IA IA - Johnny Gosch, 12, West Des Moines, 5 Sept 1982 #4

New Posts

velociraptor said:
Sadly this case has become the result of a bunch of strange theories, I can't say if I believe them, but lets look at the facts. There were 5 witnesses to this abduction, two paper carries who were brothers, an adult paper carrier, neighbor Mike Rossi, and another neighbor P.J. Smith, I got the names from the movie who took Johnny. The two paper carriers were there when Johnny was approached by the man driving the Ford Fairmont. Mike rossi claims the man in the ford fairmont approached Johnny before he met up with the paper carriers before he was approached a second time. That would explain why Johnny turned to one of the paper carriers and told him he was scared and heading home when approached by the man again asking for directions. After the paper boys another neighbor PJ smith hears some noise outside, and allegedly looks out his window and sees Johnny being thrown in the Ford Fairmont while it speeds away running the stop sign heading to the interstate. I don't think his allegation is accepted as credible by law enforcement, since it can't really be confirmed. Johnny was gone within 10 minutes of the paperboys coming back and seeing his wagon there but Johnny nowhere to be found.

The other paperboys also claimed a tall man was following Johnny, the car also took off when Johnny starting heading home, this is the last credible sighting of Johnny. So first off, it's really odd that no one neighbor saw him being abducted, although this was a quiet suburb you would think more than one neighbor would be outside waiting for the sunday paper. Johnny was almost the size of an adult male at age 12, so he probably would of put up a fight, but somehow no one heard anything besides pj smith allegedly. I think something that is overlooked is that Johnny might have been held at gunpoint to be forced into a car, he seemed to have been knowledgeable about kidnappings if he had a gut instinct that something was wrong. It is also strange that the one time he goes on the route alone, he gets abducted. He was most likely being watched until he was on the route alone.

It seems as if more than one person was involved in his abduction, I know the popular theory is that he was sold into the sex trade which is very much possible, but I personally think he was sold to a local pedophile who must of hired someone to grab him off the street. West des moines was an upper middle class neighborhood, so they probably had the money. A popular theory is that his father was involved in his abduction but I just can't see it, I think it's unfair to accuse him without any evidence. Noreen and John SR. both basically used all their savings looking for Johnny and both went out aggressively.

I can't say Johnny visiting his mother in 1997 didn't happen, but it's probably unlikely even though I honestly hope it happened. Johnny is probably buried somewhere in west des moines, maybe in someones basement or yard. If he is indeed alive, which is possible, I hope he's living in peace and enjoying his life.
Click to expand...

Obviously you discount Bonacci's story. Why?
 
Johnny asked his parents the night before if he could do the route himself the next morning, it was probably just because he felt he was old enough to do it himself, I was a paperboy in the 80s in the midwest and I also asked to do the route by myself because some other kids got to do it themselves, it's just he probably thought he was old enough. Noreen told him no and Johnnys father said it would be ok, but then Noreen said that wasn't going to happen, so Johnnys father told him to wake him up early so he could join him on the route. It seemed that Johnny was the one who woke up his dad when it was time to go on the route. His parents were sleeping, Johnny never went to wake up his dad. It was 5-6 am when he was getting ready to leave the house. Paul Bonaccis story is not confirmed so it cannot be accepted as a fact, he claims they had several photos of Johnny and he was targeted personally.
 
velociraptor said:
Johnny asked his parents the night before if he could do the route himself the next morning, it was probably just because he felt he was old enough to do it himself, I was a paperboy in the 80s in the midwest and I also asked to do the route by myself because some other kids got to do it themselves, it's just he probably thought he was old enough. Noreen told him no and Johnnys father said it would be ok, but then Noreen said that wasn't going to happen, so Johnnys father told him to wake him up early so he could join him on the route. It seemed that Johnny was the one who woke up his dad when it was time to go on the route. His parents were sleeping, Johnny never went to wake up his dad. It was 5-6 am when he was getting ready to leave the house. Paul Bonaccis story is not confirmed so it cannot be accepted as a fact, he claims they had several photos of Johnny and he was targeted personally.
Click to expand...

Did Johnny try to wake up his Dad? Failed to do so, and just left the house? Or did he just leave the house? I know that Noreen said he couldn't go by himself, but his Dad said "Yes." Can someone fill me in on these points:

1.) Was there known conflict in the marriage of Noreen Gosch and John Gosch Sr, before Johnny disappeared?
2.) How many interviews has John Sr. giving to police or other investigators over the years? I know John does not believe that Johnny visited Noreen in March of 1997.
3.) Where are Noreen and John Sr. living now? Has John Sr. talked about the case to the public since their divorce? That was 1993, correct?
4.) What do you think? Could Johnny still be alive? Sadly, I personally doubt it.

Satch
 
If my son was a 12 year old paperboy, I certainly wouldn't leave it up to him to awaken me when it was time to deliver the papers. I would set my own alarm clock to make sure we were both awake and ready to go. I am in no way implicating or bashing Mr. Gosch. I am only stating what I would have done. I wonder if Mr. G. told Johnny it was ok for him to go alone after Mrs. G. said he couldn't. I also wonder exactly why Johnny was scared of the man that asked for directions and why he decided to leave the group of boys and walk alone if he was scared. There are so many questions that will go unanswered.
 
Satch said:
Did Johnny try to wake up his Dad? Failed to do so, and just left the house? Or did he just leave the house? I know that Noreen said he couldn't go by himself, but his Dad said "Yes." Can someone fill me in on these points:

1.) Was there known conflict in the marriage of Noreen Gosch and John Gosch Sr, before Johnny disappeared?
2.) How many interviews has John Sr. giving to police or other investigators over the years? I know John does not believe that Johnny visited Noreen in March of 1997.
3.) Where are Noreen and John Sr. living now? Has John Sr. talked about the case to the public since their divorce? That was 1993, correct?
4.) What do you think? Could Johnny still be alive? Sadly, I personally doubt it.

Satch
Click to expand...

Johnny did not go to wake up his dad like he was told to do, he went alone without either of them knowing. To answer your questions in order, I have not found any evidence of conflicts prior to Johnny being kidnapped, I recall Noreen saying they were in a normal happy family before this took place. John Sr has given his fair share of interviews, his most recent being the movie Who took Johnny which recently came out. Noreen lives in West Des moines still and Johnnys dad lives in florida, 100% sure of that. As much as it pains me to say this, I think Johnny was targeted by a pedophile who was planning this kidnapping in advance, and most likely did not survive not too long after. I think he was forced into a car at gun point, that's why no one heard him screaming or anything while being abducted. I think it's possible he was alive for awhile after he was abducted and sold into the sex trade, we basically have no evidence to go either way.

And to answer your question rocket, why he was afraid about a man asking directions, the man actually approached him twice, the first time Johnny called out to a neighbor who was outside to help lead him to 86th street, the driver allegedly made a U-Turn and sped off when Johnny asked for the help of the adult neighbor. That in itself sounds sketchy, he probably had a gut feeling that something wasn't right, I have no explanation why he did not stay with the other boys though.
 
Has anybody bothered checking the unidentified in surrounding areas? I never have since I was under the impression he was still alive but maybe it's time to view this differently.
 
prd2bokie said:
Has anybody bothered checking the unidentified in surrounding areas? I never have since I was under the impression he was still alive but maybe it's time to view this differently.
Click to expand...

I would think that's all been checked due to this being such a high profile case.
 
Johnny Gosch has never left my mind since i first read about him. I just wish we could find him or know what really happened but its 2016 and still no body and not much to go from but the claims of Noreen and Paul Bonacci. I tend to lean more towards their side because i watched Who took Johnny and also Conspiracy of Silence.. Pauls reaction to the house/ranch in Colorado is not one i think u can fake .. well if u can then they should be an actor. The guy broke down sobbing..so i do believe something did happen there but im not sure what and who.
Now Troy boner showed his scars on his arms from cig burns in Conspiracy of Silence .. i dont think he did it himself .. he is now dead under strange circumstances like his brother along with many others.
Theres just so much evidence to lead me to believe its true but not enough to ever really be solved unless Johnny comes forward. I really like to hope he is alive but how sad of a life if true. Either way Johnny Gosch wont ever be forgotton.
 
I agree with you... What I don't understand is why authorities could not trace ownership of that ranch in Colorado. Does not make sense to me. Property records should be available, and the people who owned that place should be fully vetted. Was that done? Can anyone provide insight into this?
 
I know very little about this case. Question for those familiar - is the Netflix documentary a good place to start to get the basics?
 
So now I'm questioning whether Heinrich could have been involved with Johnny's abduction. Considering him being guilty of little Jacob Wetterling. Very similar MO. And It wasn't that far of a drive, and sexual predators do drive outside of their home territories to seek out their victims. It's just a possibility. IMO

Check out Jacob's thread here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...as-Jacob-Wetterling-Suspect-led-LE-to-Remains
 
Labor Day marks grim anniversary of Iowa boy's disappearance

http://www.kcci.com/news/labor-day-marks-grim-anniversary-of-iowa-boys-disappearance/41514834

The Johnny Gosch Foundation has been following news of Jacob's story, saying they can never give up the fight to find Johnny.

"How do you take a deep breath?" said Ron Sampson, president of the Johnny Gosch Foundation. "It's always on your mind. It's never not your focal point. It makes me feel very happy for (the Wetterlings) because it is a relief to know what happened to your child."

While the Wetterlings have closure, the Gosch family does not.

"It just doesn't seem like it could happen in your neighborhood two blocks from your house," Johnny's mother, Noreen Gosch, told KCCI. "You just go minute to minute. You don't even dare think ahead an hour, because everything changes and the waiting is such a hard thing to do."
Click to expand...
 
neesaki said:
So now I'm questioning whether Heinrich could have been involved with Johnny's abduction. Considering him being guilty of little Jacob Wetterling. Very similar MO. And It wasn't that far of a drive, and sexual predators do drive outside of their home territories to seek out their victims. It's just a possibility. IMO

Check out Jacob's thread here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...as-Jacob-Wetterling-Suspect-led-LE-to-Remains
Click to expand...

I wondered about this too. I looked on the map and it's close to 350 miles but it's almost a direct drive straight down I-35. I think DH would have been 20 when Johnny went missing. I do feel it's a possibility.

Edited to add: I just looked again at the map and noticed an even more direct route on US-169, it's about 45 miles less that way. I'm not in the US so I'm not at all familiar with MN and IA so it's possible those routes weren't even constructed when Johnny went missing. Perhaps a local can confirm?
 
AmyPond said:
I know very little about this case. Question for those familiar - is the Netflix documentary a good place to start to get the basics?
Click to expand...

Trying to be careful what I write here but some of the details about the case have changed over the years. I'm not convinced that the documentary is an unbiased, fact based perspective. I'd research the early witness statements and evidence first if I were you, then perhaps watch the documentary.
 
DanceCard said:
Trying to be careful what I write here but some of the details about the case have changed over the years. I'm not convinced that the documentary is an unbiased, fact based perspective. I'd research the early witness statements and evidence first if I were you, then perhaps watch the documentary.
Click to expand...

Is there a comprehensive website detailing early witness statements and evidence other than the official site?
 
I decided to start the documentary yesterday (only got about half way before my son woke from his nap.) It seems like so far the documentary is just from the family's perspective so I can definitely see how it would be a bit bias. But it's given me some good things to Google when I get the chance.

I can see there are a lot of different conspiracy theories with this case so it looks like it could be a bit confusing.

I was just a toddler when this happened but I only lived about 2 hours away. And I mapped the location from where a relative of mine currently lives. He is just 6 miles from the abduction site. I hadn't even heard of this case until last year but never got around to falling down the rabbit hole, so to speak.
 
Re: Heinrich taking a field trip to Iowa...

Interstate 35 would have been his best option for quick travel. US 169 was and remains mostly two-lane throughout Iowa and Minnesota. I've been on it and while doing DM to central MN could be done in a day if you drove /all day/, it would be a hell of a thing, especially in the buckets Heinrich is known to have driven back then. Best to just cruise down 35 doing a mile a minute.

As far as Heinrich doing the actual deed, it's /possible/, but I think it is unlikely. Even in the 80s, DM is no cake walk as far as finding one's way around. Heinrich would have had to have put in time and effort. People are talking about in the Wetterling thread putting together a timeline of his movements. I however just don't think he would have had the money to drive to DM, do his thing, and then drive back to MN. Gas was cheap, but where did he stay? What did he eat? Did he live in his car eating MREs he got from the Guard?
 
I saw the documentary on Netflix last night and I think Paul Bonacci has about the same level of credibility as John Mark Karr.

I feel so sorry for Noreen. I think she has been pushed to the brink and can no longer separate fact from fiction. When Noreen testified at the Franklin inquiries that her Ex husband had known about Bonacci for two years and did not tell her, I think it was because he recognized that the guy was lying and did not want Noreen believing that his story had any truth to it.
The PI's she has used and the 'witnesses' they provided are just bleeding her dry. No one she presents as a witness to the Ped Ring does anymore than rehash the same garbage that Bonacci did.
Every law officer or agent that 'helped' her have all pedaled their own books and stood to gain financially from her story.
Very few of the 'facts' that she presents on her website can be backed up, midnight meetings with convicts and visits at 2am from strangers saying they are her son just sound all kinds of crazy. There is no logical reason for her to believe her son is in hiding after the Washington Post and the New York Times both researched the Franklin case and found no evidence that it was any more than a well fabricated hoax.
I think Johnny was kidnapped by two men and killed shortly afterwards. The few witnesses that saw them and the two tone Ford car that morning were the best leads the Des Moines police had and they blew it. Back then law enforcement had no protocol to handle something like this, sex offender registries didn't exist, Amber Alerts did not exist and people trusted their kids to be able to safely deliver papers in the dark. We didn't discuss stranger danger or bad touching in school. We trusted. Non Family abductions are hard to solve even with today's technology and a security cam on every corner. Back then most law enforcement hadn't a prayer.
Thank God Noreen had the wherewithal to keep Johnny's story in the news and work to create legislation to help other kids. Her efforts have saved lives.
 
I wonder if this case, specifically, contributed to someone like me (in Iowa) being taught stranger danger in school in the late 80's and early 90's.
 
Fukiyama said:
Re: Heinrich taking a field trip to Iowa...

Interstate 35 would have been his best option for quick travel. US 169 was and remains mostly two-lane throughout Iowa and Minnesota. I've been on it and while doing DM to central MN could be done in a day if you drove /all day/, it would be a hell of a thing, especially in the buckets Heinrich is known to have driven back then. Best to just cruise down 35 doing a mile a minute.

As far as Heinrich doing the actual deed, it's /possible/, but I think it is unlikely. Even in the 80s, DM is no cake walk as far as finding one's way around. Heinrich would have had to have put in time and effort. People are talking about in the Wetterling thread putting together a timeline of his movements. I however just don't think he would have had the money to drive to DM, do his thing, and then drive back to MN. Gas was cheap, but where did he stay? What did he eat? Did he live in his car eating MREs he got from the Guard?
Click to expand...

I've always thought Johnny's disappearance was connected to the nearby disappearances of two other young boys - Eugene Martin and Marc Allen. If that's the case, it would point to someone local.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Staff online

Members online

... and 139 more.
Total: 4,580 (members: 140, guests: 4,440)

Online statistics

Members online
140
Guests online
4,440
Total visitors
4,580
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
592,486
Messages
17,969,674
Members
228,788
Latest member
Soccergirl500
Back
Top