MO - Four similar homicides on Indian Creek Trail in Kansas City Aug 2016 *arrest*

VictoriaH said:

The 17 you see is the year. He posted month/year.

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Book em', Danno.

Nick_1 said:

Honestly, I hope they are not. That isn't meant to be condescending or negative in any manner. I dug deep into the marital history of victims, as I found one was divorced. Nothing remarkable was found, that I saw. All avenues must be explored as a case progresses and evidence or witnesses lack. This early though, I couldn't see anyway that a man would leave the safety of his apartment for an encounter; only to be shot in the apartment parking lot. I couldn't see why a man would take his two dogs along for some sort of escapade. Not to discount your theory, nothing has been eliminated in the realm of possibilities in my mind, yet.

-Nick

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For all we know it COULD be a woman who dated these men!

VictoriaH said:

Your posts are very informative and makes a person "think".
Of course having experience in the field of LE, you "know" what to think!
I'm curious and wondering your thoughts on this - will putting security cameras make the "killer" move elsewhere?

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I was tired last night, my notes and thoughts were a bit abbrietaved . Nonetheless, thank you for your kind words. As Comissioner Kelly used to say, "Precautions either have or will be occurring. Some of these you will notice, some these you will not." As for the deterrence factor, I'd presume they placed trail style cameras in the wooded or vegetational areas. Heavily dependent on offender type with regards to if he will strike in this area again. The escalation and tight clustering of cases leads me to hypothesize; maybe. I don't think he'll hit the same spots or close to them. The lack of suspect description or vehicle information gives the perpetrator a great amount of anonymity. I am kind of wondering if this, "John Smith," the nice guy who runs on the trail every morning, has a family etc. The victims may not know the man per say, but the trail community from what I know isn't huge. Maybe the victims gave a friendly morning wave to this, "John Smith," every so often. If you see a man in a mask running at you down the trail armed, you're going to run the other way. But what if you saw a guy like, "John Smith," with earbuds in, running shoes and his usual yellow top? Your behavior would remain the same. More on this theory later tonight.

-Nick

VictoriaH said:

The gates DO go all the way around the complex.

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Gates are a lot like gun control. If someone intends to do harm, very little can stop them.

I'll get another analysis up here in a few.

-Nick

My nagging question is why this specific area?
Does the killer live in the apartment and watch the trail and these mens habits?

What is the profile for this killer? Are these his first kill? These appear like very specific targets and organized to some degree.
Are there any other strings of unsolved murders with similar victims?

JMO

Nick_1 said:

Gates are a lot like gun control. If someone intends to do harm, very little can stop them.

I'll get another analysis up here in a few.

-Nick

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Yeah I agree with that, I was just commenting on Snoopsters questioning if the south part was open.
Besides, the main entrance gates are not closed at night anyway.

VictoriaH said:

I live in the complex right where David Lenox and Mike Darby were killed. I didn't know Darby was shot, thank you for the information.
Regardless it's TOO close for comfort and hope this killer is found.
Hopefully websleuth people can help in investigation and stop ANOTHER senseless killing!

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This is very frightening for you. I'm sorry that you are having to experience this so close and personally.
I hope that LE can get this solved quickly!
JMO

WideOpen said:

This is very frightening for you. I'm sorry that you are having to experience this so close and personally.
I hope that LE can get this solved quickly!
JMO

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Thank you! Yes it's VERY disturbing and I'm scared to even take a walk let alone go check out the trails.

I am curious about this one, why has only one of the 4 killings mentioned cause of death?

WideOpen said:

My nagging question is why this specific area?
Does the killer live in the apartment and watch the trail and these mens habits?

What is the profile for this killer? Are these his first kill? These appear like very specific targets and organized to some degree.
Are there any other strings of unsolved murders with similar victims?

JMO

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1) A suspect's arrest can only truly answer this question. You've got two theories (in reality dozens more), with regards to geographical selection in violent, serial crimes.
A) Transistional offender. He or she doesn't want to commit crimes where he or she could easily be noticed to be out of place. *Typically, a person's race, ethnicity, features, habits or characteristics would apply to this selection.* For example, a white offender in a predominantly Hispanic community would be a statistical minority. Basically, perpetrators of crimes have to transistion from their normal community to a different community.
2) Geographically significant offender. No issue with striking near where he or she resides. Maybe they're confident they can quickly escape back to the safe refuge of where they reside. In contrast, the risk of being spotted as you scurry back to your residence increases.

To address your specific question, a suspect residing at these specific apartments looks to be unlikely, I believe. A disheveled offender after committing as heinous of a crime as murder is likely to proceed directly home. Just my thoughts but I would opine that he would be spotted or known. People still in 2017 are hesitant to dial 911, just look at all the victims of abductions that were held for a decade or more. Anything is possible.

Motive? That's tough. These were specific demographic based targets, yes. They weren't socio-economically targeted however, from what I can gather. An example would be just business owners, the first 3 weren't. Another example outside of this case would be be prostitutes, or vulnerable young women who struggle financially. The distinction between targets is of incredible importance, to me. Dependent on demographic or socio-economic status of the victim, you have two totally different types of assailant(s)

Now that I type this I pause, was this question directed at me? Sorry if it wasn't.

The less information to the public with an ongoing, especially wide-open investigation, the better.

Their it is a specific reason lol.

Nick_1 said:

Gates are a lot like gun control. If someone intends to do harm, very little can stop them.

I'll get another analysis up here in a few.

-Nick

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Do you think this is more a random sniper than someone actually confronting or getting up close to the victims??


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(Looks like some great posts here and marking my spot to catch up, half asleep)

Why would it be announced that cameras were being put up on this trail?

While it is a safety device, allegedly, for citizens, it may be a strong deterrent for the killer to go elsewhere. Truthfully, how much security does it really offer the average person on the trail?

A person would need to be sitting at the monitors 24 hours a day and the chances of catching this killer is slim now that he knows about the cameras.

My opinions only.

Nick_1 said:

Honestly, I hope they are not. That isn't meant to be condescending or negative in any manner. I dug deep into the marital history of victims, as I found one was divorced. Nothing remarkable was found, that I saw. All avenues must be explored as a case progresses and evidence or witnesses lack. This early though, I couldn't see anyway that a man would leave the safety of his apartment for an encounter; only to be shot in the apartment parking lot. I couldn't see why a man would take his two dogs along for some sort of escapade. Not to discount your theory, nothing has been eliminated in the realm of possibilities in my mind, yet.

-Nick

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Him being shot in the parking lot certainly does discount that theory, but I don't think the dogs do.

On another note, welcome to WS . And, if you're so inclined, please check out the Missy Bevers threads and the Abigail Williams/LIberty German threads and weigh in about your theories .

TTF14 said:

Him being shot in the parking lot certainly does discount that theory, but I don't think the dogs do.

On another note, welcome to WS . And, if you're so inclined, please check out the Missy Bevers threads and the Abigail Williams/LIberty German threads and weigh in about your theories .

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And Danielle stislicki! we could really use nick's help on that one!


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buckeye05 said:

Kansas City is no stranger to serial killers. There's also:

-Gregory Breeden, who is suspected of being the Independence Ave/Missouri River Killer. Active in the 90s and suspected of killing 10 women.

-Ray Jackson, the Gilham Park Strangler. Killed 6 women in the late 80s and early 90s.

-Gene Raspberry, very little information on him, though he committed 6 murders in KC in the 60s.

-Marc Sappington, the Kansas City Vampire. Killed and cannibalized 4 men in 2001.

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Marc Sappington

Ray Jackson

Gregory Breeden

Yep, nothing on Raspberry.

KC Serial Killers
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Yes, before this I would have thought the area in Minor Park with the shelter, tennis courts, and remote control helicopter field were safe for single moms, kids, and lone hikers. The remote-control helicopter club that flies there is named Eagles Associates. They are the salt of the earth. Whether there's anyone there at any time depends on the wind conditions mostly. As for that shelter, seems like I usually see cars there during daytime hours. I don't think a would-be killer could count on not being observed!

I agree with 1 & 2 & 3 ... why announce the cameras so the killer will go somewhere else?

darkstar105 said:

I agree with 1 & 2 & 3 ... why announce the cameras so the killer will go somewhere else?

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Uh, maybe so the killer won't *kill someone again* on the trail?

I mean the only way to catch him (assuming it's a him) by secretly installing cameras is to get video of him stalking or murdering the next trail victim. I'm not comfortable with random trail-goers being collateral damage and I'm surprised anyone else would be.