Thanks,-reviewing history, either of people and/or places leads me to a better assessment, or at least understanding, of the incomprehensible.
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Thanks,-reviewing history, either of people and/or places leads me to a better assessment, or at least understanding, of the incomprehensible.
Schipperke
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I understand where you are coming from. Everything stays on the table until it is invalidated or explained. Life is full of paradoxes. Must have been difficult for children who knew this boy. From what I hear, the house sat across the street from a pretty large church in the area. I couldn't have any recollection of 1949, but do remember some things there from later in the 1950's. It is surprising that I never knew the the story before now. I vaguely remember the major bus connecting point there in the 1960's. Recently had to visit Thomas Stone Elementary, and was surprised at how just much the area has changed since then--roads and everything.
As a couple of WS members are interested, here's a possible new thread.
These Branchville Firehouse dance attendees ,who went missing are queried as possible victims of LLW (Lee) in my PM's. Missing on June 1 Shelby Venable was a former resident of Hawkins Cty TN (Bulls Gap). Both were found strangled and dump in the river, nine miles apart five decades ago in 1956.
LLW Sr. was discharged from army in May 1956. He drank in excess. His son LLW2 was born in Dec. 1956 to Margaret Dull and has implicated his father in the Lyon's sisters case. Lee was noted as a 'drunk' by his deceased wife. Was Lee's wife's auto mishap an accident or deliberate? His son in TN is "missing". Overheard a deathbed confession is just a rumor, I'm speculating. So is Lloyd Lee Welch Jr. a product of abuse, neglect, etc or a "homegrown killer?" An innocent man framed ? VA and MD State police investigated this double murder and probably have the cold case records in boxes.
This double murder done by "some fiendish mind" is considered unsolved, and reopened a few years back, why? Melvin D. Rees 1933-1995 confessed to this crime (see link)
https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=ewgGAAAAIBAJ&pg=4500,4100704&hl=en
My suggestion is- get together on the 'same page', and stick to the verified facts. Try by researching the digital footprints of historical older than dirt public newspapers. Erwin Jr. saw a scar faced man in a blue Ford pick up his sister and her friend at a bus stop in Laurel MD (see link)
http://fultonhistory.com/Process sm...57/Rogersville TN Review 1956-1957 - 0147.pdf
These Branchville Firehouse dance attendees ,who went missing are queried as possible victims of LLW (Lee) in my PM's. Missing on June 1 Shelby Venable was a former resident of Hawkins Cty TN (Bulls Gap). Both were found strangled and dump in the river, nine miles apart five decades ago in 1956.
LLW Sr. was discharged from army in May 1956. He drank in excess. His son LLW2 was born in Dec. 1956 to Margaret Dull and has implicated his father in the Lyon's sisters case. Lee was noted as a 'drunk' by his deceased wife. Was Lee's wife's auto mishap an accident or deliberate? His son in TN is "missing". Overheard a deathbed confession is just a rumor, I'm speculating. So is Lloyd Lee Welch Jr. a product of abuse, neglect, etc or a "homegrown killer?" An innocent man framed ? VA and MD State police investigated this double murder and probably have the cold case records in boxes.
This double murder done by "some fiendish mind" is considered unsolved, and reopened a few years back, why? Melvin D. Rees 1933-1995 confessed to this crime (see link)
https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=ewgGAAAAIBAJ&pg=4500,4100704&hl=en
My suggestion is- get together on the 'same page', and stick to the verified facts. Try by researching the digital footprints of historical older than dirt public newspapers. Erwin Jr. saw a scar faced man in a blue Ford pick up his sister and her friend at a bus stop in Laurel MD (see link)
http://fultonhistory.com/Process sm...57/Rogersville TN Review 1956-1957 - 0147.pdf
Schipperke
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Foureyes, perhaps you could also post the beginning of the article. Given the close proximity of the family residences in Hyattsville, could LLW1 and Rees have known each other? Or maybe the families knew each other or were possibly related? I am detail oriented. "Verified" means more than "it was in the newspaper" or "It is on the internet." We may be able to agree on that, but who knows?
Schipperke
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Here is another repeat of previously posted information (by other WS members) which may possibly be related. A body, found the day after the Lyon girls went missing, which has never been identified. The location was at the Holiday Inn at BWI Airport. I have nothing new to offer, but perhaps periodic reposting will bring some closure whether or not it is related to the sisters who went missing the day before.
[h=1]Case Report - NamUs UP # 5440[/h][h=1]Case Information[/h]
[h=3]Local Contact (ME/C or Other)[/h]
[h=3]Case Manager[/h]
[h=1]Demographics[/h]
[h=1]Circumstances[/h]
[h=1]Physical[/h]
[h=1]Medical[/h]
[h=1]Fingerprints[/h]
[h=1]Clothing and Accessories[/h]
[h=1]Dental[/h]
[h=1]DNA[/h]
[h=1]Images[/h]
[h=1]Documents[/h]
[h=1]Case Report - NamUs UP # 5440[/h][h=1]Case Information[/h]
| Status | Unidentified |
| Case number | 99111 |
| Date found | March 26, 1975 00:00 |
| Date created | June 24, 2009 16:30 |
| Date last modified | December 04, 2014 13:42 |
| Investigating agency date QA reviewed | June 25, 2009 05:26 |
[h=3]Local Contact (ME/C or Other)[/h]
| Agency | MD Ofc of Chief St Med Examiner |
| Phone | 410-333-3225 |
[h=3]Case Manager[/h]
| Name | Charlotte Noranbrock |
| Phone | 410-333-3254 |
[h=1]Demographics[/h]
| Estimated age | Adult - Pre 30 |
| Minimum age | 19 years |
| Maximum age | 29 years |
| Race | White |
| Ethnicity | |
| Sex | Male |
| Weight (pounds) | 156, Measured |
| Height (inches) | 70, Measured |
| [h=3]Body Parts Inventory (Check all that apply)[/h] | |
| All parts recovered | |
| Head not recovered | |
| Torso not recovered | |
| One or more limbs not recovered | |
| One or both hands not recovered |
| Body conditions |
| Recognizable face |
| Probable year of death | 1975 to 1975 |
| Estimated postmortem interval | Days |
[h=1]Circumstances[/h]
| [h=3]Location Found[/h] | |
| GPS coordinates | |
| Address 1 | Airport Drive |
| Address 2 | Holiday Inn |
| City | Linthicum |
| State | Maryland |
| Zip code | |
| County | Anne Arundel |
| Circumstances |
| Subject found deceased in Room 308 of the Holiday Inn. The subject may have been a drug and/or alcohol abuser and/or suffered from depression. |
[h=1]Physical[/h]
| Hair color | Brown | |
| Head hair | Medium brown, 3 to 4 inches in length | |
| Body hair | ||
| Facial hair | 2 days growth, sideburns | |
| Left eye color | Blue | |
| Right eye color | Blue | |
| Eye description | Blue | |
| No other distinctive body features | ||
| Distinctive features as described below | ||
| Amputations | ||
| Deformities | ||
| Scars and marks | 2 inch mole on right lower back | |
| Tattoos | ||
| Piercings | ||
| Artificial body parts and aids | ||
| Finger and toe nails | ||
| Other distinctive physical characteristics | Circumcised |
[h=1]Medical[/h]
| Medical implants | ||
| Foreign objects | ||
| Skeletal findings | ||
| Organ absent | ||
| Prior surgery | ||
| Other medical information | Mole on right lower back. Circumcised |
[h=1]Fingerprints[/h]
| Status: | Fingerprint information is currently not available |
[h=1]Clothing and Accessories[/h]
| No clothing or accessories | |
| Clothing and accessories are described below |
| Clothing on body | White undershirt, jockey shorts |
| Clothing with body | |
| Footwear | |
| Jewelry | |
| Eyewear | |
| Other items found with body |
[h=1]Dental[/h]
| Status: | Dental information / charting is available and entered |
[h=1]DNA[/h]
| Status: | Sample available - Not yet submitted |
[h=1]Images[/h]
Public viewable |
[h=1]Documents[/h]
| There are currently no documents available for this case. |
Schipperke
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This, too, is from a previous posting. Wondering if the missing since date on this could have been the "date reported missing" rather than the "date last seen." It is not clear whether he was with a family or possibly in a residential living facility.
Registered User
Originally Posted by Richard
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Steven Eugene Anderson
Missing since April 7, 1975 from New Lisbon, Burlington County, New Jersey
Classification: Endangered Missing
NCIC Number: M-011914999
Vital Statistics
Date Of Birth: April 25, 1957
Age at Time of Disappearance: 17 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'9; 150 pounds
Distinguishing Characteristics: White male. Brown, straight, short hair; blue eyes.
Marks, Scars: He has a chicken pox scar on his stomach.
Dentals: Anderson has a chipped front tooth.
Medical Conditions: Anderson is moderately retarded and is not capable of sustaining himself.
Clothing: He was last seen wearing a blue shirt, blue pants and a blue hooded coat.
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[*=-1]04-04-2015, 12:15 PM#419
Join DateSep 2004Posts4,995
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Steven Eugene Anderson
Missing since April 7, 1975 from New Lisbon, Burlington County, New Jersey
Classification: Endangered Missing
NCIC Number: M-011914999
Vital Statistics
Date Of Birth: April 25, 1957
Age at Time of Disappearance: 17 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'9; 150 pounds
Distinguishing Characteristics: White male. Brown, straight, short hair; blue eyes.
Marks, Scars: He has a chicken pox scar on his stomach.
Dentals: Anderson has a chipped front tooth.
Medical Conditions: Anderson is moderately retarded and is not capable of sustaining himself.
Clothing: He was last seen wearing a blue shirt, blue pants and a blue hooded coat.
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People who've seen Macbeth may remember the first witch telling Macbeth, "All Hail, Macbeth! Hail to thee, thane of Glamis!" It's one of the most memorable scenes. [video=youtube;kEidcxBTu0E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEidcxBTu0E[/video]
So who was the Thane of Glamis? Apparently there was only one, Sir John Lyon (homonymous with the father of the Lyon sisters), who was given the title in 1372 before he married Johanna, the daughter of Robert II of Scotland, the first Stuart king. The thane's son was styled Master of Glamis, and eventually the title became Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne. The Queen Mother (Queen Elizabeth II's mother) was born Elizabeth Angela Marguerite Bowes-Lyon. Her father was the 14th and 1st Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne. His last name would have been simply Lyon, only John Lyon the 9th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne changed his last name to Bowes in around 1767 to keep from becoming disinherited out of his father-in-law's will. The original John Lyon (1st Thane of Glamis) was also known as The White Lyon, reminding me of Kimba.
The Earl of Strathmore and Kingborne is seated at Glamis Castle in Scotland. The estate of this castle is called Strathmore. Anyway, I thought conceivably John Lyon's family could have been targeted by some sort of death cultist referencing Macbeth to make hokum. Or maybe the hokum was accidental but noticed by the perp later and referenced in later crimes. The sandals of Terry Cornell, who was murdered in Syracuse, New York, on September 7, 1975, were mysteriously placed in separate locations along Strathmore Drive.
So who was the Thane of Glamis? Apparently there was only one, Sir John Lyon (homonymous with the father of the Lyon sisters), who was given the title in 1372 before he married Johanna, the daughter of Robert II of Scotland, the first Stuart king. The thane's son was styled Master of Glamis, and eventually the title became Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne. The Queen Mother (Queen Elizabeth II's mother) was born Elizabeth Angela Marguerite Bowes-Lyon. Her father was the 14th and 1st Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne. His last name would have been simply Lyon, only John Lyon the 9th Earl of Strathmore and Kinghorne changed his last name to Bowes in around 1767 to keep from becoming disinherited out of his father-in-law's will. The original John Lyon (1st Thane of Glamis) was also known as The White Lyon, reminding me of Kimba.
The Earl of Strathmore and Kingborne is seated at Glamis Castle in Scotland. The estate of this castle is called Strathmore. Anyway, I thought conceivably John Lyon's family could have been targeted by some sort of death cultist referencing Macbeth to make hokum. Or maybe the hokum was accidental but noticed by the perp later and referenced in later crimes. The sandals of Terry Cornell, who was murdered in Syracuse, New York, on September 7, 1975, were mysteriously placed in separate locations along Strathmore Drive.
siriunsun
Former Member
Fascinating, however; LLW probably did not read Macbeth or study Scottish or English surnames much.
True, the scenario only makes much sense if there are others involved, as for instance would be the case if Tape Recorder Man turns out to be relevant.
siriunsun
Former Member
I really think that the fact that Sheila and Katherine were both in the age range of interest to LLW, and had other traits in common with his stereotypical "type" of victim, played bigger roles in his selection of them than their surname. LLW didn't even make it through high school. The surname observation is interesting though, especially in view of the fact that one of the traditional Welsh symbols of antiquity is a lion. And there is also a Strathmore Ave. in Kensington, Md.! (probably a little bit outside of walking distance from where they girls were last seen, though)
Schipperke
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Gruffin, Interesting historical significance if you study names and genealogy. Queen Mother Elizabeth was a LYONS. She was a commoner and not considered a suitable match for a future king, but certainly acceptable for the King's YOUNGER brother. Of course, no one expected for the King to abdicate in favor of an American divorcee with the name Wallis WARFIELD Simpson from BALTIMORE, MD, and set her on the throne with the younger brother. Might be interesting to know if family trees connect or cross at any point with other family surnames. Glamis and Strathmore also figure in her biography. MacBeth maybe? Or, Hatfields and McCoys variety?
www.britainexpress.com/royals/queen-mother.htm
http://baltimorestyle.com/10147/baltimore_the_woman_who_would_be_queen_dec10/
http://www.express.co.uk/news/histo...r-Wallis-Simpson-BBC-drama-Royal-Wives-at-War
www.britainexpress.com/royals/queen-mother.htm
http://baltimorestyle.com/10147/baltimore_the_woman_who_would_be_queen_dec10/
http://www.express.co.uk/news/histo...r-Wallis-Simpson-BBC-drama-Royal-Wives-at-War
siriunsun
Former Member
Interesting, but I am pretty sure that the Welches and the Lyons were unacquainted with each other and would not have even bought into those ideas.
I had not remembered there's a Strathmore Avenue near Kensington, thanks. Just to make clear, if such mumbo jumbo was used to effect in this case, I think it was used on a young and impressionable Lloyd Welch (perhaps together with drugs, sodomy, violence, etc.) and conceivably on others like him. If there be a domineering evil rat even partially behind what LLW2 was doing, may LE get him.
siriunsun
Former Member
I hope everyone involved is held accountable, too. I would be more inclined to call LLW2 self serving, rather than impressionable; though.
Looking at Maryland State Police cold cases, I recently found the case of 14 y/o Paul J. Lentz, who was last seen alive (according to a period newspaper article from the Frederick newspaper, The News) leaving his home in Rockville on June 18, 1975, on his way to a "nearby bowling center". Does anyone remember what bowling alleys were closest to the area where he lived (on Duke Street, Rockville, according to the article), which I assume from the address number was actually South Duke Street? It's about 3/4 mile west of 355 in a neighborhood just south of Gude Drive (I don't remember Gude Drive existing west of 355 in 1975). His badly decomposed body was found 6 days after his disappearance, west of Urbana (in Frederick County) in a ditch near the intersection of Park Mills Road and Md. 80. He had been stabbed, and a hunting knife was found near the body.
I think there may have been a bowling alley on the lower level of Congressional Plaza, the shopping center where ShurlT indicated that on July 1 or 7, 1975, someone likely tried to abduct her daughters when at Murphys. I wonder whether Lentz was going to that bowling alley.
Carla Walker was attacked (to be subsequently murdered) on February 17, 1974, at the parking lot of a bowling alley in Fort Worth, TX, less than six weeks after MC police indicate LLW2 was in Fort Worth.
It's remarkable to me that the Lentz case seems to have never gained much attention. Except at the Maryland State Police link I gave, it doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere online as far as I can tell. I don't remember ever having heard about it.
I think there may have been a bowling alley on the lower level of Congressional Plaza, the shopping center where ShurlT indicated that on July 1 or 7, 1975, someone likely tried to abduct her daughters when at Murphys. I wonder whether Lentz was going to that bowling alley.
Carla Walker was attacked (to be subsequently murdered) on February 17, 1974, at the parking lot of a bowling alley in Fort Worth, TX, less than six weeks after MC police indicate LLW2 was in Fort Worth.
It's remarkable to me that the Lentz case seems to have never gained much attention. Except at the Maryland State Police link I gave, it doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere online as far as I can tell. I don't remember ever having heard about it.
This is interesting, Thank you for your post. Sad to say, his murder is close to the time of Kathy Beatty's murder. Anyway, the closest bowling alley to Paul J Lentz's house in 1975 would have been the "Dalamar" which was a bowling alley and also had a skating rink. Congressional Plaza shopping center location is closer to the big Naval Bowling Center half mile from the 'Walter Reed Center' -LLW2 has been seen walking the tracks in that area.
The Dalamar Bowling alley was on Dalamar St (gone) was within "walking distance" from Paul J. Lentz's house. Perhaps DNA is obtainable from the murder weapon, I don't know, back then, forensic tests were crude and 'profiling' was just a new idea being developed by the FBI in VA in the mid 70's.
The Dalamar Bowling alley was on Dalamar St (gone) was within "walking distance" from Paul J. Lentz's house. Perhaps DNA is obtainable from the murder weapon, I don't know, back then, forensic tests were crude and 'profiling' was just a new idea being developed by the FBI in VA in the mid 70's.
Sorry, should have said less than six weeks after LLW2 was in Austin, TX. There is 190 miles between these cities.
I actually remember a friend's mom driving me to the Dalamar bowling alley for her son's birthday party about 1975. Google Maps says that it would be a 5.1 mile drive from Lentz's home. Congressional Plaza is 4.5 miles from his home. Googling "Congressional Plaza Bowl", the bowling team from there won the 1959-60 National Capitol Area bowling championship, and it existed in 1986 according to a Washington Post article. So it seems to me that probably there was bowling there in 1975, although I don't recall ever bowling there. A walk toward Congressional Plaza might be more difficult and dangerous due to traffic--it's a fifteen minute drive either way. My guess is that if he was going to one of those two bowling alleys he would have taken a Metro bus on 355, either from 355 or Montgomery College. Of course, that the body was deposited in Frederick County is somewhat more suggestive of his having gone bowling at Dalamar, north of where he lived, closer to Frederick County. If the attempted abduction of ShurlT's daughters happened before the murder of Lentz, I'd definitely think Lentz was taken at Congressional Plaza, but presumably that's not the reality of the sequence. Maybe the police know which bowling center.
There was a colorful family restaurant, the Peter Pan Inn, where 80 met 355 in Urbana. My family ate there about twice when I was a child, and I remember liking it.
I don't have much reason to think the cases connected, but Donna Marie Emmel, 15, was strangled in Newport, North Carolina, on June 16, two days before Lentz was last seen alive. I don't believe she has been mentioned in this forum. For sure, Lentz's case could be connected with that of Kathy Beatty as well.
Schipperke
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Amazing how many disappearances just fell out of the reporting system during the 70's in Montgomery County in this area and in other areas of the country as well. It is even more amazing that some of the known cases have no files or records to be found. I was told that part of the problem came from crossing jurisdictions from where the person was last seen and where the bodies were found. Cooperation and sharing of information seems to be an underlying problem within LE jurisdictions. But the sheer number of cases overall has a lot to do with it as well. Unless there is someone "pushing and guiding it down center of the road," a case is likely to slip into the storm drain and disappear. I often think about Carlene Tengelson of Macon GA as one of those left behind. It is so sad to realize that her mother lived with that kind of loss all those years and just recently passed without getting answers in life.
There are also two girls from right there near Roanoke who have never been found as well.
BTW Judge in Bedford ruled yesterday that LLW2's statements are "in" and his deal with MOCo is "in" as well, according to Angela Hatcher (news person from Roanoke). I think there is still another motion to be ruled on before the end of the month. Not completely sure, but I think it has something to do with VA's death penalty being connected to this case. I don't understand why there is even a question about that if they can prove murder, but I guess we will find out soon.
There are also two girls from right there near Roanoke who have never been found as well.
BTW Judge in Bedford ruled yesterday that LLW2's statements are "in" and his deal with MOCo is "in" as well, according to Angela Hatcher (news person from Roanoke). I think there is still another motion to be ruled on before the end of the month. Not completely sure, but I think it has something to do with VA's death penalty being connected to this case. I don't understand why there is even a question about that if they can prove murder, but I guess we will find out soon.
siriunsun
Former Member
LLW's first statement is not going to be shared with the jury, but subsequent statements and conversations are.