NE NE - Jason Jolkowski, 19, Omaha, 13 June 2001 - #2

Vital Forces said:

I don't follow. I didn't mean anyone was hiding in the trash cans. I imagine they'd be sitting in a car across the street.

Click to expand...

Yikes this is the second post I've totally misunderstood tonight. I probably should go to bed!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J120AZ using Tapatalk

flourish said:

Yikes this is the second post I've totally misunderstood tonight. I probably should go to bed!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J120AZ using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

That gave me a giggle," an extra hundred or so pounds " in empty trash bins! Lol

Such a bewildering case. I don't think it will ever be solved.

ekardh said:

Such a bewildering case. I don't think it will ever be solved.

Click to expand...

Sadly I believe you're right. The only small glimmer of hope there is of solving this (which is highly unlikely) is an eventual deathbed confession.

I wish that, just for kicks, the police would reopen this case and reinterview the Fazoli's workers to see if their stories are the same. I just can't put any suspicion past them

Erica Baker is believed to have been killed by a vehicle and then had her body taken an buried.

I know she was a little girl and Jason was a grown man, but Erica's case shows that someone being hit by a vehicle and then the body being taken away is plausible.

Vital Forces said:

Erica Baker is believed to have been killed by a vehicle and then had her body taken an buried.

I know she was a little girl and Jason was a grown man, but Erica's case shows that someone being hit by a vehicle and then the body being taken away is plausible.

Click to expand...

You said it yourself. That was a nine year-old girl, not a 6'1" grown man weighing 165 lbs. Let's be realistic here. I'm not saying it couldn't have happened but probability wise it's incredibly unlikely. I'm almost certain there was foul play but not the hit & run variety.

ekardh said:

You said it yourself. That was a nine year-old girl, not a 6'1" grown man weighing 165 lbs. Let's be realistic here. I'm not saying it couldn't have happened but probability wise it's incredibly unlikely. I'm almost certain there was foul play but not the hit & run variety.

Click to expand...

A 165 pound man can still be picked up. Especially if there was a passenger in the vehicle who helped pick him up. Or, as I suggested earlier, Jason was alive after being hit and the driver helped him into the vehicle and tried to get him to the hospital.

We have as much evidence for foul play as we have for an accident. Whatever happened to Jason must have been an "incredibly unlikely" event. We're stuck in an eternal loop of speculation on this case, but we can't throw away any scenarios which are possible.

An accident is certainly possible, and while there are issues with the theory there are also issues with a workplace conspiracy or a sexual predator taking him off the street.

Vital Forces said:

A 165 pound man can still be picked up. Especially if there was a passenger in the vehicle who helped pick him up. Or, as I suggested earlier, Jason was alive after being hit and the driver helped him into the vehicle and tried to get him to the hospital.

We have as much evidence for foul play as we have for an accident. Whatever happened to Jason must have been an "incredibly unlikely" event. We're stuck in an eternal loop of speculation on this case, but we can't throw away any scenarios which are possible.

An accident is certainly possible, and while there are issues with the theory there are also issues with a workplace conspiracy or a sexual predator taking him off the street.

Click to expand...

Just because it's physically possible doesn't mean it's plausible.

You're driving through the neighourbood at 10am in the morning, you take your eye off the road for a second, or someone walks out of a blindspot. You knock them down.

Do you...

a) take responsibility, check the victim and call for help
b) panic and quickly drive away, leaving the victim behind
c) get out, drag the body into your vehicle, hope no one saw you in the middle of the street. Now you go and dump the body and face possible murder charges?

People's natural reaction is going to almost always be either a or b. I also suspect that someone would've heard or seen something had there been a road accident, since Jason's journey took him through the street on his way to the school.

Btw, I doubt Jason was "taken off the street" so much as lured by someone he knew. I tend to believe he either got into a car or entered someone's home shortly after taking in the trash.

Was he legitimately needed to come in early to work that day? Had someone called in sick? And who called him in - the manager or another coworker?

thenotebook said:

Was he legitimately needed to come in early to work that day? Had someone called in sick? And who called him in - the manager or another coworker?

Click to expand...

According to Jason's mother, the manager had been calling people in earlier/on their days off all week so nobody thought that was particularly unusual

ekardh said:

Just because it's physically possible doesn't mean it's plausible.

You're driving through the neighourbood at 10am in the morning, you take your eye off the road for a second, or someone walks out of a blindspot. You knock them down.

Do you...

a) take responsibility, check the victim and call for help
b) panic and quickly drive away, leaving the victim behind
c) get out, drag the body into your vehicle, hope no one saw you in the middle of the street. Now you go and dump the body and face possible murder charges?

People's natural reaction is going to almost always be either a or b. I also suspect that someone would've heard or seen something had there been a road accident, since Jason's journey took him through the street on his way to the school.

Btw, I doubt Jason was "taken off the street" so much as lured by someone he knew. I tend to believe he either got into a car or entered someone's home shortly after taking in the trash.

Click to expand...

The scenario becomes more plausible if a) there was more than one person in the vehicle who could help pick up the body or b) he wasn't killed and the driver helped him into the vehicle with the intention of getting him to the hospital but he died on the way, possibly from internal bleeding. With the latter situation picking up the body or hoping no one saw you isn't much of an issue.

A car accident doesn't necessarily have to be the loudest event in the world, and again most people were at work around this time and the people at home didn't know a crime was being committed. So they weren't on alert to look for Jason or any suspicious activity.

I understand certain people have trouble with this scenario but I do not think it should be dismissed. I have trouble with a group of pizza parlor employees managing to abduct Jason and then defeat a police investigation, but I have not dismissed it as too ridiculous to be considered. Whatever happened to Jason must have been an incredibly unique event, so we need to explore possibilities which don't happen every day.

Vital Forces said:

The scenario becomes more plausible if a) there was more than one person in the vehicle who could help pick up the body or b) he wasn't killed and the driver helped him into the vehicle with the intention of getting him to the hospital but he died on the way, possibly from internal bleeding. With the latter situation picking up the body or hoping no one saw you isn't much of an issue..

Click to expand...

Nope, if anything if you multiply the people involved, you multiply the complications and increase the odds of this being exposed.

Also, who knocks someone over in their car and offers to drive their bloody, battered body to the hospital instead of just... y'know... calling an ambulance? You watch too many movies, guy.

ekardh said:

Nope, if anything if you multiply the people involved, you multiply the complications and increase the odds of this being exposed.

Click to expand...

The same thing could be said about Fazoli theories.

How I imagine this accident scenario: Two people are in a vehicle and travel down the road. The driver hits someone. They get out to see what happened. In the moment, they decide to pick up his body and take it with them. This is more plausible if they're both strong men and even more plausible if they're in a pickup truck.

That isn't what happens in every hit-and-run. No one is saying that is typical of a hit-and-run. Something like that may happen 1 in every 1,000 hit-and-runs.

That isn't the theory I really want to go with but I can't dismiss it as impossible. Let's move on and again review what I find much more likely.

Also, who knocks someone over in their car and offers to drive their bloody, battered body to the hospital instead of just... y'know... calling an ambulance? You watch too many movies, guy.

Click to expand...

I've never seen anything like that in a movie. :wink:

He didn't have be hit at a very high speed or be completely run over. He didn't have to be "bloody" or "battered." There is no 'he was hit and became a mangled mess or he wasn't hit at all' dichotomy.

I found this article about this topic which may be helpful.

Here is how I imagine it. He was hit at a speed, let's say 25 or 30 miles an hour, which was enough to injury him but not kill him or leave him unconscious. The driver gets out to help him. In the moment, the driver thinks the best course of action is to get him to his backseat and drive him to the hospital himself. Jason's injuries are worse than either of them realize, and he dies en route. Jason's body is buried and never found.

It happens quickly. No one had to plan it out or have a motive. No one worried at the time if the neighbors saw anything - they just got lucky.

I think what makes the Fazoli's theory so attractive is that it's an easy starting point. In a case where there are NO clues, NO leads and NO substantial theories, then the easiest place to start is with the people who at least knew of Jason's schedule change and who knew that he would be out walking. Everything fits decently well: Jason gets called in, Jason get's intercepted, Jason willingly gets into a car with someone he knew (thus no struggle) and Jason then gets taken for a ride and more than likely murdered. The main fault people have with the Fazoli's theory is the 'why' aspect of it. Now looking at the other popular theory, some predator lures Jason into their house or car, the 'why' is what makes that one so appealing. It's easy to simply be able to say that sexual motivation was the cause for the kidnapping/murder, so there's less to think about if a predator is the culprit. However, the hows tend to get a little more elaborate with this theory. Jason is lured into a home/car with the promise of something or a ride to work (stranger danger?) , Jason is lured into a home with someone needing help with trash cans only to be murdered, Jason is brought into someone's house only to die accidentally and have them cover up the accident (yeah right). I'm not saying that these theories are impossible, but given what we know of Jason (not too much, sadly) it's the best bet to say that he would be more cautious with strangers even though he was described as naive. Granted, this does not account for the possibly that Jason was lured into the car by someone he knew and did not know to be a predator. The fact that no confrontation was heard, nothing was left behind such as a wallet, keys, or even the work clothing he was carrying, leads me to believe that the abduction process was quick and easy, and also likely planned out to some extent as to keep it brief

Lots of good comments on here. I can't believe there are still no answers in this case. So frustrating. I am not ready to give up on a Fazoi's connection.I read through the comments here and I had never heard of that Fazoli's employee who had previously (at a different job?) been into inviting younger males to his house. Are there any more details on this?

I know everyone at Fazoli's was interviewed and supposedly cleared but something doesn't sit right with me considering they were really the only ones who knew Jason would be walking alone that morning. There was the neighbor whose house was searched, but I haven't read any more detail on that. On what premise was the house searched???

I don't see Jason as being a good candidate for a random crime of opportunity. Tall adult male, walking through a residential neighborhood on a summer morning doesn't really fit that scenario.
I really wish some more information would come out. I don't know if LE really has NO other information or if they are withholding anything.

Also-Sam Sherman, he must exist but my bet is that he skipped town and lost contact with friends and family for some reason. I don't see any connection there. If he was like Jason, lived in the neighborhood, worked in the area, had a stable home life and then vanished out of thin air I would probably be suspicious, but I think he was just a drifter passing through town. Maybe looking for a place to work and stay for a while and that was the last place his family knew where he was.

Either someone from Fazoli's was a perv and set him up or a neighbor who knew that he was a trusting person and perhaps not totally street smart asked him for help and then did something awful. I don't buy into random abduction or "hit and run and hide the body."

MysteryMaven said:

Lots of good comments on here. I can't believe there are still no answers in this case. So frustrating. I am not ready to give up on a Fazoi's connection.I read through the comments here and I had never heard of that Fazoli's employee who had previously (at a different job?) been into inviting younger males to his house. Are there any more details on this?

I know everyone at Fazoli's was interviewed and supposedly cleared but something doesn't sit right with me considering they were really the only ones who knew Jason would be walking alone that morning. There was the neighbor whose house was searched, but I haven't read any more detail on that. On what premise was the house searched???

I don't see Jason as being a good candidate for a random crime of opportunity. Tall adult male, walking through a residential neighborhood on a summer morning doesn't really fit that scenario.
I really wish some more information would come out. I don't know if LE really has NO other information or if they are withholding anything.

Also-Sam Sherman, he must exist but my bet is that he skipped town and lost contact with friends and family for some reason. I don't see any connection there. If he was like Jason, lived in the neighborhood, worked in the area, had a stable home life and then vanished out of thin air I would probably be suspicious, but I think he was just a drifter passing through town. Maybe looking for a place to work and stay for a while and that was the last place his family knew where he was.

Either someone from Fazoli's was a perv and set him up or a neighbor who knew that he was a trusting person and perhaps not totally street smart asked him for help and then did something awful. I don't buy into random abduction or "hit and run and hide the body."

Click to expand...

BBM.

Yeah, I happen to think that maybe Sam doesn't even know he's "missing". Maybe LE didn't take it very seriously when whoever reported him missing, reported him missing and they didn't bother to update LE? Is that too much of a stretch? Obviously someone cared enough for him to report him missing so is it too much of a stretch to say if they cared to do that, surely they would have carried on pursuing it?? Which leads me to believe there was no longer anything to pursue.

I would really like to know who reported him missing and see what they know today.

I don't buy into the Sam Sherman connection at all. Totally different circumstances. Maybe that wasn't even his real name since there is so little about a Sam Sherman of that age range in Omaha. Who knows where he was even really from.
I did a little reading from various websites. Apparently there was an RSO living by Gallagher Park. It is possible Jason could have cut through the park to get to the high school.
I wish there was some way to research the SO's living in the area at the time. Although a sex offender who went after older males I think would be uncommon.

Also the Fazolis guy who invited guys over was cleared.
Still can't find details on the house that was searched.

It would be interesting to hear what Jason's younger brother thinks. Sometimes kids talk about stuff with each other that the parents don't know about, like who the weirdos are in the neighborhood, rumors about people, things like that.
Although I am sure he would have told anything he thought was important to LE.
But it would still be inteteresting to hear what he thinks.

MysteryMaven said:

I don't buy into the Sam Sherman connection at all. Totally different circumstances. Maybe that wasn't even his real name since there is so little about a Sam Sherman of that age range in Omaha. Who knows where he was even really from.
I did a little reading from various websites. Apparently there was an RSO living by Gallagher Park. It is possible Jason could have cut through the park to get to the high school.
I wish there was some way to research the SO's living in the area at the time. Although a sex offender who went after older males I think would be uncommon.

Also the Fazolis guy who invited guys over was cleared.
Still can't find details on the house that was searched.

It would be interesting to hear what Jason's younger brother thinks. Sometimes kids talk about stuff with each other that the parents don't know about, like who the weirdos are in the neighborhood, rumors about people, things like that.
Although I am sure he would have told anything he thought was important to LE.
But it would still be inteteresting to hear what he thinks.

Click to expand...

I was going to write about his brother too. I believe he was 13 at the time? Not old but not exactly too young to be brought up more in the discussions considering that in other disappearances (e.g Asha Degree) much younger siblings have been flat out suspected as having something to do with it. Has his brother ever spoken about it? Now he's much older has he ever wrote anything (blogs, social media etc) appealing for information or anything like that? I doubt his brother was involved but given he was the last person to see him and we are told over and over that more often than not these cases are something to do with people closest to them you'd think he would have been scrutinized more, maybe?

John.121 said:

I was going to write about his brother too. I believe he was 13 at the time? Not old but not exactly too young to be brought up more in the discussions considering that in other disappearances (e.g Asha Degree) much younger siblings have been flat out suspected as having something to do with it. Has his brother ever spoken about it? Now he's much older has he ever wrote anything (blogs, social media etc) appealing for information or anything like that? I doubt his brother was involved but given he was the last person to see him and we are told over and over that more often than not these cases are something to do with people closest to them you'd think he would have been scrutinized more, maybe?

Click to expand...

Well his brother's claim of seeing Jason carrying in the garbage is backed up by a neighbor who also spotted him. I'm curious if this is the same name neighbor whose house was searched with suspicion. I've never actually seen anyone on this thread suggest that his family might have been involved. His parents were already at work, and according to a podcast interview his mother gave, they didn't even know about his schedule change until after he disappeared and heard the account. Only his brother knew. I highly doubt that a 12/13 year old would have the means or reason to kill his older brother, and I much less doubt that he'd be able to make the body disappear and hide everything so neatly. From everything I've seen the brother seems to stay out of the media circus with the disappearance. I've looked at his Facebook before and all I know about him is that he was in the army and he just recently had two twin boys with his wife. I looked to see if either were named Jason (just out of curiosity).. nope. That obviously doesn't mean anything, just a random tidbit. I can only guess that he doesn't hold on to the past and that he very likely assumes that Jason is long deceased.

MysteryMaven said:

Lots of good comments on here. I can't believe there are still no answers in this case. So frustrating. I am not ready to give up on a Fazoi's connection.I read through the comments here and I had never heard of that Fazoli's employee who had previously (at a different job?) been into inviting younger males to his house. Are there any more details on this?

Click to expand...

One reason I don't buy the Fazoli's conspiracy is that it would have had to have been perfectly timed and Jason would have had to have not questioned a stranger showing up out of nowhere.

I don't know who Jason spoke to on the phone. It could have been the manager or the girl who was to pick him up or a busboy or whoever else. I believe it was the girl who was supposed to pick him up.

Whoever it was, let's call the person he talked to Person X and and this person was part of a conspiracy to abduct him. How did Person X get someone to Jason's area in time? I guess they could have had someone in his neighborhood watching the house, waiting for a moment to strike. Or, less likely, they would have to have their accomplice enter his neighborhood in the minutes after the phone call.

Now, imagine you're Jason. You've just had a phone call where you made plans to walk to Benson High School and you've moved the trash cans inside and you're on your way to the school. Suddenly a car pulls up next you. The driver says that Person X sent them to pick you up.

Wouldn't you find this suspicious? I'd be dumbstruck by this. Why would you work out this plan with someone to meet them at Benson only to have them send a ride straight to your house right away? Why didn't the person at Fazoli's call you about this change of plans? And how did this mysterious driver get to your house/neighborhood so quickly after you just talked to Person X at Fazoli's?

Jason was described as having an above-average intellect. He would have seen something off in this mystery driver showing up out of nowhere a couple minutes after he had just gotten off the phone and made completely different arrangements.