Identified! TX - Huntsville, 'Walker County Jane Doe', WhtFem 14-16, 91UFTX, Nov'80 Sherry Ann Jarvis

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Peppered_peach said:
From what I gather from your youtube video of the dump site, I-45 is a well traveled road in the daytime. Is this true for night time traffic as well?

Do they think the truck was moving when she was dumped?

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IMO it seems difficult to keep the truck on the road, open the door and throw a 110-120lb girl out the door without help.
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Probably not. The truck had probably pulled to the side.

Peppered_peach said:
From what I gather from your youtube video of the dump site, I-45 is a well traveled road in the daytime. Is this true for night time traffic as well?
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Yes. I-45 is a major thoroughfare that connects Houston to Dallas. There is traffic at all times of the day and night.
 
Nancy Drew RN said:
If I'm remembering the photos of the scene, the culvert appeared quite a ways below the level of the road. I believe with some effort she could've potentially been thrown down from the road itself, with momentum causing her to roll slightly from where she initially hit. My concern about the potential of throwing from a semi is that I think it would be very awkward to maneuver and balance while picking up and throwing even a small girl/woman--I think you would be likely to lose your balance and fall yourself, or not have enough room to swing her out. Disclaimer: I've not been in a semi and don't really know how much room there would be for the mechanics of this. It would be helpful to know if other trucker killers had done so successfully.
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The mechanics are even more implausible if from an ordinary vehicle. There is more space in front of the passenger seat for the driver to stand while throwing her.

And this scenario as they describe it would also make it unlikely that she was in the culvert. She was probably in the grass above it, because one would have to throw a body pretty hard for it to tumble down the hill that far into the culvert.
 
CarlK90245 said:
The mechanics are even more implausible if from an ordinary vehicle. There is more space in front of the passenger seat for the driver to stand while throwing her.

And this scenario as they describe it would also make it unlikely that she was in the culvert. She was probably in the grass above it, because one would have to throw a body pretty hard for it to tumble down the hill that far into the culvert.
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Is it possible to throw her out of the back of a pickup truck? If there were a couple of people assisting?
 
CarlK90245 said:
Probably not. The truck had probably pulled to the side.



Yes. I-45 is a major thoroughfare that connects Houston to Dallas. There is traffic at all times of the day and night.
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Since there seemed to be enough media exposure to have people come forward to identify her, I find it mind boggling that no one saw a big rig pulled off in that location, and didn't come forward. Such a sad case.
 
I think you are overestimating the media coverage. No world wide web in 1980, no social media. Even the television news wouldn't be that interested compared to even a few years later.
 
LucyOso said:
Is it possible to throw her out of the back of a pickup truck? If there were a couple of people assisting?
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Yes, it’s possible, but if she was picked up by a gang of hooligans and gang raped and strangled (e.g., Google “Janet Chandler” and “Blue Mill Inn”), there would have been semen from multiple assailants.

And I still go back to my original point. If you kill someone in town (or in the outskirts between Huntsville and the prison), why choose a very busy interstate highway as your dumping ground? To a trucker, that is the simplest option. To a gang of hooligans (and perhaps their female instigators a la the JChandler case), that isn’t the simplest option.
 
paul1980 said:
I think you are overestimating the media coverage. No world wide web in 1980, no social media. Even the television news wouldn't be that interested compared to even a few years later.
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Huntsville’s population today is around 40,000, I’m sure it’s grown since the 80s, as most towns do. I’m not saying that it was a statewide media frenzy or anything, but I’m sure for a smaller town ( I live in one with a similar population) that it was covered enough, especially if people came forward to identify her.

I just think that if it was covered that much, that someone would possible remember seeing something like a big rig in the area she was found. But clearly no one came forward if that’s the case. I just find that interesting.

All in all I do think it was a truck driver though. Makes the most sense as Carl K stated above.
 
Peppered_peach said:
I just think that if it was covered that much, that someone would possible remember seeing something like a big rig in the area she was found.
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A big rig pulled to the side of an interstate highway late at night does not draw that much attention. I see that quite often, and don't think much of it. And the passing motorists have no visibility of what is going on at the passenger side of the truck.
 
CarlK90245 said:
Yes, it’s possible, but if she was picked up by a gang of hooligans and gang raped and strangled (e.g., Google “Janet Chandler” and “Blue Mill Inn”), there would have been semen from multiple assailants.

And I still go back to my original point. If you kill someone in town (or in the outskirts between Huntsville and the prison), why choose a very busy interstate highway as your dumping ground? To a trucker, that is the simplest option. To a gang of hooligans (and perhaps their female instigators a la the JChandler case), that isn’t the simplest option.
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Thanks CarlK. I am just wondering if she did indeed go into a home or apartment. Let's say she was walking, some one offered her a ride but needed to "go home first". Or a group of hooligans invited her in with the promise of a ride to the destination. Or she made her way outside of town. Was taken to a farm or abandoned farmstead. Then the freeway would be a likely place.

As for semen, honestly we don't know the interaction. She could have even declared she had an STI/pregnant with the hopes to avoid sexual contact and instead was assaulted for being "filthy" etc. She could have, as many women have been advised to urinate on herself. And condoms could have been used prior to the object attack.

As for dumping on a major interstate...the person wanted her found. Guilt. To make it look like a trucker, etc. The reality is, these people could have been in the area for a party or something and dumped her on the way home?

Just some thoughts.
 
CarlK90245 said:
A big rig pulled to the side of an interstate highway late at night does not draw that much attention. I see that quite often, and don't think much of it. And the passing motorists have no visibility of what is going on at the passenger side of the truck.
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I guess the only reason I pay attention to them is because of the move over law ( I’m in Colorado not Texas) which I know wasn’t a thing in the 80’s. If you’re not familiar, pretty much if you see anything on the side of the road, pedestrians, bicycles, cars, emergency vehicles, etc, you move over to the other lane.
 
Peppered_peach said:
Since there seemed to be enough media exposure to have people come forward to identify her, I find it mind boggling that no one saw a big rig pulled off in that location, and didn't come forward. Such a sad case.
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There probably just weren't very many cars that even passed by, though, and since it's a major thoroughfare, there's no guarantee that any of the ones who did were local and even heard about it in a timely manner.

If the killer was a trucker, he probably pulled over, waited until there was a gap in traffic, then threw her from the cab. Even if a few cars passed by between him stopping and pulling away again, it's a truck on the side of the road at 3 or 4 AM- you're tired, and you've seen that sort of thing a thousand times. By the time you're another mile up the road, you've already forgotten about it.
 
big rigs pull over to sleep along highways. its not an unusual sight at all.

Peppered_peach said:
Since there seemed to be enough media exposure to have people come forward to identify her, I find it mind boggling that no one saw a big rig pulled off in that location, and didn't come forward. Such a sad case.
Click to expand...
 
Peppered_peach said:
Since there seemed to be enough media exposure to have people come forward to identify her, I find it mind boggling that no one saw a big rig pulled off in that location, and didn't come forward. Such a sad case.
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Others have already explained that a big rig pulled over on the side of a highway isn't unusual.

We also have to remember that no one knew a crime was being committed at the time. The average person is not on the lookout for suspicious activities every moment of their lives. I've seen such expectations in other cases and it isn't realistic or helpful.
 
Vital Forces said:
Others have already explained that a big rig pulled over on the side of a highway isn't unusual.

We also have to remember that no one knew a crime was being committed at the time. The average person is not on the lookout for suspicious activities every moment of their lives. I've seen such expectations in other cases and it isn't realistic or helpful.
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BBM. Can you explain this please? Thank you.
 
VF is right. Also how many American Rambos who claim they'd save a woman from a rapist/killer turn into [p-slur] when faced with an actual attack on a girl or woman?
 
LucyOso said:
BBM. Can you explain this please? Thank you.
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Of course. It's about hindsight and our after-the-fact biases.

After a crime has been committed, there are some (not all) people who believe that potential witnesses must have seen something or should have been more vigilant.

No one knows that a crime is being committed when it happens except the criminal and victim. Unless the crime is very ostentatious and obvious.

We can't assume that any given person in Huntsville that night must have been anything because no one knew to look for her or for any strange activity when the events took place.

In summary, bystanders don't know when a crime is being committed so they don't know to be on the lookout. That's with any case. No one is constantly on the lookout and it isn't helpful to act like people are making constant mental records of everything just in case later it might be helpful.
 
Vital Forces said:
Of course. It's about hindsight and our after-the-fact biases.

After a crime has been committed, there are some (not all) people who believe that potential witnesses must have seen something or should have been more vigilant.

No one knows that a crime is being committed when it happens except the criminal and victim. Unless the crime is very ostentatious and obvious.

We can't assume that any given person in Huntsville that night must have been anything because no one knew to look for her or for any strange activity when the events took place.

In summary, bystanders don't know when a crime is being committed so they don't know to be on the lookout. That's with any case. No one is constantly on the lookout and it isn't helpful to act like people are making constant mental records of everything just in case later it might be helpful.
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I must be the exception because I'm suspicious of everything that just doesn't seem or look right. Normal, everyday things not so much, but like the old lady who walks by my house everyday then one day turns down the tote road across the street, I wrote down the date in case she turned up missing cuz that wasn't usual for her.
 
Vital Forces said:
Of course. It's about hindsight and our after-the-fact biases.

After a crime has been committed, there are some (not all) people who believe that potential witnesses must have seen something or should have been more vigilant.

No one knows that a crime is being committed when it happens except the criminal and victim. Unless the crime is very ostentatious and obvious.

We can't assume that any given person in Huntsville that night must have been anything because no one knew to look for her or for any strange activity when the events took place.

In summary, bystanders don't know when a crime is being committed so they don't know to be on the lookout. That's with any case. No one is constantly on the lookout and it isn't helpful to act like people are making constant mental records of everything just in case later it might be helpful.
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Vital Force, I agree with your behavioural theory ideas, I understand diffusion of responsibility, bystander effect, situational awareness, etc, etc, etc. Yes, motorists might not have notice or recalled seeing something such as a big rig parked on the side of the road. Thats in itself is a norm. Coupled with it being Halloween, motorists where more likely to focus on the road and children darting into their path. To expect situational awareness from all of society at any given time, is certainly a tall order. Not to mention the linear time elapsed since this crime. I get you on that.

However, I disagree with you stating someone's ideas, question, or input is not helpful. Websleuths is a place where all can share ideas, lament, express sadness, frustration, and all get respectful constructive feedback or if disagreed with no comment at all. This isn't about one persons ideas, knowledge base, educational attainment, opinion, or superiority. It is about collectively brain storming to help identify these victims. And some theories are off the wall but can lead to new ideas. We all must work together. And we must all understand there are language and cultural differences and be respectful. Respectfully, IMOO stating twice that someone's input is not helpful is not what Webslueths is about.
 
Alleykins said:
I must be the exception because I'm suspicious of everything that just doesn't seem or look right. Normal, everyday things not so much, but like the old lady who walks by my house everyday then one day turns down the tote road across the street, I wrote down the date in case she turned up missing cuz that wasn't usual for her.
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Me too. I am a constant scanner. LOL
 
Vital Forces said:
In summary, bystanders don't know when a crime is being committed so they don't know to be on the lookout. That's with any case. No one is constantly on the lookout and it isn't helpful to act like people are making constant mental records of everything just in case later it might be helpful.
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I agree that most people don't notice, and it is unreasonable to expect people to notice everything. However, To say it "isn't helpful" is taking it too far.

People remember mundane events all the time, especially if asked within a day or two of the event. If someone was to ask me if I remember the person in the car in front of me while I was filling my gas tank this morning, I would probably be able to remember simple details. If asked to describe the guy sitting next to me at the coffee shop counter while I was eating breakfast this morning, or even the person sitting next to me while I was having dinner a couple of days ago, I probably could. Last month, probably not. Do I remember seeing a person standing on a specific street corner while I drove by this morning? No. But perhaps I would have if the person was behaving unusually.

Should we expect people to notice mundane events? No. But sometimes people do notice mundane events. And it is not un-helpful to ask if someone noticed something.
 
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