR, removed the monitor that was hanging on the wall, and purchased a new system 2 days after they disappeared Heather. Coinky-Dink? Nyet.
 
I posted this on the Mistrial thread but will repost here because I have no idea which thread we are using now to discuss the case. lol


If SM and TM were smart enough to

1) not use SM's phone for a week prior to powering it on at 3 a.m.
2) delete the GPS information from the truck Sync module

then it is quite possible everything else from buying the pregnancy test , the payphone call , HE's phone being tracked to different locations and Sidney's phone being turned on to ping at home at 3 a.m. is all a cover story. They can't be smart enough to know to turn off the cellphone and to delete the GPS info but dumb enough to not know Walmart has video or convience stores have videos. Why use a payphone when they could just of easily of bought a burner phone .
 
I think the timeline of all the phone calls and places where they were being made should have be evidence enough to convict him. I believe that Heather was killed at her apartment. Then someone drove her car to PTL. The body was then placed in the truck and disposed of in a dumpster somewhere. She was probably strangled. There wouldn`t be any blood that way.
 
Sid paid cash for his Walmart purchase. He had no idea that police would figure out he had made that stop. Police either had a hunch -or- got a tip. Either way, Sid was busted. He thought he had covered his tracks by paying cash. He was wearing a beanie cap in the video, which obscured his hair.

Purchase of a burner phone would still occur in a store of some kind and stores have security cameras. Criminals can be both smart and dumb all at the same time. Even the smartest of smart perps get caught because no one thinks of every.single.thing.
 
Sid paid cash for his Walmart purchase. He had no idea that police would figure out he had made that stop. Police either had a hunch -or- got a tip. Either way, Sid was busted. He thought he had covered his tracks by paying cash. He was wearing a beanie cap in the video, which obscured his hair.

Purchase of a burner phone would still occur in a store of some kind and stores have security cameras. Criminals can be both smart and dumb all at the same time. Even the smartest of smart perps get caught because no one thinks of every.single.thing.[/QUOTE]

And this is why I can't believe people are still committing murders in 2016! :)
 
Sid paid cash for his Walmart purchase. He had no idea that police would figure out he had made that stop. Police either had a hunch -or- got a tip. Either way, Sid was busted. He thought he had covered his tracks by paying cash. He was wearing a beanie cap in the video, which obscured his hair.

Purchase of a burner phone would still occur in a store of some kind and stores have security cameras. Criminals can be both smart and dumb all at the same time. Even the smartest of smart perps get caught because no one thinks of every.single.thing.

You are probably right but I still wonder if it isn't a decoy.
 
You are probably right but I still wonder if it isn't a decoy.
A decoy? Wouldn't it be better to NOT be seen out at any point that night rather than "out and nearby but just in another place within the same geo area?"
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
164
Guests online
3,863
Total visitors
4,027

Forum statistics

Threads
595,864
Messages
18,035,574
Members
229,811
Latest member
Cwells1000
Back
Top