South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #4

Imagine seeing this in the middle of your house at night, with an axe in his hand.

My screams would be heard by neighbours living on the outer edges of the estate.



https://twitter.com/HiRezLife

His demeanor in the Box was certainly something to be concerned about. Not his stutter, of which there was not a hint.

JudgeJudi said:

This is yet another desperate attempt by Botha to save his client. During the many lengthy consultations he had with HvB, he was able to observe him answering questions. If he saw warning signs, or red flags, or indeed had any doubts regarding his mental health, he could have sought a clinical consultation or even a formal evaluation of his client’s mental health.

It's so obvious that this is a desperate ploy to try and excuse the fact that HvB did nothing to help, aid or comfort his family.

If the psychologist doesn't testify and Botha only produces his/her report, Galloway can argue that the statements contained in it were from a non-witness that she was unable to cross-examine and such are hearsay.

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Spot on JJ. Botha has always got a trick up his sleeve.

Rayemonde said:

I'm interested to know more about his brain defect and if it could have anything to do with his behaviour.

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I remember reading something, would have been within the last couple of weeks, that basically said whatever the defect, it's something very minor; I think it said medical opinion was that it was not considered to be of any significance. Please forgive me for not being more helpful about that, but I really don't want to go sifting through all the articles I've read just recently. Too many! There was something Judge Desai said I need to look up ... :findinglink:

Fluffykins/Rayemonde I think it was a cyst but said to be of no consequence.

There is a report somewhere on the internet by Andrew Rule (I think) which says his behaviour deteriorated whilst in Melbourne and he dropped out of University. It is also thought he may well have been on crystal meths. His family deny this but he was arrested together with his then girlfriend and they spent the night in jail. He was then supposed to have gone into rehab but his family also denied this. We know the arrest was genuine and reported in SA papers.

https://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/murder-accused-henri-van-breda-bust-for-drugs-2066563

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...c1c92cf0bf87&usg=AOvVaw2IV0wTVUT2hYF3hheOoVeT

This last link has more behind a paywall. If one clicks a second time on the link the option to pay appears. Maybe one of our Aussie friends has access to the information. It looks as though Andrew Rule is waiting to publish after the trial.


It would be pure guesswork to say his crystal meth addiction caused the cyst but it is known to play havoc with the brain. However, his bloods, post murders, showed NO drugs or drink and yet we know the Police or Ambulance personnel said when they arrived at the scene he smelt of alcohol and during the trial he admitted drinking wine and whisky the night of the murders.

Evidence in chief

HvB: I lit a cigarette to try and calm myself down because I was breathing very fast and I was acutely aware of the fact that I wouldn’t be able to communicate properly.

PB: Now Mr vB reference was made by at least one witness in the course of the proceedings um of you having a speech impediment as a child. Can you explain to your lordship what that was.

HvB: Um yeah I had a rather severe stutter or they specifically classified it as a block which um I would spend a lot of time trying to say a word but just (opens mouth silently to demonstrate) my vocal cords would just get stuck um and so this..

Judge: How did you improve your stutter?

HvB: Um various techniques [..] no, starting in Grade 4 I started receiving speech therapy and I think, I think I continued speech therapy until the end of Grade 10.

PB: And could you describe what are the things you are taught to overcome this stutter.

HvB: Well one of the immediate things was to speak slowly and calmly because as soon as I start speaking fast I would get stuck and you’ll notice that I say um a lot, that was one of the techniques taught to me to use just to start making a sound with my mouth before the word that I was going to use um and yep so there were various ways of dealing with it.


Cross-Examination

SG: Mr vB just to make sure um ever since you started testifying this morning, except for reminding you that you need to speak up and speak slower so that we can write down, you haven’t stuttered.

HvB: That’s probably correct.

PB: With respect that’s not true. There are a number of occasions where he [inaudible]

Judge: Let him answer the question.

PB: My learned colleague can’t put a statement that’s factually incorrect to the witness and then I cannot object.

Judge: Inaudible

SG: I didn’t notice any stuttering my lord. You answered the question before the interruption from counsel Mr vB?

HvB: Yes um I cannot specifically recall having stuttered today um but

Judge: If you can stand closer and speak louder so I can hear you, sorry about that.

HvB: Um I cannot specifically recall having stuttered other than that particular moment right there so I don’t think you might have picked up on it if I did stutter but um I’ve been focussing very hard on not stuttering. Um we would have noticed the amount that I was sweating when I started here when I was in school every oral presentation I gave I would end up drenched in sweat um so I was having difficulty with my stutter today.

SG: I will agree that you did make use of the word um [inaudible] on several occasions but I certainly did not pick up any stuttering.

SG: you mentioned at least twice during the course of your evidence in chief that the houses are rather close to one another.

HvB: correct.

SG: given that the houses are rather close to one another what is your comment if you want to comment on the testimony of Mrs Taljaard who testified in the defence case that amongst other things she did not hear anybody running away in the estate during the course of the incident.

HvB: I don’t dispute that.

Judge: Sorry I can’t hear you

HvB: I don’t dispute that.

SG: That is her testimony.

HvB: Okay.

Judge: No the question is not that.. what’s your comment on it?

HvB: If I want to comment. I’d rather not comment.

SG: You’d rather not comment?

HvB: Ya, I don’t think I’m informed to comment.

SG: Sorry, you don’t think you’re what?

HvB: laughs, um

Judge: inaudible.

HvB: I haven’t actually spoken to her and I have no idea what she did or did not hear but I was in court when she said that she didn’t hear anything and I don’t dispute that, um I’m not sure what else you want me to comment on.

SG: you see it’s difficult to marry what she says that she didn’t hear anybody running away from having to infer from your version that at least two people ought to have run away at some stage.

HvB: Yes, I didn’t hear them running away either.

SG: Given that it is your version that somehow somebody got onto, oh sorry not just somebody, more than one person got onto the estate, I’m going to put to you that what you are inferring or asking the court to follow or believe is that somehow these people, and it is more than one according to you, they got onto the estate without tripping the wires or alerting security by getting over the fence, or presumably they brought something with them to cover up the fence so as not to trip the fence, they are then in some way successful in getting over or under or through the fence, which would imply that they go to a lot of trouble to get onto the estate. Would you agree?

HvB: That would be a fair assessment probably.

SG: and then they manage to move from the perimeter fence to where your house is located more or less in the middle of the estate, do you agree? On the location of your house?

HvB: the location of my house is yes, in the central area of the estate.

SG: So now, after they’ve managed to get onto the estate they also managed to move from the perimeter fence to your house, undetected?

HvB: Presumably, yes.

SG: Then, they manage to pick a house in the estate where the back door is left open, easy access to the house?

HvB: m hmm

SG: and then, everything changes. They don’t proceed to remove valuable property which is clearly within eyesight, one person moves upstairs and attacks the family.

HvB: mumbles.

SG: Is that what happened, is that your answer?

HvB: That’s what I saw.

SG: and then, further from that, they then flee the property, your house, nobody hears anything, not even you, they again manage to proceed from the house..

PB: My client never said he didn’t hear someone flee, he said he saw the people running to..

HvB: I did

SG: My lord the witness said he also did not hear anybody running away.

Judge: Carry on Ms Galloway

SG: The people then managed to proceed again back from your house to the perimeter fence without being witnessed, and they again managed to get out of or over or under or through the electrical fence without it being triggered.

HvB: If they came over or through the fence then yes.

Judge: How do you say they breached the security of the estate?

HvB: I can’t say but from the evidence we’ve heard we guess we know that it could have been either the gate or the fact that people lend out their um keys, lend out their keys to the security gate.

SG: So are you implying that somebody who was given a key to the estate by somebody residing on the estate might have used that to get onto the estate to commit this crime?

HvB: I think that’s a reasonable possibility that someone might have had access to a key card and gained access to the estate in that way, yes.

Judge: You mean somebody had access to a resident’s key card?

HvB: Hmm, nodding.

SG: and you describe that as a reasonable possibility?

HvB: I would yes.

SG: Do you understand the difference between a possibility and a reasonable possibility?

PB: rolls eyes

HvB: reasonably (smirking)

SG: A possibility is when anything is possible as wide as you can think. A reasonable possibility is within what is available it must be reasonable and fits with what evidence or facts are available.

HvB: Yes, I think it is a reasonable possibility when compared to someone jumping the fence.

PB: drops head to hand. (Lawyer’s head starts swivelling.)

Judge: No but that’s theoretical. If somebody gave a card to the intruder, either the card was stolen or somebody gave it consciously to the person, one of two options,

HvB: Yes

Judge: If the card was stolen then this is a highly unlikely sequence of events that he fortuitously comes across the card, breaks into the security estate and attacks your family. On the other hand if somebody willingly gives the security card to the person, the intruder, that means somebody has malice against your family, especially, the family was killed.

HvB: If if if that, if

Judge: If that is..

HvB: In your scenario the person knows what purpose they’re giving the key card for.

Judge: We’ve heard evidence throughout that your family had no real enemies.

HvB: No, that’s correct (crestfallen)

Judge: So the story of a card seems like a bit of an unlikely scenario.

HvB: I suppose.

Judge: Sorry?

HvB: I suppose so yes.

Thank you Tortoise. That is excellent. I really do find HvB's comments bizarre, as Botha does too. HvB obviously thinks he is being very clever and seems to be totally unaware that he is making a fool of himself. Very odd indeed - for someone who is supposed to be brilliant he displays very low level intelligence. Is that possible?

https://twitter.com/HiRezLife

I've been watching these 4 seconds [1:17 to 1:21] over and over and over again. Unreal. "And I think they would've understood." Galloway: They would have understood? "Yes." Notice the micro expressions bubblings under the surface.

[video=youtube;1xUGZ0bV-zk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xUGZ0bV-zk&feature=youtu.be&t=1m17s[/video]

About smoking the cigarettes -

Is there a semblance of remorse, regret when he says, "And I think they would've understood." He found that extremely difficult to say compared to him describing the slaughter of his brother and father which wasn't difficult at all. As an onlooker it's really bizarre.

I think he's told himself he didn't have a choice (Rudi drove him to it?), he's forgiven himself for losing it and killing them, he thinks his family have forgiven him too, that's justice enough! :facepalm:

HvB's had two girlfriends, one long term who's currently standing by him throughout this trial. She gave him the airplane pin to give him courage for the future and their planned trips abroad. He must be capable of loving and being loved, he can hold a conversation, appear normal except for some odd behaviour, like when he returned to the crime scene he grabbed a bottle of his father's whiskey?!

It's been nearly 3 years (in Jan, 2018) since the murders and everyone he's associated with, believe him. We have to think about it, he's convinced Martin and Teresa's family, his girlfriend and friends, he has confidence that he's won this.

I believe this is to do with the current climate in South Africa, people are being brutally murdered out on the farms, why not in an estate? It's a racial and political situation he's relying on, but the polls and twitter feed reveal no one is buying it.

https://twitter.com/HiRezLife

Another contradiction. In court Henri testified that he *wanted* to do this #divingcourse. It was one of very few occasions when he stuttered, catching on the N-N-N in KwaZulu Natal. If the psychologist testifies, Galloway needs to open the #pandorasbox of #siblingrivalry. Notice the ridiculous comment about that in this screengrab.

https://www.pressreader.com/south-africa/you-south-africa/20171005/281595240724999

Interview with Teresa's sister, Leenta Nel (she's lived in Canada with her husband for 20 years) All the family including the grandmother believes Henri's version.

"Although I may wonder if Henri could be responsible for murdering my sister as well as his dad and brother, I do know the person who did definitely wasn't the Henri I know.

If it was him, something must have happened in his brain that night to make him act totally differently. Because the next morning, when my brother Andre [de Toit] saw Henri, he was his normal self. He was the Henri we've all known since he was little."
.........

She recalls a particular day in 2014, which strengthen her beliefs that the boy she knew couldn't have slaughtered his family. Her mom, Rika d Toit (now 93), had arrived from Kempton Park to visit the family in Cape Town and had taken a fall.
"She cut her elbow and Teresa asked Henri to help tend to the wound. He wouldn't because blood made him feel queasy," Leenta says.

"Everybody already thinks he's guilty. But what if he's actually innocent? Can you imagine what absolute hell he must be going through? We're holding our breath for the verdict", Leenta says.

https://www.pressreader.com/south-africa/you-south-africa/20171005/281595240724999

After Monday, time for a long break from WS. :loveyou:

Sounds as though the whole family is in denial. There is going to be a rude awakening very soon.

Prime Suspect,

thank you for all your work updating us. Much appreciated.
Enjoy your long break from WS. Your posts will be missed as I, for one, enjoyed reading them.
Wishing you all the best for now.

:blowkiss:

:takeabow:

PrimeSuspect said:

Interview with Teresa's sister, Leenta Nel (she's lived in Canada with her husband for 20 years) All the family including the grandmother believes Henri's version.

"Although I may wonder if Henri could be responsible for murdering my sister as well as his dad and brother, I do know the person who did definitely wasn't the Henri I know.

If it was him, something must have happened in his brain that night to make him act totally differently. Because the next morning, when my brother Andre [de Toit] saw Henri, he was his normal self. He was the Henri we've all known since he was little."
.........

She recalls a particular day in 2014, which strengthen her beliefs that the boy she knew couldn't have slaughtered his family. Her mom, Rika d Toit (now 93), had arrived from Kempton Park to visit the family in Cape Town and had taken a fall.
"She cut her elbow and Teresa asked Henri to help tend to the wound. He wouldn't because blood made him feel queasy," Leenta says.

"Everybody already thinks he's guilty. But what if he's actually innocent? Can you imagine what absolute hell he must be going through? We're holding our breath for the verdict", Leenta says.

https://www.pressreader.com/south-africa/you-south-africa/20171005/281595240724999

After Monday, time for a long break from WS. :loveyou:

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Trials are hard work and very emotionally draining. You deserve some time to recharge. Thanks, Prime and stay safe x

Interested Bystander said:

Sounds as though the whole family is in denial. There is going to be a rude awakening very soon.

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IMO, DENIAL can be a powerful defense, a defense against the 'unthinkable'.

It sounds from the Pressreader article that Marli and HVB don't see each other if he is always asking how his little sister is. We know they have met once some weeks after the event. I wonder why?

Tortoise said:

SG: given that the houses are rather close to one another what is your comment if you want to comment on the testimony of Mrs Taljaard who testified in the defence case that amongst other things she did not hear anybody running away in the estate during the course of the incident.

HvB: I don’t dispute that.

Judge: Sorry I can’t hear you

HvB: I don’t dispute that.

SG: That is her testimony.

HvB: Okay.

Judge: No the question is not that.. what’s your comment on it?

HvB: If I want to comment. I’d rather not comment.

SG: You’d rather not comment?

HvB: Ya, I don’t think I’m informed to comment.

SG: Sorry, you don’t think you’re what?

HvB: laughs, um

Judge: inaudible.

HvB: I haven’t actually spoken to her and I have no idea what she did or did not hear but I was in court when she said that she didn’t hear anything and I don’t dispute that, um I’m not sure what else you want me to comment on.

SG: you see it’s difficult to marry what she says that she didn’t hear anybody running away from having to infer from your version that at least two people ought to have run away at some stage.

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BBM. He does seem to have rather a literal sort of mind and doesn't grasp the subtleties of what people are implying.

Interested Bystander said:

I noticed that and it irritated me too. My overriding feeling was how immature her behaviour was. I don't think she really believed him and it was more for public consumption.

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She reminds me of Olive Oyl From "Popeye"!! (Apology to Olive!)

Interested Bystander said:

Thank you Tortoise. That is excellent. I really do find HvB's comments bizarre, as Botha does too. HvB obviously thinks he is being very clever and seems to be totally unaware that he is making a fool of himself. Very odd indeed - for someone who is supposed to be brilliant he displays very low level intelligence. Is that possible?

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Perhaps you are talking about his lacking in emotional intelligence!

Henri leaves big questions unanswered...

https://www.thesouthafrican.com/van-breda-trial-update-henri-leaves-big-questions-unanswered/