TX - 26 dead, 20 injured in church shooting, Sutherland Springs, 5 Nov 2017 #2

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Bill Carson said:
Quite a remarkable transformation.

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https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...church-invites-public-see-interior/857076001/
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powerful imagery
 
Gooddeeds said:
-agree! It has an atmospheric museum feel. These sweet country folks created a beautiful exhibit!
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Perhaps the people can reach a compromise. Let the building be demolished, the location will be a reminder until the end of time. In addition, anyone wanting a more tangible reminder would very likely be able to keep the chair/chairs of their loved one.
 
I just need to hop in here & say that people handle grief differently. For myself, I absolutely HATE funerals. I do NOT visit grave sites. It does NOT give me comfort, it makes my pain even worse. I much prefer to remember my beloved family & friends as they were in life & all the good times, & even the bad times that we shared. I can & even have watched a loved one/ones die & feel a sense of relief that their earthly suffering is over. I mourn that they are no longer with me but am always thankful that they were in my life.
 
x_files said:
an article I read said until we are directly effected nothing will change due to the lack of empathy. scary thought, huh?
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It’s true though....this is how it is with almost everything. If it does not personally affect them, people generally don’t care.
 
human said:
I do not think violent video games are positive for any reason.

Why do you feel males in other countries are not shooting people all of the time? The same and even worse video games than in the US are available
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faw720 said:
I just need to hop in here & say that people handle grief differently. For myself, I absolutely HATE funerals. I do NOT visit grave sites. It does NOT give me comfort, it makes my pain even worse. I much prefer to remember my beloved family & friends as they were in life & all the good times, & even the bad times that we shared. I can & even have watched a loved one/ones die & feel a sense of relief that their earthly suffering is over. I mourn that they are no longer with me but am always thankful that they were in my life.
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I hate funerals too. Do you go to them? I’m almost to the point I can’t stand to.

ETA: weird how I quoted only one post, the second one, and it shows two.:thinking:
 
vmmking said:
I have not heard of this neurotransmitter test. I have heard of the DNA testing to find what meds are more likely to work and which ones may make it worse. But for some reason it's being poo-pooed a lot in articles because we don't have enough evidence yet that it works - but we do have anecdotal evidence. Well, if insurance paid for the darn test, we'd find out more, and it would be cost effective because it could avoid inpatient treatment and hospital trips when the meds go very wrong. Saves the patient years of 6 month experiments on this and that psych med.

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WOW! I hadn't heard of this test but that's pretty amazing. My opinion is that if such a test exists then the potential benefit should be well worth the cost of the test (even if it turns out to be a crapshoot --- because it's a crapshoot anyway).
 
vmmking said:
You can't stay away in a town that size. While we see a beautiful memorial (and, my God, those chairs are beautiful like that), these are people with PTSD - an entire town - and it may not be what's best for their psyche. This town needs to heal, and for many people, observing death dates, seeing reminders daily of the tragedy that changed their town, their lives, is going to trigger some.

We are not all the same. Some people observe death dates. I'm not one of them. It causes me more pain to concentrate on losses on the dates they happened. These people will be carrying that pain the rest of their lives as it is. Putting up reminders will not be a good thing for everyone. That's why people move to new houses and towns after tragedies. And many therapists will recommend such changes when people experience tragedy, so they can get on with their lives. They do not recommend hanging onto the pain with reminders.

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This is very true even within close families.
I have a good friend who has 5 daughters, her 4th was stillborn at full term.
My friend would love to have her picture on the wall, her husband cannot handle that.
So, she has an 8x10 in HER nightstand so she can look at it whenever she wants.
It's all about compromise.... but ultimately, when displaying something will HARM a victim... you err on the side of caution.

x_files said:
an article I read said until we are directly effected nothing will change due to the lack of empathy. scary thought, huh?
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Absolutely true. Just like nobody cares about injustice until it happens to them.

cujenn81 said:
WOW! I hadn't heard of this test but that's pretty amazing. My opinion is that if such a test exists then the potential benefit should be well worth the cost of the test (even if it turns out to be a crapshoot --- because it's a crapshoot anyway).
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Definitely, the time it would save. It also might pick up people like my brother, who react with lack of impulse control to certain meds and roll their car. (He's fine, it was a 1980's BMW. lol)
 
neesaki said:
I hate funerals too. Do you go to them? I’m almost to the point I can’t stand to.

ETA: weird how I quoted only one post, the second one, and it shows two.:thinking:
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I only go to funerals that I cannot possibly avoid. I just will my brain to go some place else........anywhere but where I am. If I ever started crying, I would never be able to stop. I'm able to accept death, make funeral arrangements, help others make arrangements, notify friends & family, & help others in any & every way I can. It's the funeral service itself that just sends me into a tailspin. Staring at a loved one in a casket & hearing the mournful music is almost more than I can take. I will never forget my father's funeral. I wanted a closed casket & the funeral director said, "But if you have a closed casket people will think there is something wrong with him." My reply was that there WAS something wrong with him; he was dead & that was about as wrong with someone as you could get. Because of my mother we came to a compromise. The casket was closed during the service, but it was opened after the service to allow viewing.
 
cujenn81 said:
WOW! I hadn't heard of this test but that's pretty amazing. My opinion is that if such a test exists then the potential benefit should be well worth the cost of the test (even if it turns out to be a crapshoot --- because it's a crapshoot anyway).
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I'm a big cheerleader for this test primarily because some people's systems can OVERREACT to certain meds, and it can send them off the rails. I've had many friends on depression meds experience this, one to the point of nearly being committed.

The DNA test shows 3 categories for you. 1- meds your system is likely to overreact to, 2- meds your system underreacts to (which would take very high doses to affect the person), and 3- meds your system is more likely to react to as expected.

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vmmking said:
I'm a big cheerleader for this test primarily because some people's systems can OVERREACT to certain meds, and it can send them off the rails. I've had many friends on depression meds experience this, one to the point of nearly being committed.

The DNA test shows 3 categories for you. 1- meds your system is likely to overreact to, 2- meds your system underreacts to (which would take very high doses to affect the person), and 3- meds your system is more likely to react to as expected.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
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A word of caution on that DNA test. It may be wonderful, but your insurance may not cover it. My daughter's doctor recommended that she take this test and everyone expected that it would be free or a $20 copay. It was a very unpleasant surprise when we received notice that insurance did not cover it, along with a bill for $3,000 or something ridiculous like that. We settled with them for less than that, but it still was painful.
 
Bill Carson said:
A word of caution on that DNA test. It may be wonderful, but your insurance may not cover it. My daughter's doctor recommended that she take this test and everyone expected that it would be free or a $20 copay. It was a very unpleasant surprise when we received notice that insurance did not cover it, along with a bill for $3,000 or something ridiculous like that. We settled with them for less than that, but it still was painful.
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Yup. I pointed that out in my first post about it. But, if you have a really great provider, they will research the kinds of tests available, and often be able to find an affordable one, and /or one who gives breaks based on income. With one company I know of, most people will qualify for 20 or 50 dollars total owed to that company.

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rosemadderlake said:
What do you do with the site of a mass shooting?

What a community chooses often says far more about the people and the place than about the crime.

Ten days after a gunman burst into the West Nickel Mines Amish School in Pennsylvania in the fall of 2006, killing five girls and injuring others, the local Amish community tore down the building. The spot soon became indistinguishable from the pastureland around it.

Months later, in the January cold, men from the community began building a new schoolhouse a few hundred yards away. There are no markers, no physical memorials of the tragedy that took place nearby.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...153ad47b549_story.html?utm_term=.d680acb5720d

---
I was humbled by the resolve of the Amish community when they tore down the school house just days after that tragic mass shooting. And, sites of mass killings have been handled in various different ways.

I know I would have a very difficult time going back to a place that symbolized such unimaginable terror. The memorial they created in the first baptist church just a week afterwards with the chairs, the roses, the voices is so moving. Considering the closeness of this church and community in Texas I am sure they will find their way in rebuilding their lives and memorializing their loved ones lost.
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Totally understandable to be fearful and uncomfortable to go back into the building. But it is also commendable to not allow evil to take something away from us. Since early last year our interim pastor was Dr Al Meredith, the pastor from Wedgewood Baptist where the shooting in 1999 took the lives of 7 people. Their experience was greatly blessed by their resolve to worship there the first Sunday following the Wed shooting.
From an article:
[FONT=&quot](Meredith told the congregation the disaster might produce some blessings. The church received 5,000 e-mails and had 30,000 "hits" on its Web site. Wedgwood church members said they hope to use the sudden rush of publicity to expand their fold.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"I've lived long enough to see what I thought was bad work for good," Meredith said. "This tragedy that the devil wanted to use to stop the people of the Lord has ended up strengthening us.")
He told us they received over 20,000 cards and they were much appreciated!
Here is where you can send a card to FBC Sutherland Springs if you wish:
First Baptist Church
PO Box 115
Sutherland Springs TX 78161
[/FONT]

Photo of the memorial at Wedgwood.
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Maybe SS can create something like this at their new building.
 

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MzOpinion8d said:
I think it all happened too fast. My question is, knowing he'd been told to stay away from the church, and knowing he'd shown up the previous Thursday for the fall festival dressed in black and acting weird, why didn't it occur to them to have someone keep watch during services just in case he came around?

I'm sure none of them thought he'd come in guns blazing, but they should have had an inkling he may want to disrupt services to make himself heard.
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I imagine many are blaming themselves. There was the couple who wouldn't take their eyes off him at the fall festival making sure he was not armed. I do not know how long it took but it was not an automatic weapon nor has it been said it had a bump stock to help him fire faster, in fact the armed citizen said he heard "pop, pop..." methodical fire and he reloaded 14 times firing 450 rounds! Not that fast.
 
ocgrad said:
I imagine many are blaming themselves. There was the couple who wouldn't take their eyes off him at the fall festival making sure he was not armed. I do not know how long it took but it was not an automatic weapon nor has it been said it had a bump stock to help him fire faster, in fact the armed citizen said he heard "pop, pop..." methodical fire and he reloaded 14 times firing 450 rounds! Not that fast.
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I heard that there are seven minutes of videotape that capture the shooter firing. It is really kind of (sadly) surprising that he wasn't able to kill more with 450 rounds and seven minutes. I don't know if that speaks to his incompetence or what. I'm sure he was hyped up with adrenaline. I've also read that these AR-type weapons aren't as lethal as you would think, especially at close range, because the ammo is made to fly with stability, so that the rounds hit and pass right through a human body instead of tumbling or expanding and doing more damage. That is why these weapons are prohibited for hunting deer and larger animals---because they don't have stopping power. That is also why the gunman was able to drive +/- 11 miles after being shot twice by the neighbor.
 
This article talks about the Teves family's No Notoriety campaign, after their son lost his life in the Colorado Theater shooting.

".......Since 2012, the family has launched a campaign to prevent media coverage from playing into the perpetrators’ craving for fame by spreading the shooters’ photographs, focusing on body counts and ranking different shootings against each other.

Over the past few years, the No Notoriety campaign has seen bipartisan progress, with endorsements from law enforcement groups and victims’ families, and some journalists pledging to abide by the principles of trying to use shooters’ names and images sparingly. Law enforcement officials in Sutherland Springs, Texas, last week announced they would follow a similar approach. “If you notice I use ‘shooter’ instead of the suspect’s name, we do not want to glorify him and what he’s done,” Freeman Martin, a spokesman for the Texas department of public safety, said last week.

But many media outlets still resist the “No Notoriety” principles, which Erik Wemple of the Washington Post has called “a public service, not some nefarious ‘glorification’ quest”......
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-enough-is-enough-my-son-would-still-be-alive
 
Bill Carson said:
I heard that there are seven minutes of videotape that capture the shooter firing. It is really kind of (sadly) surprising that he wasn't able to kill more with 450 rounds and seven minutes. I don't know if that speaks to his incompetence or what. I'm sure he was hyped up with adrenaline. I've also read that these AR-type weapons aren't as lethal as you would think, especially at close range, because the ammo is made to fly with stability, so that the rounds hit and pass right through a human body instead of tumbling or expanding and doing more damage. That is why these weapons are prohibited for hunting deer and larger animals---because they don't have stopping power. That is also why the gunman was able to drive +/- 11 miles after being shot twice by the neighbor.
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My husband said the same thing about not killing more than he did. Perhaps part of the time he was ranting.
It is legal to deer hunt in TX with an AR15. But a lot use an AR10.
 
Bill Carson said:
I heard that there are seven minutes of videotape that capture the shooter firing. It is really kind of (sadly) surprising that he wasn't able to kill more with 450 rounds and seven minutes. I don't know if that speaks to his incompetence or what. I'm sure he was hyped up with adrenaline. I've also read that these AR-type weapons aren't as lethal as you would think, especially at close range, because the ammo is made to fly with stability, so that the rounds hit and pass right through a human body instead of tumbling or expanding and doing more damage. That is why these weapons are prohibited for hunting deer and larger animals---because they don't have stopping power. That is also why the gunman was able to drive +/- 11 miles after being shot twice by the neighbor.
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He likely knew the church regularly videotaped its services considering the close connection with the church, his wife and her family. The ultimate height of despicable narcissism, knowing his massacre was being filmed. After LE has concluded their investigation, I sure hope the tape is destroyed so there's absolutely no chance it's ever leaked out to some gore site.
 
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