WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #5

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I have wondered whether his weight loss was caused by AIDS, and he wandered because he didn't have a home to go to. No way to know, of course, and no more likely than any other speculation...

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I have wondered whether his weight loss was caused by AIDS, and he wandered because he didn't have a home to go to. No way to know, of course, and no more likely than any other speculation...

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I think I read that testing was done, and he wasn't HIV positive. But that information could be wrong. When I was working with homeless kids, they were often an interesting mixture of social and alone, all at the same time. And his choices, his relationship to transient living spaces, really feels in keeping with the kids I knew.

And these kids aren't sex-workers, per se. They basically are surviving by whatever means necessary. So sometimes they panhandle, sometimes they accept a living situation (that might involve sex) in order to have some stability. Sometimes they turn a trick here and there. And there are pimps who will go into hoods where these kids have found cheap places to live, sharing one hotel room, and they will let the kids know when a gig comes up.

It's a very different world, from what those of us who have stable living conditions know.

But, especially, back before everyone had a phone, it was easy for people to just disappear, and you wouldn't know what had happened to them. No way to find out, if they'd cut off ties with family, or vice versa, their family cut off ties with them--there would be no one to contact. And if the kid is a survivor of any kind of abuse at home, they tend not to trust relationships anyway.

Now it might be easier to stay in touch, because anyone can get a burner phone, and stay in contact that way.
 
Medical, law, dental students may travel for temporary work-study placements in a variety of settings and later for employment opportunities.imo, speculation.
These things come to mind, speculation, imo.
Pale skin ( studying), clean, good teeth, pen in pocket, considerate/responsible to hotel ( left note/ paid bill ) knowledge of correct "termination method" (cloth under chin, pillows ect)
 
Medical, law, dental students may travel for temporary work-study placements in a variety of settings and later for employment opportunities.imo, speculation.
These things come to mind, speculation, imo.
Pale skin ( studying), clean, good teeth, pen in pocket, considerate/responsible to hotel ( left note/ paid bill ) knowledge of correct "termination method" (cloth under chin, pillows ect)

I just can't get over the impression that his handwriting has on me. It looks so very much like that of a physician or someone with a science/engineering background.
 
Medical, law, dental students may travel for temporary work-study placements in a variety of settings and later for employment opportunities.imo, speculation.
These things come to mind, speculation, imo.
Pale skin ( studying), clean, good teeth, pen in pocket, considerate/responsible to hotel ( left note/ paid bill ) knowledge of correct "termination method" (cloth under chin, pillows ect)

At most Stevik was probably 30. I personally don't see any indications of a medical degree, or actually all that much education. I'd be surprised if he even finished high school.

Something to know about that time, was that there was a very controversial website, that actually supported suicide, and gave instruction on how to carry it out properly: Karen Spaink's forum.

The method of suicide Lyle uses is one that was discussed in great detail on that site, at the very time of LS's death. Discussed was technique and the importance of practice runs prior to carrying out the act.

The lead detective on the Stevik case mentions her in his analysis of the suicide.
 
Link didn't work for me.....? Is it just me?
Thanks

Thank you for posting this. I've never seen these exact pictures before, so I never noticed that but for the Doc Martins, Lyle is dressed like a Cholo. Baggy pants, baggy t-shirt and plaid shirt. That might also explain the large belt, though I know it looked worn.

His hair even is in the Chicano style--if it were given a little hairspray to hold it in place.

https://www.google.com/search?q=cho...2#tbm=isch&q=cholo+men+&imgrc=-5LvezUIBGAkgM:

https://www.google.com/search?q=cho...&imgdii=O8ej3BCPR5bOAM:&imgrc=crbQJ3rSiNxRnM:

https://www.google.com/search?q=cho...2#tbm=isch&q=cholo+men+&imgrc=crbQJ3rSiNxRnM:


I know there's always been a good chance he was Hispanic, but maybe he was more specifically Chicano.

Or he just liked the look.


It looks like he had a watch on at some point. And lividity seems close to full.

Curious that he left his shoes on. Wonder why.
 
Thank you for posting this. I've never seen these exact pictures before, so I never noticed that but for the Doc Martins, Lyle is dressed like a Cholo. Baggy pants, baggy t-shirt and plaid shirt. That might also explain the large belt, though I know it looked worn.

His hair even is in the Chicano style--if it were given a little hairspray to hold it in place.

https://www.google.com/search?q=cho...2#tbm=isch&q=cholo+men+&imgrc=-5LvezUIBGAkgM:

https://www.google.com/search?q=cho...&imgdii=O8ej3BCPR5bOAM:&imgrc=crbQJ3rSiNxRnM:

https://www.google.com/search?q=cho...2#tbm=isch&q=cholo+men+&imgrc=crbQJ3rSiNxRnM:


I know there's always been a good chance he was Hispanic, but maybe he was more specifically Chicano.

Or he just liked the look.


It looks like he had a watch on at some point. And lividity seems close to full.

Curious that he left his shoes on. Wonder why.

People might think your post is flipped, but I know exactly what you are talking about. I thought the way the hair is combed was more hispanic. I am just wondering if the belt showed signs that it was tightened over time. If a hole was worn then moved to the next, and then to the next, etc.
 
People might think your post is flipped, but I know exactly what you are talking about. I thought the way the hair is combed was more hispanic. I am just wondering if the belt showed signs that it was tightened over time. If a hole was worn then moved to the next, and then to the next, etc.

Detective Youman (the lead detective said that the belt did show signs of having been tightened over time (or loosened).

It's interesting because the pictures I've seen before didn't let you look at the entire outfit. And in the process of trying to imagine what Lyle might have looked like in the outfit in it's entirety, I suddenly realized it reminded me of guys in my neighborhood, back in the late '80s early '90s.

It is a look that you don't see as much anymore.

And what I also notice is that it almost seems like there is a mixed kind of style going on. The baggie T, plaid shirt and baggy jeans look, was almost always worn with tennis shoes.

Doc Martens (what Lyle is wearing; he's got on one of the original boots) was more of a punk, gay and bizarrely, skin head look. (Timberlands were more hip hop, so whether you wore Martens or Tims, kind of said it all---and to be clear, I am looking back 20 years on these syles.)

So it might be that Lyle was just sporting a look that adapted a few styles. But even his hair could so easily be styled for that look.

One other take away, is a Pilot-pen Lyle brought with him, that he placed in his right pants pocket (he was probably right handed-obvious, I guess). That's not a pen you get from a Motel. That's a pen you buy.

So he traveled with a pen? But no comb? No razor for shaving? (or he got rid of the other things, and only kept the pen)

Basically his worldly possessions at the end of the day, came down to a barely used tube of Colgate, an Oral B toothbrush, that still had its box. A handful of small change, and an outfit that might indicate a culture he was a part of, or simply a choice in style.

And Doc Martens. (A little cutting edge then. Trendy, for sure.)

And a blue Pilot-pen, placed neatly in the pocket of his baggy jeans.

He liked that pen.
 
I just re-read the report on Lyle's clothing. It reports the boots were Timberlands, not Martens---but they really look more like Doc Martens to me.
 
Throwing pasta here, largely based on these photos-- http://imgur.com/a/2XEV9/all:

Now that I've seen the photos from the scene of Lyle's death, a whole slew of new possibilities as to who he might be, opened up. Plus the Isotope testing does indicate that Lyle may have been from regions where large hispanic populations reside: Arizona, California, New Mexico and Texas. And in all these regions Mexican-Americans are a very dominant part of those populations.

Lyle looks as if he may have a blend of a number of ethnicities in his background, but Latino and Native (and by native, this could be tribes in Mexico, not necessarily in the States) seem apparent in his face. He may also have some Anglo heritage as well, but the way he was dressed makes me wonder if he didn't relate more to his Mexican heritage (if he had this heritage). Or if he was influenced by the styles worn by friends where he grew up (and again, for the younger people on this forum, I'm referencing styles from almost 20 years ago--dress and style have changed since then).

I think that there are "facts" presented in this case that may really have pointed in the complete wrong direction as to who this man was. I really wonder if the idea that he spoke with a Canadian accent is just plain wrong. And the name Lyle Stevik also threw things off a better lead, because it sounds European, or Anglo, but maybe it was an anagram.

Maybe his name was Steve Kyle, or Kyle Stevens, or he was putting two names together, or there is a personal joke or irony in the re-ordering of the name...

It may be just coincidence that there was someone with the name Lyle Stevik in an obscure novel by Joyce Carol Oates--and the Lyle here, just happened to invent a similar name. (How did JCO come up with that name, for example? She's a novelist. So she too, probably made the name up.)


I'm beginning to think that LS either has Mexican heritage, or identified with this culture because he grew up in it. That he was never from Canada. And that his name may be found within the letters of the name he used. It's also possible that he was born and initially raised in Mexico. And there are tall, light skinned Mexicans. They have more European than Native heritage.

Again, just throwing out ideas. Seeing what sticks.
 
I don't know if this video has already been posted. It came out April 2017. This guy is great. He breaks down and analyzes cold cases in great detail. The video is 45 minutes long...

[video=youtube;p7yeDiSY8t4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7yeDiSY8t4[/video]
 
I don't know if this video has already been posted. It came out April 2017. This guy is great. He breaks down and analyzes cold cases in great detail. The video is 45 minutes long...

[video=youtube;p7yeDiSY8t4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7yeDiSY8t4[/video]

Excellent presentation. If only people like Lyle could get this kind of attention, BEFORE, they decide life isn't worth the trouble.

Some thoughts though:

--I think it's very possible that Lyle had been to this motel before. Knew they didn't require ID. Everything else about his actions feels quietly organized and planned, I think there's a good chance he would have planned out this piece, as well.

--The marks on his knuckles could very well have occurred as he shoved the pillows into place on either side of the rack. If you've ever tried to shove objects into a tight corner like that, you've gotten the same types of knuckle-cuts. It's happened to me. Because your fingers are slightly bent, so the knuckles, where there is bone, get the punishment. These marks are on both hands, with no obvious bruising. So the only part of his hand that appears hurt, are the knuckles or boney points.

--I suspect the reason he added the pillows was to strengthen the rack. I would guess that he tested the rack pretty carefully to make sure it could hold his weight as he flailed. If you don't get a suspension hanging right, you could end up still alive and in really bad, bad pain and injury for the rest of your life. So you don't want the apparatus you are using to give way. The pillows would have decreased the friction for the rack, they would have secured it.

--Everyone is going to see what they personally know, when they look at clothing, etc. I looked hard at Timberlands, circa 2000 and earlier, none looked like Lyle's footwear. I truly believe he's wearing Docs. Which might sound like it has no meaning, but having been around a lot of people who are versed in street-fashion, depending on where you are from, and what look you are aiming for--there's a big difference in those boots. Just like there is a difference between Nikes, Converse and Air Jordans. For someone Lyle's age, I think his choice spoke. And I do believe his choice was Doc Martens.

--I also have to really wonder if he recently lost weight or if in fact, he just needed a large belt for what he was going to do, and probably bought one second hand. Imagine trying to hang yourself, if you are 6 foot tall, with a belt that would have actually fit this slender young man. I suspect his clothes are baggy, because that was the style.

Again, just throwing the wet pasta on the wall to see if anything sticks.
 
Just posting this piece on young people and homelessness to add to the possibilities of who Lyle might have been, and how he may have lived. Not all homelessness is evident in how someone looks. And in the case of someone like Lyle, he may well have found places to call home, but places where he never had to pay rent, or establish credit, or work, or have his name on any utility bill.

If he was a resourceful runaway, he may have been able to be clean and well groomed, have clothes, etc. and yet still be off the grid most of us accept as a norm. It's really possible that one day he came back to what he thought was a "home" to find his clothes on the porch and the locks changed (I do know someone this happened to.)

https://www.thehopeline.com/7-things-to-do-if-you-are-homeless-and-couch-hopping
 
I know I'm kind of chatting with myself here, but hopefully this will spark an interest in someone who reads this later...

So far trying to identify Lyle by way of his name, or the Best Western he memorized the address of, or myriad of posts and articles about him, or even exhaustive searches through missing person's reports https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fat50H8N_Yn-Ndqh80FLP3YzK_-JCT70LgxsfU6jYUY/htmlview#, hasn't resulted in much.

What if we tried to find out more about him, by way of his shoes?

When I look at the pics of him here http://imgur.com/a/2XEV9/all , one of the most peculiar things to me is that he kept his boots on for this last moment. And his boots look worn enough, that he probably had them for awhile. Docs last forever. I got my first pair in 1998, and I had those suckers for over 15 years, and when I finally got rid of them, the heels were still barely worn.

If they are Doc Martens, and not Timberlands (which I'm pretty certain I'm right about--I actually found an identical pair to Lyle's on E-Bay), then they might have been manufactured when Docs were still made exclusively in England, and I wonder if there is a record of distributors used in the states, and if these distributors might still have data on where certain shipments went.

Someone expert in Docs might even be able to tell by way of the stitch and style when and where these boots were likely sold here in the states.

Maybe....

That is, if the boots are still around and weren't destroyed.
 
There was a grunge version of the Timberland boot (it was a moc toe or walking/hiking boot). Who knew? And Lyle's boots are probably circa early 1990s. He could have had those boots for a decade when he died. The soles are really worn, as is the leather--but that was also the style. And the boots must have been comfortable if he chose to wear them when he died. (no socks...)

The pen in his pocket is likely a uniball not a pilot. And though the outfit resembles that of a low-rider, it was probably a "Seattle-grunge" ensemble. I'd forgotten that there was flannel plaid-shirt craze in the ''90s. Everyone from low-riders, to yuppies, to grundgesters were wearing plaid flannel shirts. I wish I'd owned stock.

I wish, wish, wish that Lyle's outfit had been posted all on its own, next to his missing person's report, because the verbal description of what he wore conjured a very different image than the actual clothing.

So the boots ARE Timberland. The logo is evident on closer examination. But they were not a common pair of Timberlands. The sole is very distinctive. And if he had those boots for a long time, someone might remember the boots and the habit of placing a uniball or other type of pen in his pocket (also an indicator that he may have not had a secure living situation).

If like Grateful Doe, no one is looking for this guy, which really seems likely, then his shoes may be an important clue.

Those boots may not have done that well. I've never seen any exactly like them, before--in Timberland. The Timberlands that became super popular were very different than Lyle's boots, and Lyle's version may have been sold in a specific region, to a specific market.

But the entire outfit might be recognized. The way Lyle looks in the Doe pics, he appears very straight-laced, but that's not the story his clothes are telling. No matter how clean they are.

His style may really be as telling as Grateful Doe's was for him--only no one could see it, because we never really got to see the outfit before.

And that pen! I love uniballs too. And if you don't have much money, the 1.29 that they cost, might make them kind of special.
 
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I can't say he dressed like a cholo at all and for the most part cholo's never wore Temberlands.. East coast Latinos wore them and it was an east coast style for the most part that drifted over in time (It was more a specific version of them also) .. His belt is also not a cholo style and more preppy. When someone 'sags' they tend to use 2 or so spots on their belts but not all. The way his clothes are baggy also don't fit the style and are a more suburban look than any urban style. IF and a big if this guy was from the west coast Chicano culture I would say he was more migrant worker.

In my opinion he was most likely just going for a nondescript suburban look.. Average Joe in the crowd. Too clean for grunge, no tan or rough hands from migrant work.

:Edit: The way he wore his plaid shirt could tell us more about his style and personality. Unbotton and opened? More casual, laid back guy.. Buttoned up and tucked in? More suburban, serious type of guy.
 
I can't say he dressed like a cholo at all and for the most part cholo's never wore Temberlands.. East coast Latinos wore them and it was an east coast style for the most part that drifted over in time (It was more a specific version of them also) .. His belt is also not a cholo style and more preppy. When someone 'sags' they tend to use 2 or so spots on their belts but not all. The way his clothes are baggy also don't fit the style and are a more suburban look than any urban style. IF and a big if this guy was from the west coast Chicano culture I would say he was more migrant worker.

In my opinion he was most likely just going for a nondescript suburban look.. Average Joe in the crowd. Too clean for grunge, no tan or rough hands from migrant work.

:Edit: The way he wore his plaid shirt could tell us more about his style and personality. Unbotton and opened? More casual, laid back guy.. Buttoned up and tucked in? More suburban, serious type of guy.

Nothing about him says cholo to me, but that's JMO. The pics linked earlier of "cholos" (is that an offensive word? It feels weird to say for some reason) are all bald and heavily tatted.

I can only speak for the boroughs of NYC as well as the suburbs of NJ, but Timbs were HUGELY popular in the early 2000s.
 
I can't say he dressed like a cholo at all and for the most part cholo's never wore Temberlands.. East coast Latinos wore them and it was an east coast style for the most part that drifted over in time (It was more a specific version of them also) .. His belt is also not a cholo style and more preppy. When someone 'sags' they tend to use 2 or so spots on their belts but not all. The way his clothes are baggy also don't fit the style and are a more suburban look than any urban style. IF and a big if this guy was from the west coast Chicano culture I would say he was more migrant worker.

In my opinion he was most likely just going for a nondescript suburban look.. Average Joe in the crowd. Too clean for grunge, no tan or rough hands from migrant work.

:Edit: The way he wore his plaid shirt could tell us more about his style and personality. Unbotton and opened? More casual, laid back guy.. Buttoned up and tucked in? More suburban, serious type of guy.

I agree. The shoes are kind of the deciding factor for me as to what the overall ensemble might indicate--in terms of a "sought-after-style"--as opposed to truly living the look-if that makes sense...

The low-rider look from East LA., and other places around the country (I lived in areas, both on the West and East coast where variations on this style were sported), is also all about the tennis shoes--and those were usually a big part of the overall ensemble.

But this doesn't mean that someone might not take bits and pieces of that style and weave it into their own look.

The Timberlands Lyle is wearing, when I could find similar ones on Ebay in their vintage sales, have a distinct grunge-look element, though. They were hipster-grunge, and the more worn the look, apparently the better.

And where was that look most popular in the '90s?

Seattle!

And Lyle died about an hour out of Seattle.

I keep wondering what leads might have been developed if the boots had been seen way back then.

Lyle could easily have aspired to be a part of the grunge scene, in some form or fashion. Maybe that's why he kept a pen in pocket--in case song lyrics popped into his head... Who knows?

But the fact that he coifed a bit, cared how his hair looked--that his appearance seems to have been important to him (so much so that he basically kept the look to the very end) might mean that his look was as deliberate, as most of his final actions appear to be. If that's the case, the look he was going for, could be telling.

We can't know what dreams might draw a person like Lyle to a given location--but the boots indicate that he may have been trying to fit into the grunge look that was popular in that region, at that time. He may not have been truly part of that scene, only influenced by it. And my memory of Grunge (though admittedly, it was not my scene) is that it wasn't heavily tattoo oriented. Herion-chic was more the sought after affect--so being super skinny, kind of went with the look. And of course, heroin was in fact a central part of that scene for many. So if Lyle didn't like doing drugs, maybe he found a way to attain the look, anyway.

I'm a contemporary of Lyle's and I remember the fashion of that time. It was fun and cheap. Nothing Lyle is wearing couldn't have been found on the cheap. It's not an expensive ensemble, except for the shoes.

I wasn't punk, but I liked the some aspects of the punk look, so I used them. I only recently got rid of my Doc Martens from that period. I have a friend who still has her purple Docs in storage.

The other reason to focus on those boots, though, is that from the internet searches I made, they appear to have been a one-off. I couldn't find any Timberlands with those soles. The top part of the boot yes--but even there, this boot is not what Timberland is known for. There might not have been all that many made, and they may only have sold in a specific region. They are unusual enough, that they might hold some tangible leads, in and unto themselves. And if Lyle was emulating a Seattle grunge/hipster look, that could be telling as well.

Just trying to narrow the regions he might be remembered from.

Those boots were well, well worn---he either bought them second hand, or he wore them a lot and may have owned them for almost a decade.
 
I have never understood why anyone thinks Lyle either came from money or was well off, or a professional. That assessment only made sense for a minute.

To be a professional, in any field, requires a lot of education and contact with others. Even a shy person would be remembered, by someone, by now. It's 16 years later and this case has gotten a good bit of attention. If this guy went to med school, someone would remember him. And a professional does not have the address to a cheap motel memorized. You only memorize an address if you use it. Lyle had that address spot on. He had to have relied on it, at some point.

I had braces. My parents were broke. They took me to the dental school to have them done. My brother had serious surgery at one point, we went to the hospital that took the state provided insurance my parents had.

This idea that because someone is clean, they can't be homeless, is utter nonsense.

I do wonder if on this case, more hasn't been discovered because general bias has stood in the way of really seeing this kid.

I look at those boots, and he's such a kid. I even wonder if he was 20.
 
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