GA GA - Jenna Van Gelderen, 25, Atlanta, 18 Aug 2017 #3

momrids6 said:

I have a question Subie: Would Jenna use the term "laying down" at 2am? or any time? It's not something one of mine would text- and my 25 yr old is pretty similar. It has bothered me from the beginning. Mine shoot off= "going to bed" "tired, ttyl"... "I'm whipped"....etc

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I agree, i have a 22 yr old Daughter - and she wouldn't say this.
this bothers me too, the grammar is too perfect and not in a friendly tone for a good friend

pattysleuth said:

I agree, i have a 22 yr old Daughter - and she wouldn't say this.
this bothers me too, the grammar is too perfect and not in a friendly tone for a good friend

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Granted I’m 5 years older than Jenna, but I say I’m going to lay down all the time. Usually it’s the polite way to say I’m done chatting for the night and am going to watch tv, play on my phone, etc etc

pattysleuth said:

I agree, i have a 22 yr old Daughter - and she wouldn't say this.
this bothers me too, the grammar is too perfect and not in a friendly tone for a good friend

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My 25 yr old has had 12 yrs of speech therapy- which makes some things he says a bit more "formal", but not to this level, hence the reason I asked. Only my mother, at 75, says she's laying down. Georgia kids don't typically use that terminology.

Re: the apartment. Part of the legal definition of trafficking is "harboring" a victim. It would be harder to prove harboring if the victim's name is on the lease. Also, there is some reference to keeping a place for the purpose of illicit activity as being part of the definition of trafficking. A shared lease would make it harder to prove coercion, IMO. I will say, I'm happy to see that they have added wording that makes "subtle coercion" part of the definition. Oh, and another thing, "transporting" is illegal. Might relate to the use of the cars?

https://law.georgia.gov/human-trafficking

I apologize for bringing up the trafficking theory again. I wish it wasn't on the top of my mind, believe me.

BlkMtnGirl said:

Re: the apartment. Part of the legal definition of trafficking is "harboring" a victim. It would be harder to prove harboring if the victim's name is on the lease. Also, there is some reference to keeping a place for the purpose of illicit activity as being part of the definition of trafficking. A shared lease would make it harder to prove coercion, IMO. I will say, I'm happy to see that they have added wording that makes "subtle coercion" part of the definition. Oh, and another thing, "transporting" is illegal. Might relate to the use of the cars?

https://law.georgia.gov/human-trafficking

I apologize for bringing up the trafficking theory again. I wish it wasn't on the top of my mind, believe me.

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If J was being kept in the apartment as a trafficking victim, I don't think they would have let her out to go and house sit for her parents. Also, she spoke to them every day on the phone. She has either come to harm or left voluntarily IMO. I tend to believe the first but would not discount she is now being held against her will somewhere. Don't apologise for bringing up trafficking. It's not my number 1 but all theories are to be considered.

Presumably family knows what state of mind J was in because of her call to her SC friend at 11.45 and so they will know if she was upset. Could she have decided to harm herself because of this break up? I have wondered about the "I'm laying down" text and it concerns me tbh.

Shiressleuth said:

Presumably family knows what state of mind J was in because of her call to her SC friend at 11.45 and so they will know if she was upset. Could she have decided to harm herself because of this break up? I have wondered about the "I'm laying down" text and it concerns me tbh.

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I have thought about her harming herself because of the break up. Do we know for sure that the 11:45 “call” was a call and not a message? This is the one that was recorded, correct? If a person was talking about harming themselves, that would be a good reason to record the conversation.


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unleadedduck said:

I have thought about her harming herself because of the break up. Do we know for sure that the 11:45 “call” was a call and not a message? This is the one that was recorded, correct? If a person was talking about harming themselves, that would be a good reason to record the conversation.


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I'm not sure if we know for certain, but I believe the call before midnight on Friday to have been a call, and the two am to be a text. As a PP said, I think laying down is something someone would say when they're tired or going to relax, but not necessarily go to bed or go to sleep. I can see her doing this if she were, as the friend has stated, very upset about how things went with this guy. It could be meaningful that her friend felt that this was odd for her to say. It still is not clear that the recording of her plans is from a phone call; it hasn't been stated what that source is.

There has been a lot of justified concern about the apartment lately. I think there are assumptions that there was no furniture there/empty apartment, when, AFAIK, it's only been said by the roommate that Jenna did not have furniture there. This would be compatible with her staying on a couch, in the roommate's bed with him (and, as others have said, trying to hide this from her family), or in another bed owned by the roommate. I would actually lean towards the middle option, if it didn't seem Jenna were upset about one of the other males involved in the case that night. I also think it's possible that her roommate either got rid of or stole her furniture, it it existed, for purely financial or even practical reasons (new roommate needed, etc.). Obviously, if she had furniture or other belongings that were intentionally destroyed or disposed of for purposes of hiding a crime . . . that's obviously very concerning. I assume this is part of what her family is hoping to discover by seeking information about the apartment on social media. If they're able to establish her having other belongings there, I would love for her family to be able to use this info to get the police in and process it. It really troubles me that we still don't know exactly where and when Jenna went missing.

momrids6 said:

My 25 yr old has had 12 yrs of speech therapy- which makes some things he says a bit more "formal", but not to this level, hence the reason I asked. Only my mother, at 75, says she's laying down. Georgia kids don't typically use that terminology.

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I say this a lot via text and I'm 32! Ha. But if it wasn't something anyone had ever seen her text before, that's very suspicious.


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kdhith said:

There is a document that you can google called "statement of rental policy" for that property management company. The link I found is for another property managed by the same company, but it's hard to imagine that they use different criteria for different properties.

The policy statement indicates that they qualify all applicants via 1) credit report, 2) criminal background check, 3) income (gross income is 3x monthly rent), and 4) employment history. It also says that roommates have to substantiate that their gross income is 65% of 3x monthly rent.

It also states that anyone over 18 who is financially independent of the applicant must apply and be accepted as a Lessee and be listed on the lease agreement.

Whether the property management company actually follows the procedures they outline may be a different story. I'm pretty sure that the family obtained Jenna's credit report, and that should provide information about whether soft or hard inquiries were pulled on her credit.

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TY so much. It would be interesting to know how strictly their criteria was enforced. It would be good to know if Jenna had a source of income outside of occasional bill help from family.

noseynellie said:

I guess if it was a relationship, why did he make it sound like he was doing her a favor by letting her stay there? He told her family it was supposed to be temporary until she found another place. I don't understand the motive for saying that if it's not true. Could it be to give the impression - like the ex - that he was the one wanting out the situation - not the other way around?


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I wonder if he said it directly to the family of if he said it to the PI? It would be interesting to know if roommate spoke more freely to the PI then family or police.

JLD333 said:

I say this a lot via text and I'm 32! Ha. But if it wasn't something anyone had ever seen her text before, that's very suspicious.


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Same and I’m 31 [emoji854]


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unleadedduck said:

I have thought about her harming herself because of the break up. Do we know for sure that the 11:45 “call” was a call and not a message? This is the one that was recorded, correct? If a person was talking about harming themselves, that would be a good reason to record the conversation.


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If you look at the timeline Part 1 on the first page of this thread you will see the details that we have regarding this telecon based on the info from the VI. He said that LE know what was discussed as they have spoken to the SC friend. We don't know what was discussed unfortunately and I am not sure if it was recorded.

Another idea came to me: A&E has a show called Live PD, that airs Friday and Saturday Nights, they have recently started doing a segment in the show on missing persons, it would be really good if there was a way to get Jenna featured on it!

jnelsoninjax said:

Another idea came to me: A&E has a show called Live PD, that airs Friday and Saturday Nights, they have recently started doing a segment in the show on missing persons, it would be really good if there was a way to get Jenna featured on it!

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This is a great idea!

Subie, what do you think?


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Its quiet on the board

@Subie Any news on the planned searches?

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Shiressleuth said:

If J was being kept in the apartment as a trafficking victim, I don't think they would have let her out to go and house sit for her parents. Also, she spoke to them every day on the phone. She has either come to harm or left voluntarily IMO. I tend to believe the first but would not discount she is now being held against her will somewhere. Don't apologise for bringing up trafficking. It's not my number 1 but all theories are to be considered.

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As I understand it, many (or most?) trafficking victims are not held physically captive. Many victims have been so emotionally manipulated that they think it's their own decision. I can imagine a victim being manipulated into lying to her family, even if they speak to each other every day.

It would be good to know current status of the investigation. It has gone very quiet which is a bit concerning. Perhaps it means something is happening behind the scenes.

Shiressleuth said:

It would be good to know current status of the investigation. It has gone very quiet which is a bit concerning. Perhaps it means something is happening behind the scenes.

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We have been speaking with new detectives on the case from DeKalb police. Lots of holes in the files apparently so they had to start from the beginning and also begin the process of re interviewing people.

We also have a good lead on that Jenna around 1145 pm that night drove from her apartment to a Handi Mart on the west side of Atlanta. We believe this is actually where she met our original POI the ex.

The route down 14th Street on her time line matches previous routes she took to his place which isn't far from this gas station.

So now what we still are trying to figure out is what happened next. We know Atlanta police have started getting traffic cam footage from Friday as well as Saturday morning. <modsnip>

Just need a good solid lead to fill in the gaps

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Subie that's really good. Sometimes when fresh eyes have a look it changes things. I also think starting from the beginning is brilliant because you and I think everyone else knew info was missing. I least this way I may fill in the blanks. I think by the sounds of it they are finally taking you serious about Jenna being missing instead of going off on her own. I feel really happy for you subie.