UID Victim: The Female Toddler, UP9704, found Gilgo Beach Apr 2011

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Fieldnotes keeps in touch with NAMUS. The mother is not entered. ME has her DNA? Thats how they made the connection with the baby.
 
Yep. I remember all that. I just really wonder why they wouldn't enter the two as a pair. There has got to be a reason. Either they something and are trying to connect it or just body parts where found. Normally I'd never think just body parts found would be why but considering the area I've got to wonder. But if that was the case then gotta wonder why they'd not release that info.
 
The police have stated that the child was not caucasian. I think we can rule out the following groups:

Italians: Though they tend to give jewelery as presents to infant girls, Italians are caucasians

Roma / Gypsies: In addition to the very different rules for Gypsy men and women that Claireshore mentioned, nearly all Romas would probably register as caucasians skeletal wise. Their origin was in north India and most north Indians are either caucasians (abiet with darker complections) or are heavily mixed with caucasians.

Middle Easterners: These groups are caucasian in the anthropological sense.

That leaves asians, hispanics and blacks. Technically "Hipsanic" is not a race, but a culture. In every day usage, however, it is assosciated closely with certain physical features. A large number of hispanics would either register as caucasian or amerindian skeletal wise. The police have stated that the remains are not caucasian. If the child was hispanic, this would indicate either amerindian or afro hispanic skeletal features.

Most Hispanics in New York are from the carribean. These islands have very little amerindian influences today. Rather, the features of the non caucasian hispanics from these regions are ususally derived from african influences. Thus, I believe that the victim is most likely:

A. Black american (or english speaking carribean black) or
B. Afro Hispanic (Puerto Rican, Dominican, Panamanian, Cuban)

That leaves the matter of the jewelery. Jewelery gifts to infants does not seem that common amongst black americans though it is not unheard of. I dont know about anglo carribean blacks (Jamaicans, Trinidadians etc). Infants with pierced ears and jewerly is common amongst Mexican hispanics. I imagine that it would be common amongst carribean hispanics as well. This could allow the list to be narrowed:

- Cubans: Most, but not all, cubans are caucasians.

-Dominicans or Puerto Ricans: Afro Carribean features are very common in the Domincian Republic, and what- fairly common in Puerto Rico? Puerto Ricans, however, are US citizens so I think it is less likely that an infant and mother would not be reported as missing following the discovery of the remains. That leaves illegal immigrants from the Dominican Republic.

As for asians, they can be distinguished skeletal wise from caucausians, and africans. As the police did not identify the remains as "asian", I think afro carribean is more likely. Hispanic afro carribean in particular.
 
Cryptic said:
The police have stated that the child was not caucasian. I think we can rule out the following groups:

Italians: Though they tend to give jewelery as presents to infant girls, Italians are caucasians

Roma / Gypsies: In addition to the very different rules for Gypsy men and women that Claireshore mentioned, nearly all Romas would probably register as caucasians skeletal wise. Their origin was in north India and most north Indians are either caucasians (abiet with darker complections) or are heavily mixed with caucasians.

Middle Easterners: These groups are caucasian in the anthropological sense.

That leaves asians, hispanics and blacks. Technically "Hipsanic" is not a race, but a culture. In every day usage, however, it is assosciated closely with certain physical features. A large number of hispanics would either register as caucasian or amerindian skeletal wise. The police have stated that the remains are not caucasian. If the child was hispanic, this would indicate either amerindian or afro hispanic skeletal features.

Most Hispanics in New York are from the carribean. These islands have very little amerindian influences today. Rather, the features of the non caucasian hispanics from these regions are ususally derived from african influences. Thus, I believe that the victim is most likely:

A. Black american (or english speaking carribean black) or
B. Afro Hispanic (Puerto Rican, Dominican, Panamanian, Cuban)

That leaves the matter of the jewelery. Jewelery gifts to infants does not seem that common amongst black americans though it is not unheard of. I dont know about anglo carribean blacks (Jamaicans, Trinidadians etc). Infants with pierced ears and jewerly is common amongst Mexican hispanics. I imagine that it would be common amongst carribean hispanics as well. This could allow the list to be narrowed:

- Cubans: Most, but not all, cubans are caucasians.

-Dominicans or Puerto Ricans: Afro Carribean features are very common in the Domincian Republic, and what- fairly common in Puerto Rico? Puerto Ricans, however, are US citizens so I think it is less likely that an infant and mother would not be reported as missing following the discovery of the remains. That leaves illegal immigrants from the Dominican Republic.

As for asians, they can be distinguished skeletal wise from caucausians, and africans. As the police did not identify the remains as "asian", I think afro carribean is more likely. Hispanic afro carribean in particular.
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Ah I just realized something! I bet they are from the shinnecock reservation
 
LindsayLohan6 said:
Ah I just realized something! I bet they are from the shinnecock reservation
Click to expand...

Possibly, but they appear to be a small tribe membership wise. This would make a missing mother and child more noticable. Also, there is the possibility that some of the tribal members are of mixed background (primarily with caucasians). This would lessen the ability to declare that the skeletal remains were "non caucasian". Thus, if the victims are from that tribe, they could represent an even smaller group: Tribal members from a small tribe who are either full blood or nearly full blood amerinidan and who have not been reported as missing.

I still favor the immigrant afro Carribean or Haitian possibility.
 
Youtube Dark Minds Long Island Serial Killer. Also google sixty minutes australia long island ripper.
 
Very interesting. I wonder if the remains are older than they claim. but why do you say the earrings match the jewelry?
 
Just by looking at the earrings the little girl was found with they seem to visually match the earrings that Tiffany is wearing in the picture. Same basic shape, colour and style.
 
Google Charley Project Jessica Vargas. Theres an interesting story. Could the toddler be Jessica. On pg1 of this thread it says the toddler is dead 4 to 5 years. The ME report says 1 yr. Jessica is in NAMUS but her DNA is not. Read the story on mother and daughter.
 
I was thinking that maybe it wasn't the mom and the baby who are of the religion that buries its dead with jewelry, but it's probably the killer. I have always felt that he was probably in a relationship with the mom and either was the father of the baby or considered her his daughter.
 
copperterra said:
I was thinking that maybe it wasn't the mom and the baby who are of the religion that buries its dead with jewelry, but it's probably the killer. I have always felt that he was probably in a relationship with the mom and either was the father of the baby or considered her his daughter.
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I, too, have come to same possible theory that the killer just might be the father of the child. In fact, I came here to post this theory and I see copperterra offers the same possibility. It was either the case that the child's mother brought her along for for a first time "service meet" or one of several with the mother and killer. Perhaps the last meet was to drop the bomb to the killer–that the child was his. And if the killer already has a family of his own, that would be an instant threat and a motive to get rid of the mother and child.
 
Also, on the child's NAMUS case profile, it lists the sex as "unsure." With the current advancements in DNA, I don't understand why the sex can't be determined. If the child was male, then there would be Y-DNA. If not, then it would be female. I also don't understand why the DNA can't pinpoint the top/main ethnicity of the child. Is LE DNA testing different or limited compared to public commercial testing like 23andMe, FTDNA, etc.?
 
rcoope23 said:
Tiffany Susan Westford went missing with her mother in 1993 from Amityville, New York. Her earring seems to match the pictures of the jewellery pictured.

http://www.forthelost.org/family/twestford.html
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These mps and Carl's suggestion look very interesting, wonder if the have been compared yet?
Tiffany Westford, Marie Dominique

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?283333-The-Toddler&p=11892287#post11892287
AMANDA AMGAD SALIB GARAS (Child) and SUZAN BOULES BESCKALES GERGES (Mother)

 
Fireweed said:
Anyone know of cultures that regularly put jewelry on their toddlers? I am asking because the I had never in my life seen jewelry on a baby until a friend of mine married a Cuban woman. That baby wore fine jewelry too, not trinkets from a gumball machine.

I am not trying to stereotype or offend anyone or anything, I am merely trying to narrow down where this baby may have come from. I wonder if the cops in Suffolk County are aware that many people (like myself) would find it damn odd to see a baby in gold and diamond jewelry. I have really only seen it done commonly among the Hispanics that live in my town.
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I am Hispanic, Spanish, and native American and my family had my ears pierced within the first year of my life. I was also gifted necklaces and rings very young. I don't know why but this does seem to be a tradition in my family.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 
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