GUILTY CA - Massive fire at Oakland warehouse party, 36 dead, 2 Dec 2016 #3

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[FONT=&amp]Oakland Fire Chief Teresa Deloach Reed said :[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]"We do not inspect buildings, we inspect businesses," Reed said during a press conference. "There were no indications this was an active business."

WTH???

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]The fire chief said the warehouse wasn't on the department's list of businesses to inspect because no one ever applied for permits to occupy the building.

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]That is just too govermenty for me! Cops eat at Wnedys. Firemen probably also. How on earth can anyone , with credibility, claim that for 8 years or whatever, human beings were not inside?

Personally. I would prefer to own it not come up with inane statements like above - that is absurd.

Folks with kids want the child to own that they got in the cookie jar when they were not supposed to.

Come in officials - your looking more and more like idiots - which is becoming more and more insulting considering your endless promises to get to the bottom of this.

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]...... Almena, the sometime photographer who rented the warehouse and sublet it to artists, has not responded to emails or calls by The AP to phone numbers associated with him.
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT]http://www.14news.com/story/34042443/chief-fire-department-unaware-of-oakland-warehouse-concerns[FONT=&amp]

.
Forgot his attorney is 81 --this will last until 2019![/FONT]
 
CARIIS said:
[FONT=&]Oakland Fire Chief Teresa Deloach Reed said :[/FONT]

[FONT=&]"We do not inspect buildings, we inspect businesses," Reed said during a press conference. "There were no indications this was an active business."

WTH???

[/FONT][FONT=&]The fire chief said the warehouse wasn't on the department's list of businesses to inspect because no one ever applied for permits to occupy the building.

[/FONT][FONT=&]That is just too govermenty for me! Cops eat at Wnedys. Firemen probably also. How on earth can anyone , with credibility, claim that for 8 years or whatever, human beings were not inside?

Personally. I would prefer to own it not come up with inane statements like above - that is absurd.

Folks with kids want the child to own that they got in the cookie jar when they were not supposed to.

Come in officials - your looking more and more like idiots - which is becoming more and more insulting considering your endless promises to get to the bottom of this.

[/FONT][FONT=&]...... Almena, the sometime photographer who rented the warehouse and sublet it to artists, has not responded to emails or calls by The AP to phone numbers associated with him.
[/FONT][FONT=&]

[/FONT]http://www.14news.com/story/34042443/chief-fire-department-unaware-of-oakland-warehouse-concerns[FONT=&]

.
Forgot his attorney is 81 --this will last until 2019![/FONT]
Click to expand...

I doubt if anyone has memorized the list of buildings and their uses. So if no permit was applied for, unless someone complained, no one would know.

Think of buidlings by you. Do you know what the permits are?
 
CARIIS said:
[FONT=&amp]Oakland Fire Chief Teresa Deloach Reed said :[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]"We do not inspect buildings, we inspect businesses," Reed said during a press conference. "There were no indications this was an active business."

WTH???

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]The fire chief said the warehouse wasn't on the department's list of businesses to inspect because no one ever applied for permits to occupy the building.

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]That is just too govermenty for me! Cops eat at Wnedys. Firemen probably also. How on earth can anyone , with credibility, claim that for 8 years or whatever, human beings were not inside?

Personally. I would prefer to own it not come up with inane statements like above - that is absurd.

Folks with kids want the child to own that they got in the cookie jar when they were not supposed to.

Come in officials - your looking more and more like idiots - which is becoming more and more insulting considering your endless promises to get to the bottom of this.

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]...... Almena, the sometime photographer who rented the warehouse and sublet it to artists, has not responded to emails or calls by The AP to phone numbers associated with him.
[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

[/FONT]http://www.14news.com/story/34042443/chief-fire-department-unaware-of-oakland-warehouse-concerns[FONT=&amp]

.
Forgot his attorney is 81 --this will last until 2019![/FONT]
Click to expand...

I have a business in a neighboring city (and own the building it is in) and while the fire inspectors do come yearly to check that fire extinguishers are maintained, if the business isn't open when they stop by, you simply get the bill in the mail. No follow-up visit.
 
CARIIS said:
was not what he said the first week, he said he was too big - right now is the first time I heard (from you guys!) about his clothes on fire- and I followed this tragedy pretty intensely.
Click to expand...

Snipped for focus. I can't find it now but I saw him interviewed very early on and he mentioned that the friend was large and had injured his ankle.

He also mentioned how close the fire was; he even turned around and showed that his vest was burned.

Gives me chills remembering his story.

ETA: Found the interview. His name is Bob Mule.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Oakland-Fire-Survivor-Thankful-to-Be-Alive-404495506.html
 
Jax49 said:
Snipped for focus. I can't find it now but I saw him interviewed very early on and he mentioned that the friend was large and had injured his ankle.

He also mentioned how close the fire was; he even turned around and showed that his vest was burned.

Gives me chills remembering his story.

ETA: Found the interview. His name is Bob Mule.

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Oakland-Fire-Survivor-Thankful-to-Be-Alive-404495506.html
Click to expand...

Oh, I thought he added that the friend was on fire, which I never heard him say.
 
human said:
I doubt if anyone has memorized the list of buildings and their uses. So if no permit was applied for, unless someone complained, no one would know.

Think of buidlings by you. Do you know what the permits are?
Click to expand...

I can not imagine people not knowing that, at times, 25 people were living there, and that they were advertising online for at least two concerts a month!!!!!

If it were squatters maybe.

I wonder if a solution might be power company involvement -not to throw anyone out, but can direct where safety inspections are needed.

I would think that if we looked back at electric bills a spike would have to be observed when 10000 square feet was hooked up to the car place.

Even at a common sense level boxes don't shower cook eat !!

I would think the same would apply to water usage.

Not to kick people out tho- to highlight humans in buildings!!

All this kicking out people is just moving a problem around solves nothing IMO.

According to the Fire Protection Research Organization's 2009 Fire Sprinkler Cost Assessment, sprinkler installation costs homebuilders [FONT=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]$0.38-$3.66 per [/FONT]sprinklered[FONT=Roboto, arial, sans-serif] square foot, with an average cost of [/FONT][FONT=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]$1.61 per [/FONT]sprinklered[FONT=Roboto, arial, sans-serif] square foot. For an average 2,200-square-foot home, expect to pay about $3,542.[/FONT]


communities with no sprinkler ordinance or a recently passed ordinance. Communities with a sprinkler ordinance in place for more than five years tend to experience market acceptance, the Fire Protection Research Organization says, which means increased competition and lower prices.


  • Organization says, which means increased competition and lower prices.
  • The type of piping used in home fire sprinkler systems can significantly affect the cost.
slab foundations average $0.81 per sprinklered square foot; homes with basement foundations averaged $1.81 per sprinklered square foot; and those with crawl space foundations averaged $0.92 per sprinklered square foot.


  • Communities with sprinkler ordinances typically charge permit and inspection fees. Some communities have flat fees, and others base the fees on square footage or value of the house. Typically, the permit costs are $50-$350, but some communities charge as high as $800 in permit fees.

http://home.costhelper.com/fire-sprinkler.html#extres6


[FONT=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS702US702&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=cost%20of%20installing%20fire%20sprinker%20system

[/FONT]Odd ends for Oakland fire law

[FONT=&quot]Every permit shall also contain an agreement as follows which shall be executed by the permit holder as a condition of issuance:[/FONT]
[FONT=Open Sans, sans-serif, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]"I hereby agree to save, defend, indemnify and keep harmless the City of Oakland and its officials, officers, employees, representatives, agents and volunteers from all actions, claims, demands, litigation, or proceedings, including those for attorneys' fees, against the City in consequence of the granting of this permit or from the use or occupancy of the public right-of-way, public easement, or any sidewalk, street or sub-sidewalk or otherwise by virtue thereof, and will in all things strictly comply with the conditions under which this permit is granted. I further certify that I am the owner of the property involved in this permit or that I am fully authorized by the owner to access the property and perform the work authorized by this permit."establish uniform schedules and rates based upon the type of use of property and the risk classification of the structures or other improvements on, or the use of, the property. The risk classification may include, but need not be limited to, the amount of water required for fire suppression on that property, the structure size, type of construction, structure use, and other factors relating to potential fire and panic hazards and liabilities, the costs of providing the fire suppression by the city to that property, and any other factors which reflect the benefit to the land resulting from the fire suppression, prevention and preparedness services. The assessment shall be related to the benefits to the property assessed.[/FONT]

[FONT=Open Sans, sans-serif, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]https://www.municode.com/library/ca/oakland/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TIT15BUCO_CH15.18FISUPRPRDI[/FONT]





Larger Home: $7,000-$16,000
 
Hummm

Portable Fire Suppression System

No idea what I am talking about!! But wondered if there was a cheaper way!!

91-0019_a-full.jpg


https://www.narescue.com/media/cata...525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/9/1/91-0019_a-full.jpg

These things ya hang over your stove

53754d83b81a18ec9dd67384adbcc3f4


https://www.auto-out.com/

While i in the "sprinkler " mode it occurred to me, water raining down on your computer, monitor, fan toaster oven anything plugged in ---- water + electricity = sparks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
CARIIS said:
So strange. look at some of the stuff ----2 x 4's unscathed


Derick Ion and Micah Allison IMO need to answer for their actions but I'm afraid they will get away with it, maybe with a fine and some community work, I don't know. The owner may get hit harder but again I don't think she'll see jail time. I'm afraid this is all going to be settled through civil suits. I hope I'm wrong.

I am with you-it just seems with all the media we would have heard "DI and MA were taken to the police station and questioned at length".

That would be a big story - but we have not heard that - so does that really mean that it has not happened?

So maybe nothing will happen for them? How can that be?

And it is not like we are going to learn "more" about the dangers inside - it's all burnt out. So what does it take to file charges?

The only thing, I think, left to learn is origin, but that has nothing to do with how quickly it propagated because of the dangers.

So it goes back to -- maybe no charges criminally?
Click to expand...

I wasn't going to mention this, but since you did CARIIS (hi there!)...

I spent an absolutely embarrassing amount of time yesterday staring at these photos. What I was staring at, aside from those sad little fire extinguishers on the right, was the unscathed wooden structures. I finally had a light bulb moment! Those were put there after the fire to brace the structure up for safety purposes. If you mentally remove those from the photo, there's nothing left but a gutted building just like I'd imagined. Sorry if I'm pointing out the obvious, I just wasn't getting it.

As to the rest of your post, and just in general, I haven't been following as close as I did in the beginning. I pop in every day and grow more and more disheartened. Tenants rights, blah blah, that's not our job, blah blah, no one knew this or that, blah blah, and so on. I knew that would happen to some extent, but I've had this horrible feeling from the beginning that no positive changes would come out of this tragedy, and maybe no one would even be punished for it. I'm still hoping, because I want to believe these beautiful people did not die completely in vain, that somehow this will improve the safety of others.

Because this story hurt my soul so deeply, it's also made me far less patient than usual. I want to see the ball (and some heads!) rolling.

On a happier note, Happy Holidays everyone. This had made me so thankful that all my loved ones will be present at the festivities this year.
 
CARIIS said:
I can not imagine people not knowing that, at times, 25 people were living there, and that they were advertising online for at least two concerts a month!!!!!

If it were squatters maybe.

I wonder if a solution might be power company involvement -not to throw anyone out, but can direct where safety inspections are needed.

I would think that if we looked back at electric bills a spike would have to be observed when 10000 square feet was hooked up to the car place.

Even at a common sense level boxes don't shower cook eat !!

I would think the same would apply to water usage.

Not to kick people out tho- to highlight humans in buildings!!

All this kicking out people is just moving a problem around solves nothing IMO.

According to the Fire Protection Research Organization's 2009 Fire Sprinkler Cost Assessment, sprinkler installation costs homebuilders [FONT=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]$0.38-$3.66 per [/FONT]sprinklered[FONT=Roboto, arial, sans-serif] square foot, with an average cost of [/FONT][FONT=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]$1.61 per [/FONT]sprinklered[FONT=Roboto, arial, sans-serif] square foot. For an average 2,200-square-foot home, expect to pay about $3,542.[/FONT]


communities with no sprinkler ordinance or a recently passed ordinance. Communities with a sprinkler ordinance in place for more than five years tend to experience market acceptance, the Fire Protection Research Organization says, which means increased competition and lower prices.


  • Organization says, which means increased competition and lower prices.
  • The type of piping used in home fire sprinkler systems can significantly affect the cost.
slab foundations average $0.81 per sprinklered square foot; homes with basement foundations averaged $1.81 per sprinklered square foot; and those with crawl space foundations averaged $0.92 per sprinklered square foot.


  • Communities with sprinkler ordinances typically charge permit and inspection fees. Some communities have flat fees, and others base the fees on square footage or value of the house. Typically, the permit costs are $50-$350, but some communities charge as high as $800 in permit fees.

http://home.costhelper.com/fire-sprinkler.html#extres6


[FONT=Roboto, arial, sans-serif]https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS702US702&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=cost%20of%20installing%20fire%20sprinker%20system

[/FONT]Odd ends for Oakland fire law

[FONT="]Every permit shall also contain an agreement as follows which shall be executed by the permit holder as a condition of issuance:[/FONT][/COLOR]
[FONT=Open Sans, sans-serif, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][COLOR=#313335]"I hereby agree to save, defend, indemnify and keep harmless the City of Oakland and its officials, officers, employees, representatives, agents and volunteers from all actions, claims, demands, litigation, or proceedings, including those for attorneys' fees, against the City in consequence of the granting of this permit or from the use or occupancy of the public right-of-way, public easement, or any sidewalk, street or sub-sidewalk or otherwise by virtue thereof, and will in all things strictly comply with the conditions under which this permit is granted. I further certify that I am the owner of the property involved in this permit or that I am fully authorized by the owner to access the property and perform the work authorized by this permit."establish uniform schedules and rates based upon the type of use of property and the risk classification of the structures or other improvements on, or the use of, the property. The risk classification may include, but need not be limited to, the amount of water required for fire suppression on that property, the structure size, type of construction, structure use, and other factors relating to potential fire and panic hazards and liabilities, the costs of providing the fire suppression by the city to that property, and any other factors which reflect the benefit to the land resulting from the fire suppression, prevention and preparedness services. The assessment shall be related to the benefits to the property assessed.[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Open Sans, sans-serif, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif][COLOR=#313335]https://www.municode.com/library/ca/oakland/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TIT15BUCO_CH15.18FISUPRPRDI[/COLOR][/FONT]
[B][/B]
[B][/B]



[TABLE="align: left"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 261"]Larger Home: $7,000-$16,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Click to expand...


I would guess that most people have no clue about permits. I wouod guess that most people never question if the building they are going into is fire safe. I can say it never has crossed my mind.

As far as anyone knowing people lived there, why would anyone question the validity of it? Why would anyone wonder? It would never cross my mind nor would I care.

If I lived in that neighborhood, I would care about the trash, but I would never question if the people had the right to be there. Why would anyone? Most people's lives are filled with trying to live their own life instead of wondering if someone has a permit.

Really, has anyone wondered about permits where you live?
 
CARIIS said:
MeBeth Othelo?? BUT you must admit you listened, and wanted to hear what he was going to say next - fess up ha!!

At times he reminded me of Gerry Spence an amazing hom sapian to just "listen" to !!

At the same time, it kinda fits that Derrick would be "attracted" to his history!!

So bizarre , I was somewhat relieved when I read that he hired an attorney - it had blown my mind, that in this day and age, dude, (DI)you really are not grasping where this is going

It was actually scary!!


I would love to know the exact retain date- was it weeks ago- or did it really take him this long to grasp the enormity of the situation here??

The steps are just horrible. But for your children - that's an angle that is really a mess IMO.
Its not like there was a shortage of wood in the place!

Just the whole thing - who would want to negotiate that shi$ 8 times a day??

But, when I read that NG knew about what was going on with the power sharing I moved over to the your going to "prison" camp.

What little I know about this kind of thing- how do lay people play around with main feeds into buildings? I would think power would have to be cut?

But if your doing the main feed (big buildings - it included both of them) doesn;t that take the power company?
Click to expand...

Several years ago the house next to me was raided for having 700 marijuana plants. The people who set it up somehow cut into the main power to the house and was getting the electricity for free. It was said in the news it could have killed whoever did it. The power was not shut off from the main power pole by the power company. It was live when they did it. The rewired huge power bundles through out the house. The raid involved 20 homes that all did this. The house next door was the last one to be set up. So I guess it can be done but fatal if done wrong. Moo
 
human said:
I would guess that most people have no clue about permits. I wouod guess that most people never question if the building they are going into is fire safe. I can say it never has crossed my mind.

As far as anyone knowing people lived there, why would anyone question the validity of it? Why would anyone wonder? It would never cross my mind nor would I care.

If I lived in that neighborhood, I would care about the trash, but I would never question if the people had the right to be there. Why would anyone? Most people's lives are filled with trying to live their own life instead of wondering if someone has a permit.

Really, has anyone wondered about permits where you live?
Click to expand...

Good point on a civilian level, my confusion was that "officials" claimed not to know that anyone was there- that just seems hard to grasp
 
CARIIS said:
Good point on a civilian level, my confusion was that "officials" claimed not to know that anyone was there- that just seems hard to grasp
Click to expand...

Think of how many buildings might be in Oakland. The permits are obtained from a department in the city. Who checks up on the permit holders?

I was on my zoning board in a town of 2000. We could never keep up with the permits as the zoning administrator was very parttime. The administrator always wanted to check permits, but the time never allowed for it. We have two commercial businesses and one industrial. The rest are home businesses.

The usual way of discovering problems was if a neighbor complained. Derick told the renters to pretend they did not live there.

And if someone fights the community rules, it takes forever. Sometimes years. Who would know what goes on inside of a building and why would they even bother unless there was some kind of reported issue?

(I am beyond freaked out today so I am incredibly crabby and depressed)
 
human said:
Think of how many buildings might be in Oakland. The permits are obtained from a department in the city. Who checks up on the permit holders?

I was on my zoning board in a town of 2000. We could never keep up with the permits as the zoning administrator was very parttime. The administrator always wanted to check permits, but the time never allowed for it. We have two commercial businesses and one industrial. The rest are home businesses.

The usual way of discovering problems was if a neighbor complained. Derick told the renters to pretend they did not live there.

And if someone fights the community rules, it takes forever. Sometimes years. Who would know what goes on inside of a building and why would they even bother unless there was some kind of reported issue?

(I am beyond freaked out today so I am incredibly crabby and depressed)
Click to expand...

Hugs, human. :heartbeat: I think you make very good points and I agree with all of them. In a perfect world, there would be perfect compliance with laws and/or perfect enforcement by the government. Obviously that's not happening. Hiring more enforcers costs money and raises taxes...NOBODY wants higher taxes, even to educate children.

I don't think the Oakland government agencies are making excuses. I think they are keeping it real. Of course they would have wanted to prevent this fire! They aren't evil. But realistically, for many regrettable and understandable reasons, this building went unnoticed. And had the proper processes been started, it would have become a long, drawn out dispute, during which time this fire could have easily happened anyway.

But people feel better blaming the government that didn't have enough staff to do what was needed to prevent this. No one is the villain here except DIA and MA. They took advantage of the lack of oversight by the owner and the city and built a death trap. There would have been no fire in this warehouse and no deaths without their totally self-centered illegal actions. An empty or properly permitted use of space would not have burned. If the city and owner had intervened, these two would have used every delaying tactic possible had they been inspected and evicted.

It's a horrible tragedy. I hope it will never happen again. But the changes required to prevent another fire create other problems, as we've discussed on this thread. I hope the city finds the balance. And above all, I hope that DIA and MA are held accountable in criminal and civil court.
All JMO, MOO, etc.
 
Lilibet said:
Hugs, human. :heartbeat: I think you make very good points and I agree with all of them. In a perfect world, there would be perfect compliance with laws and/or perfect enforcement by the government. Obviously that's not happening. Hiring more enforcers costs money and raises taxes...NOBODY wants higher taxes, even to educate children.

I don't think the Oakland government agencies are making excuses. I think they are keeping it real. Of course they would have wanted to prevent this fire! They aren't evil. But realistically, for many regrettable and understandable reasons, this building went unnoticed. And had the proper processes been started, it would have become a long, drawn out dispute, during which time this fire could have easily happened anyway.

But people feel better blaming the government that didn't have enough staff to do what was needed to prevent this. No one is the villain here except DIA and MA. They took advantage of the lack of oversight by the owner and the city and built a death trap. There would have been no fire in this warehouse and no deaths without their totally self-centered illegal actions. An empty or properly permitted use of space would not have burned. If the city and owner had intervened, these two would have used every delaying tactic possible had they been inspected and evicted.

It's a horrible tragedy. I hope it will never happen again. But the changes required to prevent another fire create other problems, as we've discussed on this thread. I hope the city finds the balance. And above all, I hope that DIA and MA are held accountable in criminal and civil court.
All JMO, MOO, etc.
Click to expand...

How quiet were these rave parties that were held there previously?

I would think somebody would have complained about them before.

You would think the cops and fire marshall would kick everyone out.
 
DexterMorgan said:
How quiet were these rave parties that were held there previously?

I would think somebody would have complained about them before.

You would think the cops and fire marshall would kick everyone out.
Click to expand...
BBM

Again, in a perfect world, yes they'd kick everyone out. But kicking people out is far from easy, even when they are clearly breaking the law. It's not like two or three dozen police can just show up and kick out the artists. Maybe the party goers, but not DIA and his "renters." There are processes that have to be followed and it takes ages. Can you imagine the protests DIA and company would have organized in the art community if the police showed up to evict them?! Or even if the landlord evicted them. It all sounds so easy. I wish it was.
 
CARIIS said:
Git

How is your brother getting along?

How are you all getting along?

Was relieved to learn that the media got 15 min and 15 secs wrong for 10 days.



was not what he said the first week, he said he was too big - right now is the first time I heard (from you guys!) about his clothes on fire- and I followed this tragedy pretty intensely.

[FONT=&amp]Oakland Fire Chief Teresa Deloach Reed said :[/FONT]

[FONT=&amp]"We do not inspect buildings, we inspect businesses," Reed said during a press conference. "There were no indications this was an active business."

WTH???

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]The fire chief said the warehouse wasn't on the department's list of businesses to inspect because no one ever applied for permits to occupy the building.

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]That is just too govermenty for me! Cops eat at Wnedys. Firemen probably also. How on earth can anyone , with credibility, claim that for 8 years or whatever, human beings were not inside?

Personally. I would prefer to own it not come up with inane statements like above - that is absurd.

Folks with kids want the child to own that they got in the cookie jar when they were not supposed to.

Come in officials - your looking more and more like idiots - which is becoming more and more insulting considering your endless promises to get to the bottom of this.

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]...... Almena, the sometime photographer who rented the warehouse and sublet it to artists, has not responded to emails or calls by The AP to phone numbers associated with him.

[/FONT]http://www.14news.com/story/34042443/chief-fire-department-unaware-of-oakland-warehouse-concerns
Click to expand...

It was a misquote of Jen's mom by the Sacbee. Definitely 15 seconds. I got that from the deputy who found her. Straight from his mouth.

My brother was doing better today. But waves and ups and downs. He's been on tranquilizers and other stuff to help him through. He keeps talking to priests. Every day. Feeling a lot of guilt. Ton of regret. Crying a lot about hard times she had in life and times people hurt her. He is having a super hard time remembering the times she was happy. He just keeps lamenting about rough stuff she went through and all the people who hurt her. Like feeling she had a hard time and then died too soon. And he's constantly wondering about the afterlife. Is there one? Is she in heaven? Is she happy? Does she know he's sorry he wasn't a better husband. That he is sorry he wasn't there to protect her. He wonders if she can hear him.

My brother had an intense fear that something was going to happen to Jennifer the whole time they were married. He felt she was never aware enough about danger. That she took risks. I agreed with him. (We are a cautious family). But he never tried to hem her in. He just tried to make her be aware. Asked her to take Krav Maga lessons with him. Stuff like that. Dropped everything to rush to her side when anything bad happened. He felt he had to protect her. After the separation, he told a mutual friend that he was worried about her and the friend said he was being misogynistic: "She can take care of herself. She doesn't need a man to take care of her." But he wasn't like that. He doesn't worry about me that way, for example. There was just something slightly vulnerable about her.

Then she died.

So it's been very rough for him. And torture to watch. We all miss her and can't believe she's gone. She just spent a few weeks at my home this past summer. So darling and curious and interested in the world. Its been the worst. It seems like a crazy nightmare. I found a bunch of photos of her and me on my phone on Satruday when I was looking for something else. Gut punch. And photos I took of her posing outside because she was so gorgeous.

This has been the worst thing I think I've experienced. My dad slowly rotting of cancer was catastrophic. Something about this feels worse. Maybe because time has passed since my dad died? Or because his cancer diagnosis wasn't surprising? I don't know. I just don't remember not being able to sleep because I was lying there shaking super hard, when my dad was dying. But waiting for notification about my sister in law was hell on earth. Even though it was expected. And the cruelty of her death. The life cut so short. I think it's just the horror of the situation, her age, and the craziness of some people surrounding all of this who have made it worse.

Today was the first day I've really read the threads about this tragedy and some of the news reports. Looking at anything in the paper, online or on the tv has been sickening and I've avoided it. The things im seeing have really pissed me off. That video someone took of that sh!!t hole as it really was? I can't explain how violent that makes me feel.

Im sorry I haven't responded yet to all the beautiful PM's everyone has sent me. I've read them. It's been super chaotic. I will as soon as I can. We have the burial in a couple days. Flying back up tomorrow.
 
Sending nothing but love and huge hugs to you, your dear brother and all who love and miss Jennifer. Thank you for sharing your pain and your brother's with us, Gitana. I hope that helps lighten your heavy load a little. You know we would walk with you and your brother and help carry this pain if we could. Peace be with you all.
Lilibet :heartbeat:
 
Gitana,
Our thoughts & prayers have been with you and your family all of these terrible not-knowing-and-then-knowing days. You don't need to thank us any more than you already have. We know you would be right there for any of us, and have been when someone had to deal with pain & sorrow. Just take one day at a time, Gypsy Girl, and know that you are loved by many.
 
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Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

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