Found Deceased TX - Sherin Mathews, 3, Richardson, 7 Oct 2017 #7 *Arrests*

vmmking said:

It feels like the unfounded speculation on Sini being a victim of abuse/coercion is painting a picture of "poor her." She is getting so much more benefit of the doubt, despite the horror of the crime, than before we knew she would be charged with child endangerment, and more so than I've seen happen in most other cases I'm following.

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I agree. I feel bad enough for the benefit of the doubt I gave her before this happened, she definitely doesn't deserve anymore.

vmmking said:

So we have no idea when they started the process. (I would think it would be odd to start it before the child was born, though.)

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I was thinking the same thing. Wouldn't the kids also be on a waiting list? Surely there were other children on the list before Sherin as they were already born!

MarisaS1985 said:

I edited and added the time with links. But, if LE's correction is correct (LOL) and Older Sister is also 3 years old. It seems that the 2-3 year time frame could definitely mean they began the process, found out they were pregnant, and decided to proceed but have their child first, this IMO would explain how Sherin was also 3 and slightly younger as if they had began the first part and then stopped before matching, Sherin would have been about a year old when they were matched, and their older daughter would have been slightly older. Sherin was about 2 when she was brought home, can't recall if it was before or after her birthday, but I think that allows for the 2-3 year timeline to fit fairly well. Again just me speculating!

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Is it possible that Sherin is 2 and not 3? If both girls were the same age, then Sherin is extremely tiny. In photos and videos, Sherin barely reaches her sister's shoulders. That's very small for a 3 year old.

vmmking said:

I'm just confused because I thought it had been established that India only adopts to outside countries if the child is somewhat special needs. Therefore, it seems to me that this process might be quite different from where you begin it in other countries, waiting for a baby to become available.

And it was stated as a fact that the process began before either child was born, so I was asking if that's what the OP meant and how we knew that. I can't find a thing online that sources that information. All I can find is that they specifically wanted that particular child - Sherin. So this information seems suspect to me.

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You are right. They chose Sherin! So how does that work? Do they give prospestive parents a list of children available and the parents pick the child?

Margo/Mom said:

Last night I did some browsing into the Lisa Steinberg death by abuse.

Multiple unique factors, not the least of which was the hallmark of being the first wholly televised trial.

Hedda Nussbaum bore the physical scars of severe abuse--including multiple broken bones and resulting physical impairments. She lost employment owing to her frequent absences from the abuse. Severe PTSD. Brainwashing to the extent of believing that Steinberg had superhuman healing powers. Based on interviews over the years, it appears likely that this woman's mental health will forever be as impaired as her physical body. That is, progress, but never wholeness.

This may have been one of the first (certainly the first highly-publicized) cases in which a woman victim of abuse was not charged as being complicit in the abuse of a child (actually children--a boy survived) owing to the syndrome associated with being an abuse victim. And feminists were deeply divided in their judgment. Some regarded this as recognition of a woman's issue that needed examination. Others regarded this as being an old-school view of women as being weak and needing protection.

In this case, I remain agnostic as to whether Sini Mathews is an abuse victim, an abuser, or an enabler and complicit in abuse leading to the death of her daughter. There are still a lot of facts out that that we don't know, many of which are already known to LE. But, I see nothing to date that can rule out the theory that Sini could be a victim.

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And I see nothing that can rule it in.

Grouchymom said:

Yes, that was 30 years ago, just about the time people were just beginning to understand the mechanics and effects of Domestic Violence (I personally think dv minimizes the issue). Men had been allowed to treat women as their property. By law a husband could not rape his wife. Law enforcement didn’t respond to “domestic calls” or if they did they warned the wife not to do whatever had made him angry again, or they said they couldn’t do anything because they didn’t see who started it. Women’s shelters were just getting started and they were overflowing, poorly supplied and easy for him to find.

”Barefoot and pregnant” was still hanging on. Wifes were just being allowed to have credit of their own. A woman getting her tubes tied required her husbands written consent. Homes and vehicles were still regularly only in the husbands name. (A wife could get her name on deed or title with his permission) Going directly to the prosecutors office with fresh wounds and pictures from previous incents got nothing but, ‘I’’m sorry”.

If women were fortunate enough to access that last flicker of free will and hope and escape, law enforcement would notify the husband if they found the vehicle that a wife left in and allow him to take it, even if the woman’s name was on the title. The police looked the other way while the wife was terrorized. A husband could have his wife committed for 30 days with just his signature.

Stalking laws were just beginning but were rarely applied when the stalker was a husband or ex-husband. Even if a police officer heard the wife's life threatened, they responded with, “we can’t do anything until he actually does something, and then we can consider him a possible suspect. A restraining order wasn’t worth the paper it was written on. The husband or ex-husband could show up at school and take the children with impunity. Landlords were hesitant to rent to a wife without her husbands consent and once divorced it didn’t get much better. Punishing dead beat dads was just beginning to happen with any regularity but he had to be 3 months in arrears to get any help. A court order was counted as income recieved whether you recieved it or not.

How do I know? It happened to me. That was my life my story, In 1989 I escaped with my daughter (who he threatened to kill in front of me to hurt me) I don’t want sympathy. I survived. I wasn’t better than those who didn’t, I was luckier. I was lucky because that fateful day his guns were upstairs and I heard him loading them. I was able to get my child out the door and into our secret place before he came downstairs loaded and ready to kill. I didn’t have time to get out too, so I headed toward him to buy her precious time to hide. When I lied about where she went, he left to find her after knocking me to the ground with the butt of his rifle. Once he left armed to locate his own daughter, I retrieved her and left. I ran and didn’t stop until there were several states between us. We were stalked for years and through several states. I have lived in my car, eaten restaurant ketchup for spaghetti sauce and potted meat sandwichs to survive. My daughter never went hungry and we survived. I am much stronger for it.

I don’t think Sini was abused. I do think she and WM acted in concert, to leave her alone and to dispose of the body. I am not sure who actually caused her death or how but if I am wrong and she was abused I hope she can get the help she will need and I too certainly hope we have progressed past 1987 and we place the blame where it lies the abuser.

JMHO

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That there the way you did everything you could for your child is how I would expect ANY mother to react. I know this doesn't happen in most cases though. I cannot understand how any mother would not protect a child. The thing is, even if sini has been a victim of domestic violence she has been free of Wesley and still not said anything. I know some victims don't talk about it but she had more incentive than most. She could have spoken up to keep custody of her daughter. I cannot see a reason why she would not put it all on Wesley if it were true. I think she may be keeping quiet because so far Wesley is taking all the blame and if she lies about him, then maybe he will then tell the truth about sini's involvement.

You are one strong women grouchymom. Xxxxx

Riice said:

Same sex as that of the biological offspring means that historically if you had a daughter you couldnt adopt a female and vice versa... but now you can

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Ok, thanks. That's odd to me that it would have been an issue either way.

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What a survivor GrouchyMom! Wonderful resilience of you and your daughter. Outsmart and flee. Ditto to post above, strength through love wins the day. Respect!


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edimmu said:

Is it possible that Sherin is 2 and not 3?
old.

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Just my guess on the short life of Sherin before 06-10-2017. Note: Not a timeline. JMO.

14-07-2014 Born (estimated when placed in the orphanage )
14-02-2015 Found abandoned in Gaya by a local (The orphanage reported this date/ This was stated on its FB page and at least one news report when the child adopted)
**-02-2015 : Sent to Nalanda then to Kumari's Nalanda Mother Teresa Anath Seva Ashram in Bihar by the end of 02-2015
**- 06-2015: The couple met the child in person, approximately mid of 2015, probably June, and legally adopted her /or documented the process/ the action at a local police station there (a brief story on a website/ newspaper). I noticed the date is "Publish Date:Fri, 24 Jun 2016 01:01 AM (IST) | Updated Date:Fri, 24 Jun 2016 01:01 AM (IST)"

From June 2015 to November the same year: The child was still at the same orphanage * "....to put Saraswati on the phone so he could hear her charming baby talk.
**-11-2015: The adoption has been finalized
**- 11-2015: The couple took the child to the husband's family home in Kerala for a week or two (a news report citing neighbours)
From the previous source ( :
"... spent from February to November 2015 in Kumari' custody."
"She left at around Chhath in 2015," recalls Kumari.
Note: Chhath of 2015 "began on 17-11 and ended on 18-11"

17-08-2016 to 13-07-2017 :
Follow-up reports conducted in 2016 and 2017 :
"The four reports submitted recorded the girl's one-month, three-month, half-yearly and annual progress after she was placed with the adoptive family in the US.
These were submitted to CARA on September 17, 2016, October 21, 2016 and then January 11 and July 13 this year."

​OT

FOX NEWS FIRST: Charles Manson dead

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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/11/2...on-dead-tax-reforms-gop-senator-holdouts.html

Charles Manson, leader of murderous '60s cult, dead at 83

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http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/20/us/charles-manson-dead/index.html
​Now that was EVIL personified!!! Good Riddance. He wasted enough of our oxygen.

CookieM said:

rbbm
Probably because
(a) the story about her being left home alone was leaving out an important detail that she wasn't alive when they went out to dinner
or
(b) any other normal human being would know that it was WRONG to leave a 3 year old alone in the house all alone while the rest of the family goes to dinner! She couldn't rightly say: "Hey can you swing by the house for me? We are out at Chili's and need you to check in on our 3 year old who is home all alone. We'll be back in two shakes of a lamb's tale -- we're just finishing our dinners and about to order dessert." The person would say: What the HELL?? Are you CRAZY?

moo

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Yes, this is basically what I had surmised myself in the last portion of my quote that was not bolded....

....Either she also didn't have a problem with leaving Sherin alone or as others have mentioned as a possibility, Sherin was already dead.....and she was dining out with her husband and other daughter. Nice!

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My point wasn't that she didn't know it was wrong to leave a 3 year old child alone while dining out for 1.5 hours, but rather that if she had left Sherin because she was an abused woman who was forced to leave her (as others have mentioned could be a possibility) the child's safety should still be a mother's priority.... Even if the person you call to check on Sherin in turn thinks you are crazy/terrible etc....she should have still put Sherin's safety above how others would view her behavior....she did not so I don't buy the abused wife story or give Sini a pass if that is infact the case.

Originally Posted by Riice Same sex as that of the biological offspring means that historically if you had a daughter you couldnt adopt a female and vice versa... but now you can


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vmmking said:

Ok, thanks. That's odd to me that it would have been an issue either way.

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I believe that this rule was intended to prevent people from only adopting boys leaving the less desired females languishing in orphanages. But that is just my opinion.

This will be very unpopular but I have to say it anyway.

I do not understand why we allow people to adopt children from foreign countries when we have so many kids here that need families.

I especially do not understand why we allow the adoption of special needs foreign children when we have so many special needs kids in need of families here.

There, I have said it.

It is my opinion.

If she was in her own country and murdered this child, what would become of her there?

TeaTime said:

This will be very unpopular but I have to say it anyway.

I do not understand why we allow people to adopt children from foreign countries when we have so many kids here that need families.

I especially do not understand why we allow the adoption of special needs foreign children when we have so many special needs kids in need of families here.

There, I have said it.

It is my opinion.

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There are actually adoption subsidies for people who are willing to adopt SNAP kids in the US. Special Needs often just means the kid is not an infant.

Here's Kentucky's program. At the bottom you can see all the different kinds of support offered you adoptive parents.

https://adopt.ky.gov/learnMore/Pages/snap.aspx


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Grouchymom said:

I went into my hoarders folders of info to find some info on the adoption process for persons with OCI cards and the estimated time frames but I got side tracked.


State Dept.
https://travel.state.gov/content/ad...-information/learn-about-a-country/india.html
and Cara
http://www.cara.nic.in/PDF/Regulation_english.pdf

I ran across this booklet that caught my attention. It is a wonderful resource for every imaginable statistic on Child Abuse and Neglect in the USA through 2015.

It is in pdf format so you can download it or open it in a browser or pdf compatible program or app. I extracted page 61 which shows child fatalities by age and by perpatrator relationship. I wish there were no need for such a compilation but si Che there is I wanted to share.


https://drive.google.com/open?id=13o-iuL7EyFB0Ex8IUbkGdLucht7k_w4_

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Thank you for the very interesting link about the statistics/data on Maltreatment of Children in 2015. I have been reading it since you graciously linked it for all of us.

I refuse to call you Grouchymom though because I find you to be a very sweet,compassionate, caring person, and I am sure you are the same as a Mom. So I will just refer to you as G-Mom if you don't mind.

I had not read the latest 2015 Maltreatment of Children. I have read this site in the previous years. It really is an eye opener on how many children we have in our country who are being grossly maltreated whether from neglect, and all sorts of abuses including murder. And the saddest part is there are so many more that are not reported nor the abuser nor victim/s known to the police or CPS.

This excerpt below is from part of your link and I found it very interesting and wonder just how many really know the facts on maltreated children and who their perpetrators are more likely to be.

We certainly don't ever see the media report on this data/facts about who the perps really are who are severely abusing or grossly neglecting the children the most in our country. They seem to shy away from informing everyone on what they really need to know.

Perpetrator Relationship

Victim data were analyzed by relationship of victims to their perpetrators. A victim may have been maltreated multiple times by the same perpetrator or by different combinations of perpetrators (e.g.,

Mother alone, mother and non-parent(s), mother and father). In addition, a perpetrator who maltreats multiple children may have different relationships with the victims (parent, neighbor, etc.).

The parent(s) could have acted together, acted alone, or acted with up to two other people to maltreat the child.

Approximately 70.0 percent of victims were maltreated by a mother, either acting alone (40.9 percent) or with a father and/or non-parent (28.5 percent).

More than 13 percent (13.3 %) of victims were maltreated by a perpetrator who was not the child’s parent. The largest categories in the
non-parent group were male relative, male partner of parent, and “other.” (See table 3–15 and related notes.)

***************************

The 70% (2015 data) of mothers who commit maltreatment against their children has increased. The last time I read this data was for the year of 2012, iirc, and at that time it was around 59% of mothers who maltreated their children. They were still in the top group even back then, but now it has risen even higher it appears from the 2015 data you have supplied.

Sadly, I think Sini falls into the 70% category.

Thanks again G-Mom, and I am off to read more of the data you have provided. However, I should really be doing my baking, and cleaning preparing for our huge family on TG day. :lol:

A narcissist adopts a needy child to get applause from friends and family. Then gets angry when the child misbehaves after all you did for her.

chissus said:

A narcissist adopts a needy child to get applause from friends and family. Then be angry when the child misbehaves after all you did for her.

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I am so confused about Sherin's real disabilities, if any. The orphanage said the only thing wrong with Sherin was she had one eye smaller than the other one. They said she was very playful running around happy and she was chatty. They also said she loved to drink her milk.

None of that supports Sherin was a child with serious disabilities, and needs.

I would like to hear from Sherin's daycare teachers or someone outside of the home that would be unbiased because I don't trust anything being said by her parents.

IMO

TeaTime said:

This will be very unpopular but I have to say it anyway.

I do not understand why we allow people to adopt children from foreign countries when we have so many kids here that need families.

I especially do not understand why we allow the adoption of special needs foreign children when we have so many special needs kids in need of families here.

There, I have said it.

It is my opinion.

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I can’t address why it is allowed but, I can address why it is so popular and I believe prohibiting overseas adoptions would not significantly increase domestic adoptions at this time. Let’s first eliminate people like the Mathews who adopt from their country of origin and who are acquiring a child who will fit in with the family optics.

Adoption in the US is not for the faint of heart. Adoption of newborns or young babies without special needs is expensive, a lengthy wait time, and an incredible risk of protracted lawsuits when a biological parent, even after the legal time limit expires, decides they want the child back. Our courts have repeatedly gone against state laws and allowed biological parents not only to sue but to win back the custody of a child already in an adoptive home with a fnalized adoption leaving the adoptive family with a broken heart and a mountain of legal bills.

Not so long ago a couple in South Carolina went through a very public and expensive legal battle to keep the adoptive daughter they dearly loved. This innocent child was removed from the adoptive home where she had been since birth and placed with a father she had never met for an extended length of time before finally being returned to the parents. They fortunately were able to mobilize the resources to take this case all the way to the US Supreme Court, something the average family could not afford. That family has been able to stay out of the public eye since the return of their daughter so we haven’t seen what issues this child stills has from the public tug of war. How this affected the child psychologically is yet to be seen. And the family lost years with their child and the child lost important developmental and bonding time with the parents.

As as you stated there are an over abundance of special needs children in this country who need a forever home. Obviously most of those children are adoptable through local social service agencies across the country. Most of these children have been removed from homes where they have suffered from varying degrees of abuse or neglect. This leaves these children with needs not everyone is willing or capable of dealing with. Add into the equation the current political fad of requiring “open” adoptions. It is difficult at best to be understanding or compassionate to the biological parents when you watch the lasting effects of abuse or neglect on a child you love day in and day out. Now some departments require you continue to allow the cause of your child’s pain in their lives and yours perpetually.

I know thiis will sound cold and unfeeling but fortunately for my Katie, her bio made it easier for her when she passed away from an overdose not long after her adoption. I still check the offender sites on a monthly basis to keep apprised of the whereabouts of the remaining bio family. While we were in foster/pre adoptive mode the bio brought a registered child sex offender to our home for her visitation. Once the adoption was final I felt the need to leave the home I loved and had put so much sweat equity into to keep her safe.

The way the system is working currently is not appealing to the average person. Those not agreeable to foster/pre-adoption placements get shuffled to the back of the line as children are usually offered to the foster placement when the child becomes legally cleared for adoption in an attempt to minimize the effects of yet another relocation on the child. While agreeing to foster/pre—adopt placement means you may have several children come and either be retuned to the parents or sent to family after a year or longer. You will be in limbo until the required permanency hearing near the 1 year mark.

Don’t get me wrong I wish more people had the requisite fortitude to provide forever homes to children domestically. I also don’t want children placed with people not fully prepared to deal with the challenges that come with domestic adoption. There is also a desire by many that the child they adopt and love will always be part of their family but in reality most older children adopted through social services will run not walk back to the family that abused or neglected them originally. That is a fear that sends some people overseas where once a child is adopted they do not have to adopt the entire family too or risk losing the child who becomes part of your heart.

JMHO

oceanblueeyes said:

I am so confused about Sherin's real disabilities, if any. The orphanage said the only thing wrong with Sherin was she had one eye smaller than the other one. They said she was very playful running around happy and she was chatty. They also said she loved to drink her milk.

None of that supports Sherin was a child with serious disabilities, and needs.

I would like to hear from Sherin's daycare teachers or someone outside of the home that would be unbiased because I don't trust anything being said by her parents.

IMO

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There is so much we don't know about little Sherin , absolutely nothing about her bio parents / family ... health ( behavioral , mental and physical ) and we can only assume her needs were barely met ( ? ) prior to her discovery as a possibly 6 month old infant .
That said, all the changes she faced would have challenged any child .
Somewhere I read ( a couple threads back ? ) that she had become fearful ? I think I recall that correctly, sadly enough that stands out to me . Brings back tortuous memories of my grandson and his challenges, and the mountains that had to be climbed to overcome those issues.
As much as I ( and all of us ) are waiting for the COD and balance of testing reports, I think there's going to be a lot more tears shed in this case .