IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #74

minazoe · Nov 14, 2017

thats a good question, Steleheart. in response to what he was wearing when menacing question....

Boxer · Nov 14, 2017

Shiressleuth said:
9 months on. :thinking:

Someone was asking about a pic of DN fishing in a boat on a river and where it might have been. There are a few videos and pics people have put on the web and it looks like it could be the Tippecanoe or Wabash river (Tippecanoe is a tributary of the Wabash). Some of the banks look very similar. Anyone familiar with those rivers could perhaps take a look if the poster can link it and post it again? I am particularly thinking it may be the Tippecanoe State Park as we know State Parks are popular with DN.

http://heavy.com/news/2017/09/daniel-nations-colorado-hatchet-man-delphi-indiana-murders-photos/

I have looked at a lot of boats. Corwin is one brand that has that square style in back but not quite a match.

The reason it has importance is that the main route from towns just west of Indianapolis (Marinsville, Zionsville, Greenwood) to the Tippecanoe area is through Delphi.

sleuther0192837465 · Nov 14, 2017

Coming out of lurker mode... Witnesses surely would have IDd DN by now. So if DN is BG, why no charges yet? It just doesnt make sense to me. AJMOO

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Ember123 · Nov 14, 2017

Boxer said:
Rottmom in an earlier post noted that the Amish working outside wear a blue snap windbreaker jacket in the area.

I did a search of amish windbreaker snaps. And this jacket was the first result in the search.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/196821446196553478/

Very interesting jacket and I also found it interesting when one new poster likened one of DN's mugshots to be Amish-like in grooming. That one mug DOES stand out. Think he ever worked among them, got jacket, was later kicked out or just moved on, keeping the threads?? Or if DN is NOT BG, think BG could be a coach of some sort? Or Amish??
With the retirement announcement and all, I am growing discouraged but don't want this thread to fizzle out and the girls be forgotten.

kkdj · Nov 14, 2017

If DN is BG and if they do have DN's dna from the crime scene they would still need to have the evidence that DN was the murderer. There might be more people's dna than just his.

mtnlites · Nov 14, 2017

kkdj said:
If DN is BG and if they do have DN's dna from the crime scene they would still need to have the evidence that DN was the murderer. There might be more people's dna than just his.

If they found his DNA at the crime scene then I really think that he would be charged. It's more likely that his defense attorney would try to prove that the DNA got there some other way than for LE to hold back and not take action.

ReggieHammond · Nov 14, 2017

sleuther0192837465 said:
Coming out of lurker mode... Witnesses surely would have ID’d DN by now. So if DN is BG, why no charges yet? It just doesn’t make sense to me. AJMOO

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I agree. An eyewitness placing him on the trails that day, plus his DNA at the crime scene, is not only enough to bring charges, but most likely enough to get a conviction also. I don't think DN is the guy...BG has always looked older to me.

mtnlites · Nov 14, 2017

ReggieHammond said:
I agree. An eyewitness placing him on the trails that day, plus his DNA at the crime scene, is not only enough to bring charges, but most likely enough to get a conviction also. I don't think DN is the guy...BG has always looked older to me.

I think there might be some confusion regarding the role of LE and the role of the prosecutor. With national attention on this case, I am sure LE would love to make an arrest. With evidence like you said, I can hardly see them refraining from one. They need to charge somebody with this, and they know that. LE doesn't "build a case", that's the job of the DA's office. If they work together then the DA will often advise LE on what may or may not constitute as enough evidence to make the case winable, but DNA evidence and an eyewitness would normally suffice. Once the case went to trial, the defense attorney could argue away at whatever he/she wanted.

sleuther0192837465 · Nov 14, 2017

ReggieHammond said:
I agree. An eyewitness placing him on the trails that day, plus his DNA at the crime scene, is not only enough to bring charges, but most likely enough to get a conviction also. I don't think DN is the guy...BG has always looked older to me.

Im so conflicted by BGs age. BG looks older in one video still & younger in the other. I will admit, when I saw those images for the very first time, it looked like 2 different people. The shadows around his face when his hood/hat is up/on, make him look older (40-50 yrs old) When the hood/hat/ is down/off, he looks younger (35-40 yrs old) MOO

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RIP Meagan + Johnny · Nov 14, 2017

sleuther0192837465 said:
I’m so conflicted by BG’s age. BG looks older in one video still & younger in the other. I will admit, when I saw those images for the very first time, it looked like 2 different people. The shadows around his face when his hood/hat is up/on, make him look older (40-50 yrs old) When the hood/hat/ is down/off, he looks younger (35-40 yrs old) MOO

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Hi sleuther!

In some of DN’s photos he looks like more than 2 different people.
Still not saying for sure that it’s him.
JMO.

Nancy1954 · Nov 14, 2017

Some people look older than they really are..and some people look younger than they really are.. I think that BG looks to be in his late 30's..early 40's. I don't think that DN is the guy either.

Bus_face · Nov 14, 2017

sleuther0192837465 said:
Coming out of lurker mode... Witnesses surely would have IDd DN by now. So if DN is BG, why no charges yet? It just doesnt make sense to me. AJMOO

Welcome back, I've been absent from here for a good while myself, but this is such a unique and tragic case. I want to apologize for being caustic and irritated with some posters back in the fall. I now realize how broad the audience this case has. If you keep scrolling i won't blame you but,

-It isn't DN, or they would have moved in by now, it sucks. I'm sorry but a lot of ppl seem to be in RL mode all over again.
-I'm glad ppl -at least recently in this forum - are focused on the jacket, it looks like its two sizes too big for the guy, the way the sleeves fit especially. And very sheer like barely a decent windbreaker.
-Personally I have less faith in the sketch as time goes by
-I find it odd there hasn't been much mention of a vehicle from LE. The guy did not turn into a ghost or bird and leave apparently completely clean.
- The connections to the Iowa case are really uncanny and frightening.
-Someone knows, someone definitely knows, and the reward $ hasn't gotten them over the top. I wonder what will eventually do it.

-the youtube videos regarding this case have been generally very informative and you can tell how much the locals are ticked off this happened in their area and how bad they want this freak caught.

If you're stuck on RL or DN, I look forward to you telling me how wrong I was if either of them turn out to be involved, because that will be great news. Until then, that seems to be a complete tail-chasing and time could be better spent tightening up the timeline and finding the video of this guy at the gas station or wherever he was earlier on that day.

ocgrad · Nov 14, 2017

sleuther0192837465 said:
Im so conflicted by BGs age. BG looks older in one video still & younger in the other. I will admit, when I saw those images for the very first time, it looked like 2 different people. The shadows around his face when his hood/hat is up/on, make him look older (40-50 yrs old) When the hood/hat/ is down/off, he looks younger (35-40 yrs old) MOO

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First I admit I do not have all the skills to work with photos that some talented folks on here do, but with my limited ability I have matched the photos up and I believe the earliest one the FBI stopped using quickly and even the next one also in the shadows were distorted so they are somewhat squashed for lack of a better word, making him look heavier and thicker. And I think that makes him look older. Due to the work they did trying to take it from video and enhance.

Ember123 · Nov 14, 2017

margarita25 said:
Where did DN get his weed? And when last around the 13th? I hate to even ask this re: I am pro pot/mmj, etc, and could care less about weed but in this instance considering we are discussing a double homicide...we talk about awareness space, rossmo's etc, I'm all about data points. I don't care who sold him weed normally But if it puts him at/near the scene...

Hope that made sense.

Never had heard of that Ross Theory... Thanks for mentioning! I Google it... Interesting!!!

kkdj · Nov 14, 2017

mtnlites said:
If they found his DNA at the crime scene then I really think that he would be charged. It's more likely that his defense attorney would try to prove that the DNA got there some other way than for LE to hold back and not take action.

If there is more than just his DNA there (ie others DNA also), what would they charge him with? I'm just saying (thinking) they would need more corroborating evidence to charge him with the murders.

margarita25 · Nov 14, 2017

Shiressleuth said:
Happens to me a lot. Hence I try not to do very long posts.

Rsbm

(I will periodically do a "select all" and "copy" just in case...)

margarita25 · Nov 14, 2017

Niner said:
Just an FYI Hatfield is a he, but there IS a Mrs. Hatfield! :giggle:

( He iiiiiisssss???? All these years I thought I was talking to a she!!! :biggrin: )

mtnlites · Nov 14, 2017

kkdj said:
If there is more than just his DNA there, what would they charge him with? I'm just saying (thinking) they would need more corroborating evidence to charge him with the murders.

That's exactly what I have been saying all along with my posts and why I don't believe DN is BG. I don't think there is ANYTHING there tying him to the murders. DNA, depending on where it was, would at least be a start, and enough to hold him on. They found a dead body buried in my kids' godfather's yard and they brought him in on murder charges. The only "evidence" was that the body was found on his farm. (He was later cleared and the charges dropped.) People have been brought in on murder charges for much less than DNA found on a victim. Other charges, depending on where the DNA was found, could be sexual assault. I am not even going to speculate further, as I do not think DN is involved.

Ember123 · Nov 14, 2017

Savoy6 said:
Someone help me out with this. I initially thought the similarity between the 2 cases was the sketch of BG and DN characteristics. But now I see that El Paso county Sheriff believes and states that there are MANY similarities. This implies to me that the Sheriff has inside knowledge of the Delphi case. "El Paso County Sheriff spokesman Jacque Kirby reportedly told Denvers KCNC-TV[FONT=ProximaNova, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Roboto, Arial, sans-serif] that there are many similarities between the cases they are investigating and the deaths of the two Indiana teens. However, she declined to release additional information." [/FONT]https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...er-of-teen-hikers_us_59cd579de4b06791bb0f6e90[FONT=ProximaNova, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Roboto, Arial, sans-serif]. Besides the obvious like the murder took place on a trail what could possibly be these MANY similarities? I can only assume that there were details at Tim Watkins crime scene that somehow could possibly link to Libby and Abby? I can't forget the word "MANY" similarities. What could those be?[/FONT]

Hatchet cuts or a certain mark or symbol left on a body with a hatchet?

margarita25 · Nov 14, 2017

newredtabby said:
Yes, and yes. The striking surface WOULD CHANGE if sharpened with a grinder. Both shape and size would be altered, and most importantly, the angle of the cutting surface would be changed. The shape and size of the rest of the tool is irrelevant.

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Yes and NO. Obviously the surface is altered with grinding. You are missing my point. There are many factors which go into tool mark analysis. It seems Steleheart had similar thoughts and was able to explain it much more clearly:

Steleheart said:
I lost my post trying to respond.

N E Way... Yes, IMO sharpening and grinding would change any obvious "tool marks" in the blade, however the overall dimensions of the hatchet would stay the same. For forensics, AFAIK, tool marks are more visible in bone than in soft tissue.
The size of a cut in soft tissue might still hold some forensic value. Different hatchets have different dimensions.
The length of the cut, the width of the cut and the angle of the blade should all be consistent I would think.
I found a picture of the parts of a hatchet and I think the dimensions of those parts would be helpful in identifying or matching it.

IN - Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi, 13 Feb 2017 #74

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