GUILTY CA - Massive fire at Oakland warehouse party, 36 dead, 2 Dec 2016 #3

JaimeSommers · Dec 17, 2016

When I moved from Pennsylvania to Los Angeles, my rent increased by 300% for an apartment a smidge smaller than the one I had in PA. [emoji47]

MsMarple said:
I think your question was a reasonable one. TBH at first I kind of saw the GS residents as one step up from homeless or young runaways or people with issues. To learn that for the most part they are simply artists trying to make a living and looking for affordable housing in an insane property market was a shock.

I came across a website that calls out some of the extreme housing offerings - meaning people taking advantage of people - and boy did my eyes pop!

http://sfist.com/tags/apartmentsadness

Housing in my little town is on the brink of being overpriced - an ADU around the corner goes for $740/mo, it's new and clean, heated and has a tiny kitchen but hell, it's only about 200 square feet. As a result a lot of young people and families can't live here. Many take on jobs that they're overqualified for while others work two, sometimes three jobs - all because the town is a great place to live. But the end result is that the average age is climbing and eventually we'll just be a big retirement community.

Looking at the dichotomy that appears to exist in Oakland between the struggling artists and the extremely wealthy IMO should be a wake up call for other growing communities to put measures in place for all kinds of people to live together before it's too late.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Lilibet · Dec 17, 2016

human said:
Some people hate govt and rules and regulations.

Even with this fire, there are those that still do not understand .

Often when there are property issues, someone needs to report it. Manty people are loathe to say anything . We are taught that tattling is wrong. Mind your own business. That kind of attitude.

Then people get enraged because nothing was done. Interesting to observe

BBM

You're absolutely right that each of us has a responsibility to report certain illegal activities that impact our neighborhood. But in addition to the mind-your-own-business attitude we've been taught, I think that nowadays, fear of retaliation also makes people reluctant to report things. So they keep quiet to protect themselves from a very real danger.

The couple who bought the house across the street from the Ghost Ship did report IIRC, but when the unsavory people hanging around made it unsafe to let their child play in their yard, they moved. Sometimes leaving is all you can do, and it's infuriating that a bully can control a neighborhood. I've experienced this myself. When it was clear that reporting our neighbor was endangering us, we left, knowing that LE could do very little to protect us, and we chose not to add guns to a volatile situation.

kdg411 · Dec 17, 2016

This WSJ article put in print the same frustration I've been having with this.

Confusion over the address of the warehouse and an adjacent property may have contributed to the city failing to uncover problems within the structure known as the Ghost Ship, according to an account from officials.

Darin Ranelletti, the interim head of Planning and Building, said Wednesday inspectors didnt enter the building for decades because no permits were sought, and because no complaints were submitted to his office for interior work at the warehouse address.

A November complaint about an illegal interior building structure was filed for the address of the adjoining lot, which is owned by the same person, listed in property records as Chor Ng.

When the inspector visited that site three weeks before*Fridays*fire, he wasnt looking to get into the warehouse, Mr. Ranelletti said.

His job is to look into the complaint, he said. That complaint was registered for the vacant lot.

The addresses of the adjoining properties werent clearly marked.

According to https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3232707/Bldg-Violations-Records.pdf the illegal interior building structure complaint was not acknowledged in the complaint sent to Chor NG via registered mail on 11/21/2016 (per http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3233614-oak061791.html#document/p1).

If you Google the address 1315 31st Ave Oakland, then you should see this however look closely at the address on the door,1305.

When the Oakland Fire Chief said in this article

Deloach Reed says not only were there no inspections, there were no service calls to 1315 31st Avenue, dating back at least 12 years.

So who exactly is responsible for misidentifying the property address marked on the exterior of the building? And exactly what address (property) did DIA sign the rental agreement for?

It's starting to feel like a large scale blame game is playing out and is aggravating because what should be remembered is that 36 innocent lives have been lost.

Lilibet · Dec 17, 2016

kdg411 said:
This WSJ article put in print the same frustration I've been having with this.

According to https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3232707/Bldg-Violations-Records.pdf the illegal interior building structure complaint was not acknowledged in the complaint sent to Chor NG via registered mail on 11/21/2016 (per http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3233614-oak061791.html#document/p1).

If you Google the address 1315 31st Ave Oakland, then you should see this however look closely at the address on the door,1305.

When the Oakland Fire Chief said in this article

So who exactly is responsible for misidentifying the property address marked on the exterior of the building? And exactly what address (property) did DIA sign the rental agreement for?

It's starting to feel like a large scale blame game is playing out and is aggravating because what should be remembered is that 36 innocent lives have been lost.

The 1305 in the photo you posted is hand-painted. Could DIA have done this to confuse inspectors? Is there a more normal looking address anywhere else?

kdg411 · Dec 17, 2016

Lilibet said:
The 1305 in the photo you posted is hand-painted. Could DIA have done this to confuse inspectors? Is there a more normal looking address anywhere else?

Unfortunately, that is the only visible address available. If the landlord however, in collecting rent, went to the property and saw the address shouldn't that person have noticed this and had it addressed and corrected immediately?

The Oakland City codes regarding building numbers can be found here.

CARIIS · Dec 17, 2016

Lilibet said:
The 1305 in the photo you posted is hand-painted. Could DIA have done this to confuse inspectors? Is there a more normal looking address anywhere else?

oh my!

But in pondering this , all the painting probably was not him, and a resident might have just confused it.

It took me a while to see "it" so who knows huh?

CARIIS · Dec 17, 2016

kdg411 said:
This WSJ article put in print the same frustration I've been having with this.

According to https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3232707/Bldg-Violations-Records.pdf the illegal interior building structure complaint was not acknowledged in the complaint sent to Chor NG via registered mail on 11/21/2016 (per http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3233614-oak061791.html#document/p1).

If you Google the address 1315 31st Ave Oakland, then you should see this however look closely at the address on the door,1305.

When the Oakland Fire Chief said in this article

So who exactly is responsible for misidentifying the property address marked on the exterior of the building? And exactly what address (property) did DIA sign the rental agreement for?

It's starting to feel like a large scale blame game is playing out and is aggravating because what should be remembered is that 36 innocent lives have been lost.

Well then IMO someone is lying - flat out. From day one the deal was he could not get in Who needs to "get in" a vacant lot?

Fridays*fire, he wasnt looking to get into the warehouse, Mr. Ranelletti said.

His job is to look into the complaint, he said. That complaint was registered for the vacant lot.

CARIIS · Dec 17, 2016

human said:
Some people hate govt and rules and regulations.

Even with this fire, there are those that still do not understand .

Often when there are property issues, someone needs to report it. Manty people are loathe to say anything . We are taught that tattling is wrong. Mind your own business. That kind of attitude.

Then people get enraged because nothing was done. Interesting to observe

I would be too chicken to say anything - especially these days when people can walk around legally with guns!

CARIIS · Dec 17, 2016

Lilibet said:
Which Shakespeare role did you say he is he auditioning for?

MeBeth Othelo?? BUT you must admit you listened, and wanted to hear what he was going to say next - fess up ha!!

At times he reminded me of Gerry Spence an amazing hom sapian to just "listen" to !!

At the same time, it kinda fits that Derrick would be "attracted" to his history!!

So bizarre , I was somewhat relieved when I read that he hired an attorney - it had blown my mind, that in this day and age, dude, (DI)you really are not grasping where this is going

It was actually scary!!

I would love to know the exact retain date- was it weeks ago- or did it really take him this long to grasp the enormity of the situation here??

The steps are just horrible. But for your children - that's an angle that is really a mess IMO.
Its not like there was a shortage of wood in the place!

Just the whole thing - who would want to negotiate that shi$ 8 times a day??

But, when I read that NG knew about what was going on with the power sharing I moved over to the your going to "prison" camp.

What little I know about this kind of thing- how do lay people play around with main feeds into buildings? I would think power would have to be cut?

But if your doing the main feed (big buildings - it included both of them) doesn;t that take the power company?

human · Dec 17, 2016

Good point Cariis. I know we have had to call the power company for some big electrical thing which is all a mystery to me. But I know it costs big bucks. I asked hubby if we could do it ourselves but he said "no." Where I lived you could do your own interior wiring in a residence. Not for new construction though.

I think for what you are talking about Cariis would be death to someone who does not know what they are doing. And if someone turns off the power to work in it, I think it would show up at the power company as an issue.

LaborOfLobe · Dec 18, 2016

Here's a similar picture to the one posted previously, but from farther away. I think what someone said looks like a roll-up door in the back is really the steel roof beams that fell in. In the first picture, the distance between the beams makes them look like a solid, vertical piece. No clue what that chain is, perhaps at one time it was "art"?

human · Dec 18, 2016

LaborOfLobe said:
Here's a similar picture to the one posted previously, but from farther away. I think what someone said looks like a roll-up door in the back is really the steel roof beams that fell in. In the first picture, the distance between the beams makes them look like a solid, vertical piece. No clue what that chain is, perhaps at one time it was "art"?

Everytime I look at that picture I get angry. Derick was a 42 year old adult. It looks like something 10 year old kids would create for a fort.

I cannot even conceive of an adult who would think this is a good idea. Mind boggling

MsMarple · Dec 18, 2016

LaborOfLobe said:
Here's a similar picture to the one posted previously, but from farther away. I think what someone said looks like a roll-up door in the back is really the steel roof beams that fell in. In the first picture, the distance between the beams makes them look like a solid, vertical piece. No clue what that chain is, perhaps at one time it was "art"?

I think that's accurate. I saw this photo a while back and the caption identified the pallet stairs on the right. Last night I saw on Twitter that the stairs were already burning by the time the firefighters arrived. Like human I just get madder and madder.

Two people broke their ankle climbing down and one sprained hers. Of the three one was resident Peter Wadsworth, who a friend tried to pull out but left him to die when his own clothes caught fire. So even with the stairs not leading to a direct exit and the black smoke it seems like people on the first floor were able to get out while those who didn't make it down from the second floor perished.

Derick Ion and Micah Allison IMO need to answer for their actions but I'm afraid they will get away with it, maybe with a fine and some community work, I don't know. The owner may get hit harder but again I don't think she'll see jail time. I'm afraid this is all going to be settled through civil suits. I hope I'm wrong.

MzOpinion8d · Dec 18, 2016

MsMarple said:
I think that's accurate. I saw this photo a while back and the caption identified the pallet stairs on the right. Last night I saw on Twitter that the stairs were already burning by the time the firefighters arrived. Like human I just get madder and madder.

Two people broke their ankle climbing down and one sprained hers. Of the three one was resident Peter Wadsworth, who a friend tried to pull out but left him to die when his own clothes caught fire. So even with the stairs not leading to a direct exit and the black smoke it seems like people on the first floor were able to get out while those who didn't make it down from the second floor perished.

Derick Ion and Micah Allison IMO need to answer for their actions but I'm afraid they will get away with it, maybe with a fine and some community work, I don't know. The owner may get hit harder but again I don't think she'll see jail time. I'm afraid this is all going to be settled through civil suits. I hope I'm wrong.

"Left him to die when his own clothes caught fire"...that's a pretty legitimate reason. If he's burning alive he can't really help his friend.

MsMarple · Dec 18, 2016

MzOpinion8d said:
"Left him to die when his own clothes caught fire"...that's a pretty legitimate reason. If he's burning alive he can't really help his friend.

To be clear, I wasn't implying any wrongdoing on the friend's part.

Artist and Ghost Ship resident Bob Mule, who spoke to media outlets in the hours after the blaze of having to leave behind an injured friend, gave the somewhat unsettling interview below to a YouTuber he met who appears to pretend not to know that Mule was a survivor of the fire, because he's a terrible interviewer. But Mule, clearly still somewhat in shock from the events, tells the terrible story of abandoning his friend, 38-year-old Peter Wadsworth, because Wadsworth had apparently broken his ankle coming down from a sleeping loft. According to Mule, Wadsworth told him, "You have to pull me out," but Mule says that not only did his path become blocked by a fallen bicycle, but Wadsworth was a "bigger guy" and he couldn't just throw him over a shoulder. His survival instinct kicked in, and he ran out, saving himself. Wadsworth was the only resident of the collective to lose his life.

http://sfist.com/2016/12/12/ghost_ship_survivors_tell_stories_o.php

BTW, I see now that Wadsworth broke his ankle getting down from his sleeping loft and not from the second floor party. So I guess the pallet stairs weren't the only hazard in the GS.

Jax49 · Dec 18, 2016

If this was linked earlier I missed it; includes details about Jennifer.

http://abc30.com/news/uc-merced-stu...nd-fire-identified-as-victim-of-fire/1644819/

Her family said they are comforted knowing she did not suffer.

"It was seconds before the floor collapsed and she was covered by a carpet, protected by a carpet, and within 15 seconds was unconscious from smoke inhalation," said Mendiola.

ETA: I was glad to see this report since an earlier quote said 15 minutes, which didn't seem possible.

RIP Jennifer

borndem · Dec 18, 2016

human said:
Some people hate govt and rules and regulations.

Even with this fire, there are those that still do not understand .

Often when there are property issues, someone needs to report it. Manty people are loathe to say anything . We are taught that tattling is wrong. Mind your own business. That kind of attitude.

Then people get enraged because nothing was done. Interesting to observe

You said it, right there. I feel sure anyone visiting an artist, or coming in to see an artist's showing, prolly saw a match-box waiting for a spark, but they may not have realized that people were actually living there, or if they did know, then they prolly also knew that they lived there because the inhabitant(s) couldn't afford anything better.

And we all know that this isn't the only fire-trap place like this -- college towns, any big city, etc, etc.

CARIIS · Dec 18, 2016

MsMarple said:
To be clear, I wasn't implying any wrongdoing on the friend's part.

http://sfist.com/2016/12/12/ghost_ship_survivors_tell_stories_o.php

BTW, I see now that Wadsworth broke his ankle getting down from his sleeping loft and not from the second floor party. So I guess the pallet stairs weren't the only hazard in the GS.

Only mo, I could not finish the interview,

He does not know the number of victims??

Please ... after being on every media outlet on the planet the first week??

human said:
Good point Cariis. I know we have had to call the power company for some big electrical thing which is all a mystery to me. But I know it costs big bucks. I asked hubby if we could do it ourselves but he said "no." Where I lived you could do your own interior wiring in a residence. Not for new construction though.

I think for what you are talking about Cariis would be death to someone who does not know what they are doing. And if someone turns off the power to work in it, I think it would show up at the power company as an issue.

Honestly, that one fact, just changed , for me,owners responsibility - and what is just stupid IMO - think about it - would you allow someone to mess around with electricity on TWO of YOUR huge buildings? The risks?

And angered me immensely - just dumb -- moo-- Could someone from the power company.........................

It boggled my little mind. What I can not fathom is how would someone not from the power company be able or know how to cut the power going into the buildings?

Pull a circuit breaker maybe, would any of us know how you turn off the power from the lines??

OT but amusing-

bath house fort lauderdale years ago. One of these big boxes went off poolside.

It was nothing like in the movies ( a spark and poof) it was more like a huge firework that did not stop until the fire dept arrived!) Shooting out like 8 feet and the noise was really scary. The smell was awful.

The funny part was, the guy at the front desk had to get on the intercom and announce what was going on.

It went something like:

"Gentleman, the fire dept is enroute, we are safe, but need everyone in the building to exit and go to the pool area"

"Gentlemen, please have at least a towel on!"

One of the firemen was really handsome! we all started hooting and howling - and they all did find it colorful.

I sure would have loved to hear the ribbing he got for the next 10 years at the ole fire house!!

Was a hoot!!

CARIIS · Dec 18, 2016

Git

How is your brother getting along?

How are you all getting along?

Was relieved to learn that the media got 15 min and 15 secs wrong for 10 days.

MzOpinion8d said:
"Left him to die when his own clothes caught fire"...that's a pretty legitimate reason. If he's burning alive he can't really help his friend.

was not what he said the first week, he said he was too big - right now is the first time I heard (from you guys!) about his clothes on fire- and I followed this tragedy pretty intensely.

[FONT=&quot]Oakland Fire Chief Teresa Deloach Reed said :[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]"We do not inspect buildings, we inspect businesses," Reed said during a press conference. "There were no indications this was an active business."

WTH???

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The fire chief said the warehouse wasn't on the department's list of businesses to inspect because no one ever applied for permits to occupy the building.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]That is just too govermenty for me! Cops eat at Wnedys. Firemen probably also. How on earth can anyone , with credibility, claim that for 8 years or whatever, human beings were not inside?

Personally. I would prefer to own it not come up with inane statements like above - that is absurd.

Folks with kids want the child to own that they got in the cookie jar when they were not supposed to.

Come in officials - your looking more and more like idiots - which is becoming more and more insulting considering your endless promises to get to the bottom of this.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]...... Almena, the sometime photographer who rented the warehouse and sublet it to artists, has not responded to emails or calls by The AP to phone numbers associated with him.

[/FONT]http://www.14news.com/story/34042443/chief-fire-department-unaware-of-oakland-warehouse-concerns

CARIIS · Dec 18, 2016

LaborOfLobe said:
Here's a similar picture to the one posted previously, but from farther away. I think what someone said looks like a roll-up door in the back is really the steel roof beams that fell in. In the first picture, the distance between the beams makes them look like a solid, vertical piece. No clue what that chain is, perhaps at one time it was "art"?

So strange. look at some of the stuff ----2 x 4's unscathed

Derick Ion and Micah Allison IMO need to answer for their actions but I'm afraid they will get away with it, maybe with a fine and some community work, I don't know. The owner may get hit harder but again I don't think she'll see jail time. I'm afraid this is all going to be settled through civil suits. I hope I'm wrong.

I am with you-it just seems with all the media we would have heard "DI and MA were taken to the police station and questioned at length".

That would be a big story - but we have not heard that - so does that really mean that it has not happened?

So maybe nothing will happen for them? How can that be?

And it is not like we are going to learn "more" about the dangers inside - it's all burnt out. So what does it take to file charges?

The only thing, I think, left to learn is origin, but that has nothing to do with how quickly it propagated because of the dangers.

So it goes back to -- maybe no charges criminally?

GUILTY CA - Massive fire at Oakland warehouse party, 36 dead, 2 Dec 2016 #3

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