Missouri - The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #7

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MooseMeMuch said:
"Cox has said that he won't reveal where the bodies are buried while his mother (adoptee mother) is alive. I can also state that a now deceased friend who patronized the same salon as his mother overheard her speaking about the case and my recollection is that she said the same thing."

I am familiar with the family and no, she would never discuss something so painfully personal to a hairdresser. Logically, that does not even make sense, unless the parent is an idiot. That would be a parent supplying the rope. :facepalm:
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All I am stating is what he has publically stated and what his mother purportedly stated. Perhaps she didn’t really know or merely repeating what she had read he had said. She had to know of his sordid history and considered he might have done it.

I see nothing that could be produced that would eliminate him as a suspect.

The other two known suspects, Carnahan cannot be eliminated either and Garrison is said to have an ironclad alibi. Having spoken to both the only one I would consider as a possible would be Carnahan. I saw him many times at my POE where he was checking on his alibi witness in the Johns murder. I also worked with his wife for several years and if he did it it never leaked out.

Problem is that we are running out of suspects.
 
Missouri Mule said:
All I am stating is what he has publically stated and what his mother purportedly stated. Perhaps she didn’t really know or merely repeating what she had read he had said. She had to know of his sordid history and considered he might have done it.

I see nothing that could be produced that would eliminate him as a suspect.

The other two known suspects, Carnahan cannot be eliminated either and Garrison is said to have an ironclad alibi. Having spoken to both the only one I would consider as a possible would be Carnahan. I saw him many times at my POE where he was checking on his alibi witness in the Johns murder. I also worked with his wife for several years and if he did it it never leaked out.

Problem is that we are running out of suspects.
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Show me where he stated what you're stating about 'confessing when mom is gone.' I also read it somewhere on the internet BUT it didn't state WHO (really) said it but people inferred it was Cox. I may have to dig that up....hmmm

And where was Garrison that whole wknd? What was his 'ironclad' alibi? I'm totally intrigued.
And it would be difficult for Cox to get an 'ironclad' alibi b/c LE agencies are skeptical concerning a parent's testimony.
Let's play the What If game...
What if, Cox did go to church that morning BUT not with her? She'd 'have to' recant or she'd purger herself. I think SPD is with-holding all of the info. Same with Garrison, why can't we ALL know his 'ironclad' alibi? Why just Cox's gf's 'recanting'?
Has anyone thought of that? Maybe it's 'mincing words' but LE would use it anyway they wanted to.

I was told by a person related, to Jackie Johns, that LE does not believe Carnahan did this.

You're right, we are running out of suspects.
 
MooseMeMuch said:
Show me where he stated what you're stating about 'confessing when mom is gone.' I also read it somewhere on the internet BUT it didn't state WHO (really) said it but people inferred it was Cox. I may have to dig that up....hmmm

And where was Garrison that whole wknd? What was his 'ironclad' alibi? I'm totally intrigued.
And it would be difficult for Cox to get an 'ironclad' alibi b/c LE agencies are skeptical concerning a parent's testimony.
Let's play the What If game...
What if, Cox did go to church that morning BUT not with her? She'd 'have to' recant or she'd purger herself. I think SPD is with-holding all of the info. Same with Garrison, why can't we ALL know his 'ironclad' alibi? Why just Cox's gf's 'recanting'?
Has anyone thought of that? Maybe it's 'mincing words' but LE would use it anyway they wanted to.

I was told by a person related, to Jackie Johns, that LE does not believe Carnahan did this.

You're right, we are running out of suspects.
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I don’t recall him saying he would “confess.” Whatever he knows he won’t reveal until his mother passes. That is my best recollection.

As to Garrison, and I don’t know the actual source, is said that he could not have done it. The source. a male, was with him I believe. I can check further but nothing leads me to believe he was involved. During our brief discussion he also said the other two of the “Grand Jury Three” had nothing to do with it either. I tend to believe he knows the facts. He in no way came across to me as threatening. I wouldn’t have a problem being in his company should the opportunity arise. I believe he is hopeful of gaining eventual release. I believe he is now 59 years old. Contrary to published accounts, his sentences run concurrently. He could potentially be paroled.

As to Cox, nothing about him is trustworthy. I believe he is a killer with no guilt; a true psychopath. Hopefully he should never get out. 2025 is the first time he will be eligible.

On Carnahan I was in his company on the office elevator and was introduced to him by his then wife who I knew for many years. During that time nothing ever leaked out that he did it although everyone believed he was a vicious killer. My understanding he is in poor health and likely die in prison.

My suspects would be Cox, a cop or a fake cop, or a lone stalker.

Two police officers have stated it could have been a cop. If they can think that is a possibility I would regard it as entirely plausible.

There is another obvious suspect but I will not discuss him.

I do not regard the friends of the girls as being involved.
 
Missouri Mule said:
I don’t recall him saying he would “confess.” Whatever he knows he won’t reveal until his mother passes. That is my best recollection.

As to Garrison, and I don’t know the actual source, is said that he could not have done it. The source. a male, was with him I believe. I can check further but nothing leads me to believe he was involved. During our brief discussion he also said the other two of the “Grand Jury Three” had nothing to do with it either. I tend to believe he knows the facts. He in no way came across to me as threatening. I wouldn’t have a problem being in his company should the opportunity arise. I believe he is hopeful of gaining eventual release. I believe he is now 59 years old. Contrary to published accounts, his sentences run concurrently. He could potentially be paroled.

As to Cox, nothing about him is trustworthy. I believe he is a killer with no guilt; a true psychopath. Hopefully he should never get out. 2025 is the first time he will be eligible.

On Carnahan I was in his company on the office elevator and was introduced to him by his then wife who I knew for many years. During that time nothing ever leaked out that he did it although everyone believed he was a vicious killer. My understanding he is in poor health and likely die in prison.

My suspects would be Cox, a cop or a fake cop, or a lone stalker.

Two police officers have stated it could have been a cop. If they can think that is a possibility I would regard it as entirely plausible.

There is another obvious suspect but I will not discuss him.

I do not regard the friends of the girls as being involved.
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What made Garrison a person of interest?


Was SPD acquainted with Garrison before the 3 women disappeared? I do believe so.
 
MooseMeMuch said:
What made Garrison a person of interest?


Was SPD acquainted with Garrison before the 3 women disappeared? I do believe so.
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I don’t know the actual reason. I would speculate that the police tried early on to cast a wide net to include former convicts.

I believe he had connections with Rogersville where the well known crime family were based. He and the other two were housed at the Eldorado, Kansas prison. All were on the street at the time the women went missing.

He also was, I believe, involved with the Galloping Goose motorcycle group. They were also investigated and not believed involved.

It appears that the investigation was not focused and not properly supervised.

There is a fuzzy timeline and a poorly explained narrative as to what happened.

If the case was presented to the grand jury and it quickly was dismissed it suggests that the police had learned little of substance over two decades.
s
It also did not please the prosecution office as both past and future prosecutors found it lacking. The last one was openly critical of the investigation and supervision. At one time in the late 1990’s he asked that the George’s matter be looked at again. The indication was that very little had been accomplished in over two decades. We are left to wonder and are frustrated by the “on-going” investigation explanations and no real answers.

The case was also looked at by other police agencies and yielded little results.

Ultimately it will require someone outside the police force to take the case apart to get at the answers. We have had some books written, several television programs broadcast and still no answers. Most have been superficial at best.

Getting back to Garrison, I have seen nothing to convince me that he was involved. If he and Carnahan can be ruled out we are back to Cox and an unnamed suspect. If they were not involved, the SPD has to be looked at again.
 
Cox was not known by the SPD, unlike Carnahan and Garrison and the 3 grave diggers whom SPD was very familiar with, until they were told about him. As in, Cox was not stopped by SPD for anything, not even for a traffic ticket.

How soon was Garrison on SPD's radar?
 
MooseMeMuch said:
Cox was not known by the SPD, unlike Carnahan and Garrison and the 3 grave diggers whom SPD was very familiar with, until they were told about him. As in, Cox was not stopped by SPD for anything, not even for a traffic ticket.

How soon was Garrison on SPD's radar?
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Very soon. On another site it was stated many the police showed up at an apartment looking for him and another individual well known to LE. They openly said they were looking for him regarding the missing women and it was not about drugs which evidently was known to be there. I don’t have the precise timeline but I can probably get it.

As to Cox it. Is my understanding that as soon as the Zellers family became aware of the missing women contact was made to be on the lookout for Cox.

This is one of my gripes about the case and it is the fuzzy timeline of what happened and who was being investigated.

it is my understanding that Garrison did own a van and it was the subject of the grand jury questioning according to one of the people being questioned.

Several people familiar with the case are doubtful a van was even used. It does seem odd that a similar van was parked across the street where an individual in his late twenties was keeping track of the coming and going of the occupant as allegedly reported by one or more of the employees who worked in the office building. The driver would walk about smoking and was there for no known reason. After the women went missing the van and driver were never seen again. It is as though it was intentionally there to be seen. Some believe it was a decoy to draw attention to it.

The only thing I can say for a certainty is that Garrison is said to have an alibi that cannot be disproven. On the other hand Cox doesn’t.
 
As far as we know Stacy tried to struggle and resist to the perps ,it seems she was dragged from the house so I think if one perp or 2 had to catch stacy and restrained her then someone else had to keep his eyes on Suzie and Sherrill ( or just Suzie .. maybe Sherrill was already dead), this is why I think there were more than1 perp ,If sherrill was the only target they could easily take her before suzie and stacy came back but it looks like they were waiting also for suzie to come home, maybe they knew that if only Sherrill will be kidnapped then suzie will know why and what is the motive so they had to take them both, so I think both Suzie and Sherrill were the target/ Stacy was just there in the wrong time .

I don't think it was a coincidence that the kidnapping happened a week before Suzie's testimony, it's like someone from higher criminal "league" ordered the kidnapping and the murder, it was very important to the mastermind behind this heinous crime that they will totally disappear.
 
MooseMeMuch said:
Just finished a very interesting book concerning the 3W......the author used known 'facts' about the case and the characters surrounding it, possibly related to drugs and a naive Susie :(
It's a logical sequence of events that could have lead up to their abduction and lets face it, after so many years, they most likely perished at the hands of their captors. The author also gives a logical reason for the 25 years of silence.
It was written in 2015.
I highly recommend everyone to read it.

"The Missing Three: The story of the three missing women from Springfield, Missouri"
by David J. Warren

I found it on Amazon.

He does not mention Larry D. Hall in the book.
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Thanks for sharing MooseMeMuch.

I am curious to know if some theories in the book are similar to my theory in post 809.
 
Blue Girl1991 said:
As far as we know Stacy tried to struggle and resist to the perps ,it seems she was dragged from the house so I think if one perp or 2 had to catch stacy and restrained her then someone else had to keep his eyes on Suzie and Sherrill ( or just Suzie .. maybe Sherrill was already dead), this is why I think there were more than1 perp ,If sherrill was the only target they could easily take her before suzie and stacy came back but it looks like they were waiting also for suzie to come home, maybe they knew that if only Sherrill will be kidnapped then suzie will know why and what is the motive so they had to take them both, so I think both Suzie and Sherrill were the target/ Stacy was just there in the wrong time .

I don't think it was a coincidence that the kidnapping happened a week before Suzie's testimony, it's like someone from higher criminal "league" ordered the kidnapping and the murder, it was very important to the mastermind behind this heinous crime that they will totally disappear.
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Please forgive what I'm sure is already contained in the threads (I'm a fairly new WSer and there is a lot of material on this case)
Can you give me a brief recap on Suzie testifying? I haven't heard about that before. Thanks!

Sent from my SCH-I435L using Tapatalk
 
flute4peace said:
Please forgive what I'm sure is already contained in the threads (I'm a fairly new WSer and there is a lot of material on this case)
Can you give me a brief recap on Suzie testifying? I haven't heard about that before. Thanks!

Sent from my SCH-I435L using Tapatalk
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Hi flute4peace

Suzie was supposed to testify against the graverobbers --- Dustin Recla( ex-boyfriend ) and his friend Michael Clay who stole gold teeth from the corpses ( how horrible!

I tend to believe that these 2 didn't committed the crime but I am strongly believe they know much more than they told the police ,maybe they even know why the crime happened.

Although they probably are not the perps the future testimony against them provoked very dangerous criminals ,some of them probably had some connection with Dustin and Michael Clay (Even through an indirect factor) and those criminals were afraid that the testimony might lead to a direction to their bad/heinous actions.



 
Blue Girl1991 said:
Suzie was supposed to testify against the graverobbers --- Dustin Recla( ex-boyfriend ) and his friend Michael Clay who stole gold teeth from the corpses ( how horrible!

I tend to believe that these 2 didn't committed the crime but I am strongly believe they know much more than they told the police ,maybe they even know why the crime happened.

Although they probably are not the perps the testimony against them provoked very dangerous criminals ,some of them probably had some connection with Dustin and Michael Clay (Even through an indirect factor) and those criminals were afraid that the testimony might lead to a direction to their bad/heinous actions.
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Woah! Thank you so much for that information. I have the book recommended above coming on inter-library loan and am looking forward to reading it. I was a young adult in SW MO when this happened so was aware of it, but lost track over the years. I'm very happy to see the current thread here.

Sent from my SCH-I435L using Tapatalk
 
flute4peace said:
Woah! Thank you so much for that information. I have the book recommended above coming on inter-library loan and am looking forward to reading it. I was a young adult in SW MO when this happened so was aware of it, but lost track over the years. I'm very happy to see the current thread here.

Sent from my SCH-I435L using Tapatalk
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you're most welcome flute4peace :)

I arrived to www.websleuths for this specific disappearance, with time I started to follow and read about many other missing people.

This case is so hunting, sad and scary ... and frustrating
I pray for justice for Suzie ,Sherrill ,Stacy and their families,
it's time for justice and closure after so many years.

ps. It is certainly possible that one of the perps was familiar with Suzie ( and maybe also with Sherrill
 
Blue Girl1991 said:
Thanks for sharing MooseMeMuch.

I am curious to know if some theories in the book are similar to my theory in post 809.
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Thank you Blue Girl....the author used public information and the rest is research. I'll check out your post :)
:thinking:
 
Blue Girl1991 said:
As far as we know Stacy tried to struggle and resist to the perps ,it seems she was dragged from the house so I think if one perp or 2 had to catch stacy and restrained her then someone else had to keep his eyes on Suzie and Sherrill ( or just Suzie .. maybe Sherrill was already dead), this is why I think there were more than1 perp ,If sherrill was the only target they could easily take her before suzie and stacy came back but it looks like they were waiting also for suzie to come home, maybe they knew that if only Sherrill will be kidnapped then suzie will know why and what is the motive so they had to take them both, so I think both Suzie and Sherrill were the target/ Stacy was just there in the wrong time .

I don't think it was a coincidence that the kidnapping happened a week before Suzie's testimony, it's like someone from higher criminal "league" ordered the kidnapping and the murder, it was very important to the mastermind behind this heinous crime that they will totally disappear.
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I concur. It is the only scenario that 'fits' what we, joe public, knows.

I'm curious about the "...we know Stacy tried to struggle....its seems she was dragged from the house..." was their drag marks in the glass, that got swept up?
 
MooseMeMuch said:
I concur. It is the only scenario that 'fits' what we, joe public, knows.

I'm curious about the "...we know Stacy tried to struggle....its seems she was dragged from the house..." was their drag marks in the glass, that got swept up?
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a small stain of stacy's blood found , probably when she was dragged barefoot and stepped on the glass.

I keep reading about cold cases that solved thanks to new investigators with strong passion to bring justice to the victims and to their families, like the missing/ murder case of 2 friends --- Brian Ognjan and David Tyll in Mio 1985 ,
the case got cold and the last investigator solved the case on 2003 when the murderers ( Duvall brothers) charged and went to jail , they will stay there until the last day of their lives .
http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/David_Tyll_and_Brian_Ognjan
I also bought and read the book about this case : Darker than Night by Peter Henderson.

This is an example that shows that there is always hope that this case can also be solved,even if many years have passed since then
 
Blue Girl1991 said:
a small stain of stacy's blood found , probably when she was dragged barefoot and stepped on the glass.

I keep reading about cold cases that solved thanks to new investigators with strong passion to bring justice to the victims and to their families, like the missing/ murder case of 2 friends --- Brian Ognjan and David Tyll in Mio 1985 ,
the case got cold and the last investigator solved the case on 2003 when the murderers ( Duvall brothers) charged and went to jail , they will stay there until the last day of their lives .
http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/David_Tyll_and_Brian_Ognjan
I also bought and read the book about this case : Darker than Night by Peter Henderson.

This is an example that shows that there is always hope that this case can also be solved,even if many years have passed since then.

I looked up the book......terrified witness.....that could be the case here too.

Interesting......where did you find the blood trail info? I've never read that anywhere but it makes sense someone would have stepped in the glass, unless they were each carried out the door.
And 'they went for a walk' makes better sense in this context, along with sweeping up the glass. What was Janelle's specific verbiage as to why they swept up the glass? ..... time to review, again.....I'm thinking one time Janelle said, "It was the polite thing to do." but I may be wrong.

This opens up more questions and fits the 'ruse' of the globe unscrewed and dropped on purpose. Leaving of the cigs, meds and purses.

Don't know if SPD still has passion, IMO they know who 'dunnit' but cannot prove it w/out bodies and/or a confession that passes a Lie Detector test.

Tidbit: Larry D. Hall confessed but 'flunked' that test. If someone could prove he and his brother were attending a Pleasant Hope Civil War 'scrimage' this scenario would also fit. The men are both small of stature and the women would most likely have to walk, vs carried, over the glass. But.....no proof they were in the Spfld area that wknd. that I'm aware of.

Let's be passionate and solve this case. '85 to 2003.....and finally solved. That IS encouraging!
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