The Kratz book

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Saul Vesalot said:
I'm calling the police. You have pushed me down the conspiracy rabbit hole. I will be lucky to get out of here alive.
Click to expand...

I have rope... I will throw it down if you can't find your way out ;-)


Is this Leslie Lemieux in any way related to the the Lemieux on the RAV4 sticker?

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Exhibit-307-RAV4-Back.jpg

Could make getting one of those stickers for a swapped out car much easier.... hmmm.
Click to expand...

Everyone is related to everyone there :scared:




Here is part of page 20 of the CASO

So if Avery is trying to be secret about his identity, this fell through immediately. So even if he WAS being sneaky, (maybe he just gave the name of the owner of the vehicle he was trying to sell), it did not work. Teresa knew where she was going and who she would likely be dealing with and she was "somewhat concerned" but not in any way living in terror. Makes the "would not go back" statement seem a bit fishy.

Couldn't find anything more useful in the CASO about this Dawn. There is a second dawn, a Dawn H who is a different person. Just a heads up to avoid confusion.
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Ohhhh Dawn... she testifies to something completely different at trial. She no longer has a clue that Janda's and Avery's are the same. And, there is that towel... I don't see that it is described as "small" like KK said, but ya know... what's a bit of embellishment for the sake of sales? :rolleyes:

Interesting to note that Dawn's interview was done by Weigert... who was not informed about TH being a missing person until after she talked to KH, SB, and Angela, by Lemieux. Page 3:

I notified Inv. WEIGERT of the CALUMET CO. SHERIFF'S DEPT. of the situation. Inv.
WIEGERT and I responded to TERESA's residence ....

Also, to note... the log indicates that KH called around 2:52pm, they didn't get back to her until 5:00... that's how I'm reading the following log anyway..

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/CASO-Dispatch-Log-redacted.pdf
 
So I had a thought... and went and had a look. Remember that RH said that he "guessed" TH's password for online cingular account, accessed her account and was able to see her incoming/outgoing calls that day. I think it's been established that he called cingular and either reset it or whatever, but look at the times.

I just had a look at his phone records that are attached to the Motion for Scientific Testing. He made 3 calls to Cingular on November 3rd.

RH phone records snip.PNG

5:15, 5:17, and 5:18pm.

Lemieux starts investigating at 5pm... calls KH, SB, and then Angela. Ryan gets the cingular report at say... 5:18 ... he was on the phone for 10 minutes, so was probably after this, but okay, 5:18pm. When exactly did SB call SA? and how would he know to call SA? The number on TH's records belonged to Barb. Angela at shortly after 5 said calls were out to see if she made her appointments on Monday but she didn't know yet.


ETA: the family and SB/RH started to worry earlier in the day, but they still only had BJ's number, and when they got online to see her phone records, the number was STILL BJ's.
 
Saul Vesalot said:
I'm calling the police. You have pushed me down the conspiracy rabbit hole. I will be lucky to get out of here alive.





Is this Leslie Lemieux in any way related to the the Lemieux on the RAV4 sticker?

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Exhibit-307-RAV4-Back.jpg

Could make getting one of those stickers for a swapped out car much easier.... hmmm.




Here is part of page 20 of the CASO

So if Avery is trying to be secret about his identity, this fell through immediately. So even if he WAS being sneaky, (maybe he just gave the name of the owner of the vehicle he was trying to sell), it did not work. Teresa knew where she was going and who she would likely be dealing with and she was "somewhat concerned" but not in any way living in terror. Makes the "would not go back" statement seem a bit fishy.

Couldn't find anything more useful in the CASO about this Dawn. There is a second dawn, a Dawn H who is a different person. Just a heads up to avoid confusion.
[/FONT]
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.
LOL Saul!!!

Great Point! I was thinking the same thing....

I was also thinking about what time Colburn first made contact with SA.

Oh...Missy???
 
missy1974 said:
okay... so first off.. is it in his book? Not saying it isn't, but I don't see it in the preview or when I search.

This was being discussed a few days back on reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/SuperMaM/comments/5soww7/ken_kratzs_guilty_prosecutorial_omission_scott_bs/

The following is a statement from a RH who works at AutoTrader:

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=38

Ms. H**** advised me that someone named DAWN who works at AUTO TRADER stated she
had overheard that STEVEN AVERY had called on yesterday's date (11/03/05) between 4:30
and 5:00 p.m. approximately, because STEVEN needed to reschedule the appointment with the
photographer. STEVEN indicated that the photographer had not made the scheduled meeting on
Monday, 10/31.05.

RACHEL indicated that a subject named SCOTT had called STEVEN regarding TERESA
HALBACH and, apparently, was under the impression STEVEN was not happy about "being
accused of stuff."

So.... from the above, Dawn overheard it, told Rachel, and Rachel called in. I don't see any mention of this in Dawn's interviews... or in her testimony, or Angela's (Dawn's supervisor).


At some point, Dedering is trying to get in touch with GZ to talk to him about calling AT:

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/CASO-Investigative-Report.pdf#page=352

GEORGE once again denied making any sort of phone calls to AUTO TRADER purporting himself to be STEVEN AVERY. I asked GEORGE if it was possible that JASON had contacted AUTO TRADER and he stated he was unsure about this.

Why are they asking him this? what made them think that GZ or his grandson had done this? And what does ONCE AGAIN denied mean, had they asked him before, and when before? And again... why did they ask him in the first place?

I think we need to go back to the basics... go to page 2, when they first responded to the missing person report. The initial investigation from Calumet County didn't start until 5pm on the 3rd. Lemiuex speaks to TH's mom, then Scott B. by phone, then Angela at AT...

ANGELA said that she was waiting for a call back from the appointments to see if they had indeed been completed. ANGELA said she would have become concerned by tomorrow if she had still not heard any.thing from TERESA. ANGELA said TERESA did have scheduled appointments for photoshoots for the AUTO TRADER magazine today. ANGELA said in checking those appointmentsshe was told that TERESA did not show up. ANGELA said they had not received any call or
notice from TERESA that she would not be making those appointments today.

So at that point, it would be after 5pm on Nov 3rd, when it was reported from RH that heard it from DP who overheard someone else that SA called? But Angela doesn't have a clue about that call when talking to LE? :thinking:

If SB or RyanH called the numbers on TH's phone records, they would have called BJ's house. Did someone answer? But if they did, how come we didn't hear that in the trial? Now I'm curious about the messages on that answering machine, we have only heard one, the one that TH left, and IIRC, it was recorded on Remiker's cell phone. Was there a message from RH? SB? Angela?

Oh and... Andy Colborn was the first officer to make contact with SA, SA never denied that TH was there, so this "SA denied TH was there" is a made up fact IMO I think it would be a big deal and would have been part of the trial if it was true. JMO
Click to expand...
Of course it would have been part of the trial🙄
Kratz...what are you thinking???
Smh

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
 
okay... so first off.. is it in his book? Not saying it isn't, but I don't see it in the preview or when I search.

Yes, page 10. I linked it above.
 
The idea that Steven called anyone pretending to be Barb Janda is absurd, IMO.

Did he speak in a falsetto voice like a Monty Python character?

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proudfootz said:
The idea that Steven called anyone pretending to be Barb Janda is absurd, IMO.

Did he speak in a falsetto voice like a Monty Python character?

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Omg😂😂😂

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BigCityAccountant said:
.
LOL Saul!!!

Great Point! I was thinking the same thing....

I was also thinking about what time Colburn first made contact with SA.

Oh...Missy???
Click to expand...

AC's report is on the 2nd last page/last page. And it doesn't state a time, but IIRC it was around 6-6:30pm. He doesn't state he was going to see SA specifically, his intention was actually to talk to his buddy Chuck, or that's what it states ...

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...-Summary-Report-on-Homicide-Investigation.pdf

***Keep in mind that AC wrote that report on June 29th 2006, approximately 7 months after.
 
IF SB or RH or anyone called SA before AC went out to the Avery yard, how did they know it was SA that TH met with???

According to Angela, she didn't know if she made her appointments on Monday yet, but she had calls out (left messages? again, I would like to hear the rest of the messages on Barb's machine). Wiegert called Sipple/Schmitz, and then called Zipperers. No mention of trying to call Barb's. Wiegert wasn't even involved until 17:30, 5:30pm when Lemieux informed him. The best I can tell is that the cingular reports weren't looked at until at least after 5:18pm when RH called cingular. AC didn't know who met with her, he was going to talk to Chuck, not SA.

IF someone at AT told the family/SB that it was SA that called for TH that Monday..... there goes the theory that he lured her there. They can't have it both ways.... he couldn't have lured her there with BJ's number AND know it was SA she was meeting.

JMO of course
 
missy1974 said:
AC's report is on the 2nd last page/last page. And it doesn't state a time, but IIRC it was around 6-6:30pm. He doesn't state he was going to see SA specifically, his intention was actually to talk to his buddy Chuck, or that's what it states ...

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...-Summary-Report-on-Homicide-Investigation.pdf

***Keep in mind that AC wrote that report on June 29th 2006, approximately 7 months after.
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.
From page 4 of the report you posted above, it states that AC met with Dedering at MTSO. There is an entry on CASO dispatch log for CA/817 leaving for MTSO and arriving at MTSO at 8:00 pm. So, we can presume that it had to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 8:00pm because he is back at TH's house at 9:21pm.

So, this supposed call came between 5:28pm (b/c Ryan was on the phone w/Cingular for 10 minutes) and 7:29pm when Dedering goes to MCSO. So who calls when CASO was just sent over there? Why not let CASO call over there? Why interject yourself into it? Seems strange to me. I call BS on the supposed call.

Oh and by the way, CASO arrived at TH's house at 5:01pm. So RH and TH's bro and SB are trying to break into TH's phone records while CASO was on site. CASO allowed them to break the law, or at least looked the other way? Last time I checked, it wasn't lawful to break into someone's phone account, correct me if I'm wrong.
 
I'm at work and cant look at the moment BCA, but IIRC, Lemieux didn't even get wiegert involved until 5:30, that is in Wiegerts first report. I will look later for the codes to read that log.....i dont bring my CASO decoder ring to work with me :biggrin:
 
Found the decoder ring BCA ;-)

CA/C followed by a number is Calumet County, the number is the badge number of the officer.

US - Unit Status
A - arrived
C - cleared
D - dispatched
E - en route
LO - location
ON - officer notes
FR - freed from Incident
UR - unit reassignment
CM - comment
RD - rider (as in one officer is riding with another)
USDS - unit status dispatch stacked (I think that means two dispatchers tried to enter it)
An entry that says Console 00 means it was from an officer's vehicle; C1 and C2 are dispatch consoles. So 00 means it was entered by an officer, and C1 and C2 means it was entered by a dispatcher.
In the "Operator" column, numbers starting with 6 are a dispatcher; numbers starting with 8 are an officer. The letters at the end are the person's initials.

There are a few entries that say "Incident related to" followed by three letters and a bunch of numbers.
Page 10, on 11/8: LBN051108001773 - LBN means Brillion PD created their own dispatch log related to this case
Page 11, on 11/9: LNH051109002583 - LNH is New Holstein
Page 21, on 3/2: LCA060302001764 - LCA is Calumet County. This particular entry was from the search warrant they issued that day, according to the records lady.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/CASO-Dispatch-Log-redacted.pdf

it had to have been after 5:30 when Wiegert was told by Lemieux... so I'm thinking they got to TH's home at 6:21pm. IIRC Wiegert's badge number was 815.
 
missy1974 said:
Found the decoder ring BCA ;-)

CA/C followed by a number is Calumet County, the number is the badge number of the officer.

US - Unit Status
A - arrived
C - cleared
D - dispatched
E - en route
LO - location
ON - officer notes
FR - freed from Incident
UR - unit reassignment
CM - comment
RD - rider (as in one officer is riding with another)
USDS - unit status dispatch stacked (I think that means two dispatchers tried to enter it)
An entry that says Console 00 means it was from an officer's vehicle; C1 and C2 are dispatch consoles. So 00 means it was entered by an officer, and C1 and C2 means it was entered by a dispatcher.
In the "Operator" column, numbers starting with 6 are a dispatcher; numbers starting with 8 are an officer. The letters at the end are the person's initials.

There are a few entries that say "Incident related to" followed by three letters and a bunch of numbers.
Page 10, on 11/8: LBN051108001773 - LBN means Brillion PD created their own dispatch log related to this case
Page 11, on 11/9: LNH051109002583 - LNH is New Holstein
Page 21, on 3/2: LCA060302001764 - LCA is Calumet County. This particular entry was from the search warrant they issued that day, according to the records lady.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/CASO-Dispatch-Log-redacted.pdf

it had to have been after 5:30 when Wiegert was told by Lemieux... so I'm thinking they got to TH's home at 6:21pm. IIRC Wiegert's badge number was 815.
Click to expand...
.
Well, if Weigert's badge number is not 817, then who went over to MTSO at 7:29 pm that day?

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missy1974 said:
IF SB or RH or anyone called SA before AC went out to the Avery yard, how did they know it was SA that TH met with???

According to Angela, she didn't know if she made her appointments on Monday yet, but she had calls out (left messages? again, I would like to hear the rest of the messages on Barb's machine). Wiegert called Sipple/Schmitz, and then called Zipperers. No mention of trying to call Barb's. Wiegert wasn't even involved until 17:30, 5:30pm when Lemieux informed him. The best I can tell is that the cingular reports weren't looked at until at least after 5:18pm when RH called cingular. AC didn't know who met with her, he was going to talk to Chuck, not SA.

IF someone at AT told the family/SB that it was SA that called for TH that Monday..... there goes the theory that he lured her there. They can't have it both ways.... he couldn't have lured her there with BJ's number AND know it was SA she was meeting.

JMO of course
Click to expand...
Great post!
JMO😉

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BigCityAccountant said:
.
Well, if Weigert's badge number is not 817, then who went over to MTSO at 7:29 pm that day?

attachment.php
Click to expand...

Okay found it... 817 was Dedering's badge number.

And I "think" that was when he went to MTSO (it's in the reports somewhere... that he met with Remiker and Colborn) Together they went to Zipperer's. The dispatch log is really confusing, it looks like they were dispatched from TH's residence, but they aren't.... I "think" that the address just pops in there because it's associated with TH, the missing person. JMO

Looking at that log though.. he got to MTSO at 7:29pm, but they didn't go to GZ's until 9:21, what were they doing in those almost 2 hours? eating donuts?
 
missy1974 said:
Okay found it... 817 was Dedering's badge number.

And I "think" that was when he went to MTSO (it's in the reports somewhere... that he met with Remiker and Colborn) Together they went to Zipperer's. The dispatch log is really confusing, it looks like they were dispatched from TH's residence, but they aren't.... I "think" that the address just pops in there because it's associated with TH, the missing person. JMO

Looking at that log though.. he got to MTSO at 7:29pm, but they didn't go to GZ's until 9:21, what were they doing in those almost 2 hours? eating donuts?
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.
Finding a RAV4????
 
Here are some photo's from KK's book.

http://imgur.com/a/jan9i
http://i.imgur.com/8ZQeo38.jpg
http://imgur.com/M88qH4j
http://imgur.com/udgzRuY <<< missing rubber mat, this is a new photo to us. It appears to be taken from inside the storage container?
http://imgur.com/Hauomfc
http://imgur.com/jgGfsj1
http://imgur.com/R7I6b1I
http://imgur.com/DuqTPqr <<< fragments entwined in steel wires
http://imgur.com/lxlIPhF
http://imgur.com/Bx8ceBF
http://imgur.com/bULkagH
http://imgur.com/F6fJZ9u << very nice picture of Teresa :)
http://imgur.com/Tpzb1J4

The photo of the RAV4 cargo area, with (rubber mat missing).... so does this mean that those of us that thought there was a rubber mat missing back there were right? I have always thought that was the case, and was the reason that blood wasn't on the carpet... and also why the back seats were up... to pull out the mat.

The bones entwined in wire photo. First.... I thought they didn't take photo's? I thought Ertl's reason for not taking photo's was because the scene was obviously altered before he got there? Where did this photo come from? It wasn't introduced in either trial AFAIK. Anyway... regardless of all those questions.... this looks to me like what could be a possible pile of wire... and lets just say I had a bucket of bones ... and I dumped some on top of this wire... the bone would be about right where I see them, some would fall through... some would kinda lay on the top, because they were too big to fall through. Anyone ever use a sifter? the bigger pieces always stay on top... the smaller ones will fall through the holes. JMO

**** KZ liked a tweet that showed a picture of the bone/wire and the person tweeted that it looked like grass.

There is a great photo of TH in there though, I will give him credit for that. But that's it.
 
missy1974 said:
Here are some photo's from KK's book.

http://imgur.com/a/jan9i
http://i.imgur.com/8ZQeo38.jpg
http://imgur.com/M88qH4j
http://imgur.com/udgzRuY <<< missing rubber mat, this is a new photo to us. It appears to be taken from inside the storage container?
http://imgur.com/Hauomfc
http://imgur.com/jgGfsj1
http://imgur.com/R7I6b1I
http://imgur.com/DuqTPqr <<< fragments entwined in steel wires
http://imgur.com/lxlIPhF
http://imgur.com/Bx8ceBF
http://imgur.com/bULkagH
http://imgur.com/F6fJZ9u << very nice picture of Teresa :)
http://imgur.com/Tpzb1J4

The photo of the RAV4 cargo area, with (rubber mat missing).... so does this mean that those of us that thought there was a rubber mat missing back there were right? I have always thought that was the case, and was the reason that blood wasn't on the carpet... and also why the back seats were up... to pull out the mat.

The bones entwined in wire photo. First.... I thought they didn't take photo's? I thought Ertl's reason for not taking photo's was because the scene was obviously altered before he got there? Where did this photo come from? It wasn't introduced in either trial AFAIK. Anyway... regardless of all those questions.... this looks to me like what could be a possible pile of wire... and lets just say I had a bucket of bones ... and I dumped some on top of this wire... the bone would be about right where I see them, some would fall through... some would kinda lay on the top, because they were too big to fall through. Anyone ever use a sifter? the bigger pieces always stay on top... the smaller ones will fall through the holes. JMO

**** KZ liked a tweet that showed a picture of the bone/wire and the person tweeted that it looked like grass.

There is a great photo of TH in there though, I will give him credit for that. But that's it.
Click to expand...
I think you were right all along about the mat, FWIW.
Same goes for how the bones are " intertwined " your theory makes sense.
I don't see where Kratz does.
Then again, there wasn't any forensic evidence to support his press conference version of the crime, either. &#128580;
JMO

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