Laura Babcock Murder Trial 11.14.17 - Day 15

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WTF? :eek: So DM had problems lighting the incinerator on the night of July 21st, after he had been to the barn and picked up LB's body and put it in the incinerator. He text SS and they were putting it off until the next day until SS got to the hangar and was able to fire it up. Meanwhile LB's body was in there. I can't imagine SS wasn't suspicious of where they came up with an animal body already...and one wrapped in a blue tarp at that. Since when would a farmer warp an animal carcass in a tarp.

No doubt in my mind SS wouldn't have looked in the incinerator. I think the man knew what was going on, but was smart enough to not text about it...kept it for shop talk kwim. And conveniently SS lost his cell phone did he not? MOO.

ETA: And then they waited all day, until dark to light it up. I assume SS needed all the to repair it. Sick b@st@rds. MOO also.
 
swedie said:
WTF? :eek: So DM had problems lighting the incinerator on the night of July 21st, after he had been to the barn and picked up LB's body and put it in the incinerator. He text SS and they were putting it off until the next day until SS got to the hangar and was able to fire it up. Meanwhile LB's body was in there. I can't imagine SS wasn't suspicious of where they came up with an animal body already...and one wrapped in a blue tarp at that. Since when would a farmer warp an animal carcass in a tarp.

No doubt in my mind SS wouldn't have looked in the incinerator. I think the man knew what was going on, but was smart enough to not text about it...kept it for shop talk kwim. And conveniently SS lost his cell phone did he not? MOO.

ETA: And then they waited all day, until dark to light it up. I assume SS needed all the to repair it. Sick b@st@rds. MOO also.
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If this happened, I'm pretty sure his smell meter would be going off as well.
MOO

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matou said:
Whose burgundy Cadillac is that with Marlena in Mob Reporter part 11? Didn't Isho have a caddy he wanted to sell or is that Michalski's?
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Isn't that the Caddy MS was suppose to get? There is also a photo of AM in that same Caddy. IIRC there was information about MS and MM working on the maroon Caddy installing a sound system. MOO
 
gremlingrrl said:
A bored man-boy psychopath with no accountability, too much money and too few responsibilities? A loser who needed a hobby outside of chasing the next adrenaline rush, with a brain whose serotonin and dopamine levels were perpetually off-kilter as a result of the party that never ended? An entitled narcissist no one had ever successfully said "no" to?

(I'm not a psychologist, and I've never played one on tv.)
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Exactly. Killers don't need a motive to kill. Some people just do it because of the way events led up to one another and they literally go psycho and kill someone.

I agree drugs could have played a role, I was more thinking along the lines of they did too many drugs and it fried their brains. DM looks like a heavy meth user, and that stuff will make you crazy.
 
canadiangirl said:
If this happened, I'm pretty sure his smell meter would be going off as well.
MOO

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That's assuming they put her in it before trying to light it the first time? Did they use it at the farm or at the hangar? So much movement with these guys
 
matou said:
The Mob Reporter: WHAT THE JURY SAW: Laura Babcock Trial — “Preparing Eliminator” | What was on Millard’s computers 11

[video=youtube;HAZkGiO0J0Q]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAZkGiO0J0Q[/video]
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That pic of MM and the Caddy looks so sinister with the Eliminator and the trailer TBs truck was in (I think?) just in the background.

I can't recall if at the TB trial MM was asked what she had been told the Eliminator was for (pet cremation or otherwise)? Obviously she'd seen it...

Anyone know?
 
canadiangirl said:
If this happened, I'm pretty sure his smell meter would be going off as well.
MOO

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Well perhaps DM told him it was an animal carcass...but still. And what's interesting to note is DM text him wanting to know if it would be ready by a certain date as DM claimed he already had a couple requests for business. So ok then, maybe SS had no idea and just figured it was DM's first customer's stock in the incinerator. Either the guy SS is very smart (keeping all the nefarious stuff off his phone) or just plain stupid and naive. MOO.
 
swedie said:
Well perhaps DM told him it was an animal carcass...but still. And what's interesting to note is DM text him wanting to know if it would be ready by a certain date as DM claimed he already had a couple requests for business. So ok then, maybe SS had no idea and just figured it was DM's first customer's stock in the incinerator. Either the guy SS is very smart (keeping all the nefarious stuff off his phone) or just plain stupid and naive. MOO.
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Oh I agree with you.

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billandrew said:
So with the latest Mob Reporter video I was able to clean up the text messages for July 3-4 on the timeline. Some observations:

MM was at Maple Gate
It looks like MS and MM were both at Maple Gate during July 3, overnight to July 4, and throughout the day on July 4. Perhaps we'll hear more details of what happened in that time when MM gets on the stand?

The "heini"
IMO the present that DM left for MS at the top of the stairs was just a pack of beer.

Did MS have a clue what was happening that night (July 3)?
It seems that after picking up LB and bringing her back to Maple Gate, DM went back out again around 7:30pm. MS was still at Maple Gate and suggesting they get some food when DM returned. He had also asked for some change to get food. IMO it doesn't seem like MS is aware of or getting ready for a pending murder mission.

Was MS present for LB's murder?
There's a 5 hour window between when DM tells MS he's "on a mission, back in 1 hour," and when MS later asks, "Where u at?" The window is July 3 at 7:33pm to July 4 at 12:42am. Anything could have happened in that time, but it's difficult to tell whether MS was ever with DM.

Let's say DM returned to Maple Gate around 8:30pm, then "hit the vapes and tripped out for a bit", and then regained his senses around 1:00am. MS, expecting to have heard from DM earlier, was then asking "Where u at?" at 12:42am. So perhaps they never actually met up earlier.

Then, at 2am MS wants to talk to DM but DM says he's going to sleep and they'll talk in the morning. MS doesn't respond until 9am in the morning when he says, "Aight."

Based on all of this, it's not clear whether MS even saw DM in person during the evening of July 3 and through until the morning of July 4. IMO until we hear further evidence, MS could have a good argument to say he wasn't present if/when LB was killed. At this point I haven't heard any evidence to suggest that MS was involved in the planning/deliberation aspect, either.

DM does all the work
DM seems to be doing everything by himself on July 4. He rolled his first spliff, drove to Waterloo and the farm, and eventually returned to Maple Gate in the afternoon. Meanwhile, it seems MS was sleeping the whole time. DM texted MS, "Back before 4pm" and, "Left some dough on the coffee table in the basement," so if MS did return to Oakville that day, it likely wasn't until later in the evening.

Who pulled all-nighters?
At 2am DM told MS he was going to sleep and they'd talk in the morning. So it seems like DM did sleep that night. Or alternatively, he stayed awake but just said that to defer talking to MS until later. In either case, it puts distance between DM and MS for that time period.

If MS didn't get up until 3:20pm then it seems he didn't get much sleep. Was he just getting drunk in the basement with MM? From his 3:21pm text, "How's the spliff?", he seems to understand what that means. This suggests that either he was involved in killing LB, or DM filled him in about it at some point (say, in the morning).
Click to expand...

Great breakdown and theory billandrew. Wasn't there a text to DM from MS something along the line of "is she still here? or "is she up there?" on the morning of the 4th? The text read something like either LB or CN had spent the night. MOO.
 
Jealoushe said:
That's assuming they put her in it before trying to light it the first time? Did they use it at the farm or at the hangar? So much movement with these guys
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DM took the incinerator to the farm, pick up LB's remains and brought the incinerator back to the hangar from what it sounds. BUT the Dodge Caravan van now has me wondering if it wasn't used for transporting LB to the hangar. We may find out yet if her DNA is found in that van. MOO.
 
swedie said:
WTF? :eek: So DM had problems lighting the incinerator on the night of July 21st, after he had been to the barn and picked up LB's body and put it in the incinerator. He text SS and they were putting it off until the next day until SS got to the hangar and was able to fire it up. Meanwhile LB's body was in there. I can't imagine SS wasn't suspicious of where they came up with an animal body already...and one wrapped in a blue tarp at that. Since when would a farmer warp an animal carcass in a tarp.

No doubt in my mind SS wouldn't have looked in the incinerator. I think the man knew what was going on, but was smart enough to not text about it...kept it for shop talk kwim. And conveniently SS lost his cell phone did he not? MOO.

ETA: And then they waited all day, until dark to light it up. I assume SS needed all the to repair it. Sick b@st@rds. MOO also.
Click to expand...

How do we know her body was in the incinerator? I'm pretty sure he would have tested the incinerator first before putting LB's body in it. So, I highly doubt there was anything in the incinerator at that point.
 
Stratocaster said:
One question tho, wasn't it entered into cell tower ping evidence that MS's phone pinged along with DM's phone together on the early afternoon of the 4th when DM went mobile with LB already wrapped in the tarp?
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Doesn't mean MS was with his phone.
 
nuclearali said:
Does anyone else think that the idea of MS and MM "taking a bath together" is really odd? Especially in the middle of the afternoon? A dip in a hot tub or pool sure...but a bath? Is it possible that this is code for something else?
Click to expand...


I wondered if DM had a big Jacuzzi tub maybe.
 
billandrew said:
So with the latest Mob Reporter video I was able to clean up the text messages for July 3-4 on the timeline. Some observations:

MM was at Maple Gate
It looks like MS and MM were both at Maple Gate during July 3, overnight to July 4, and throughout the day on July 4. Perhaps we'll hear more details of what happened in that time when MM gets on the stand?

The "heini"
IMO the present that DM left for MS at the top of the stairs was just a pack of beer.

Did MS have a clue what was happening that night (July 3)?
It seems that after picking up LB and bringing her back to Maple Gate, DM went back out again around 7:30pm. MS was still at Maple Gate and suggesting they get some food when DM returned. He had also asked for some change to get food. IMO it doesn't seem like MS is aware of or getting ready for a pending murder mission.

Was MS present for LB's murder?
There's a 5 hour window between when DM tells MS he's "on a mission, back in 1 hour," and when MS later asks, "Where u at?" The window is July 3 at 7:33pm to July 4 at 12:42am. Anything could have happened in that time, but it's difficult to tell whether MS was ever with DM.

Let's say DM returned to Maple Gate around 8:30pm, then "hit the vapes and tripped out for a bit", and then regained his senses around 1:00am. MS, expecting to have heard from DM earlier, was then asking "Where u at?" at 12:42am. So perhaps they never actually met up earlier.

Then, at 2am MS wants to talk to DM but DM says he's going to sleep and they'll talk in the morning. MS doesn't respond until 9am in the morning when he says, "Aight."

Based on all of this, it's not clear whether MS even saw DM in person during the evening of July 3 and through until the morning of July 4. IMO until we hear further evidence, MS could have a good argument to say he wasn't present if/when LB was killed. At this point I haven't heard any evidence to suggest that MS was involved in the planning/deliberation aspect, either.

DM does all the work
DM seems to be doing everything by himself on July 4. He rolled his first spliff, drove to Waterloo and the farm, and eventually returned to Maple Gate in the afternoon. Meanwhile, it seems MS was sleeping the whole time. DM texted MS, "Back before 4pm" and, "Left some dough on the coffee table in the basement," so if MS did return to Oakville that day, it likely wasn't until later in the evening.

Who pulled all-nighters?
At 2am DM told MS he was going to sleep and they'd talk in the morning. So it seems like DM did sleep that night. Or alternatively, he stayed awake but just said that to defer talking to MS until later. In either case, it puts distance between DM and MS for that time period.

If MS didn't get up until 3:20pm then it seems he didn't get much sleep. Was he just getting drunk in the basement with MM? From his 3:21pm text, "How's the spliff?", he seems to understand what that means. This suggests that either he was involved in killing LB, or DM filled him in about it at some point (say, in the morning).
Click to expand...

BBM I agree with you that up until this point, it seems MS has no clue what DM is doing. However, being as broke as MS is, I think if he knew DM had drugs, he would want to share. If MS has no money, why wouldn't he want to join him to smoke up? Friends (or brothers as MS called DM) seem to share and pass it around.
 
Oreck said:
I thought LB's phone was thrown away at 11:00 AM a half an hour from Dellen's house.
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I REALLY hope the Crown lays this out neatly for the jury in their closing, because we are this confused about pings and locations of phones, I imagine the jury is too.
 
andreww said:
MM will be the same vapid girl she was when she testified at TBs trial. She will know nothing, just like the rest of them.
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I agree with you, to a point. We have to remember that two cases were almost intwined, so maybe these people testifying knew stuff, but weren't able to answer completely without bringing up the "other case" respectively. We've seen this with the police, forensics, and the cast of friends and acquaintances. I'm NOT giving excuses for these people, and maybe they were just being difficult witnesses, but it can't be easy to testify about one trial without bringing in evidence of the other. IMO.
 
Satchie said:
Could be as simple as he didn't want to sleep on it, after what had happened. Might remind him of what he did, when he was lying on it.
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Considering he had TB's key on his key ring and wanted to drive the truck after what he did, I don't think he would case about a soiled mattress.
 
Hi just jumping on to say another huge thank you to all links and comments. I feel like a bit of a cheat only coming into this at trial. But really appreciate everyone. The gaps filled makes me feel as though I have read along the whole time.
My very basic knowledge so far - I don't feel they have as yet shown MS for M1 at this stage more like assessor after the fact. Here's hoping MM has lots to say


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I wasn't able to follow along much at all on Tuesday, so catching up now on the tweets and live-blog.. and now here.. I noticed in one part where it said a blue tarp was found crumpled in the barn - but then I saw another part by another tweeter, that there was a statement saying grommets were found in the incinerator. So does it seem that the blue tarp (presumably wrapping the 'spliff') was put into the incinerator, or..... was removed first? TY!!
 
swedie said:
WTF? :eek: So DM had problems lighting the incinerator on the night of July 21st, after he had been to the barn and picked up LB's body and put it in the incinerator. He text SS and they were putting it off until the next day until SS got to the hangar and was able to fire it up. Meanwhile LB's body was in there. I can't imagine SS wasn't suspicious of where they came up with an animal body already...and one wrapped in a blue tarp at that. Since when would a farmer warp an animal carcass in a tarp.

No doubt in my mind SS wouldn't have looked in the incinerator. I think the man knew what was going on, but was smart enough to not text about it...kept it for shop talk kwim. And conveniently SS lost his cell phone did he not? MOO.

ETA: And then they waited all day, until dark to light it up. I assume SS needed all the to repair it. Sick b@st@rds. MOO also.
Click to expand...

SS 'replaced' his cellphone I believe, from memory.. also may have replaced his wife's.. at the time I think he said he finally had a chance to go to the store to change phones (I believe it may have been the day DM told all of the employees not to show up at the hangar the day after TB was murdered)... will look it up...
 
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