South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #4

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We only have his word as to when he discovered Marli was still alive. If it was hours later, perhaps it would be possible to determine that a final blow was fresh and not made hours earlier.

ETA I wish we had a doctor here because I have a question too. I have a doctor's appointment this week and if I remember, I'll ask him.

Yes, I wondered, JJ, if making another blow to Marli would have been too late for him to get away with - better to leave here lying there to die! And, at the same time, listening to Rudi dying. What a monster he is! He must be locked away for the rest of his life - nothing less.

Good luck with your Dr's appointment!
 
Yet another article re drugs.

The following was published on 19 February 2015, 3 weeks after the murders. Now we have the name of the clinic that has previously been referred to.

Ben Rootman, family spokesman, refuses to comment on speculation that Henri … was a drug user. Even after the Sunday Times newspaper reported Henri had been admitted to a clinic in Bellville, Cape Town, he wouldn’t be drawn. “We’re not going to comment on speculation and can’t confirm whether Henri was admitted to the Tijger Clinic,” he tells YOU. The clinic treats patients suffering from mental illness such as bipolar disorder and post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) as well as addiction to alcohol and drugs”.

https://www.pressreader.com/south-africa/you-south-africa/20150219/281505044647658

Where there's smoke there's fire. What a shame someone from the prosecution weren't aware of this. It probably would have been a slam dunk for the State.
 
Yes, I wondered, JJ, if making another blow to Marli would have been too late for him to get away with - better to leave here lying there to die! And, at the same time, listening to Rudi dying. What a monster he is! He must be locked away for the rest of his life - nothing less.

Good luck with your Dr's appointment!

Hehe, it's just to get my fortnightly prescription painkillers.
 
HvB’s blood tests for drugs and alcohol:

‘Today’s testimony from Dr. van Zyl, ex-employee of the Vergelegen Mediclinic, revealed that she had examined Henri van Breda on January 27th, 2015 at 20:45 pm, the night after the murders. He arrived, apparently calm and talkative, to find out if stitches were required on his stab wound. We learned from Dr. van Zyl that they were not needed for Henri’s apparent stab wound as it wasn’t deep enough to warrant this procedure. Instead, staples were applied – typically used for smaller cuts to bring the skin together for healing. Dr. van Zyl mentioned that James Jean-Reade had accompanied him to the Mediclinic and that Henri’s breath smelled of alcohol.

Henri was discharged by Dr. van Zyl, only to come back to the Mediclinic later that night, with a much less friendly demeanour and acting quite blunt, she declared. Henri arrived alone without James this time around, having been remitted back to the Vergelegen Mediclinic by police with the purpose to draw blood for a drug and alcohol test. Dr. van Zyl admitted that these results tested negative, but were taken more than 12 hours after he had phoned emergency services. She did not prescribe any form of medication for Henri after his second visit and concluded that he showed no signs of a concussion.’

http://www.capetownetc.com/news/van-breda-trial-day-15/
 
Listening to the tapes again (and again!), strange speech in the number of times and ways HvB uses the word 'busy'! Attacker 'busy' assaulting his mother; calling emergency, 'busy' on his mobile; Marli, 'busy' growing up etc. Of no significance, I know, but just strikes me as strange context in which he uses the word!

Yes, this word “busy” has bothered me. One could say it is a turn of phrase, but to say the attacker was busy assaulting his mother is just not something I can ever imagine anyone saying.
 
Yes, this word “busy” has bothered me. One could say it is a turn of phrase, but to say the attacker was busy assaulting his mother is just not something I can ever imagine anyone saying.

Yes, Hag! I know it's not significant but It's like everything about him ... bizarre!
 
IMO
I have grown up around many families like Henri’s here in Australia. Kids aren’t kept on a tight leash in these families. There is much more room for idiosyncrasies
 
IMO
I have grown up around many families like Henri’s here in Australia. Kids aren’t kept on a tight leash in these families. There is much more room for idiosyncrasies

IKWYM possum. One of my ‘stomping grounds’ is Sydney’s Eastern Suburbs.
 
The story of the 2015 Stellenbosch axe attack, which resulted in the arrest and trial of Henri van Breda for the murder of his parents and brother, may be headed for the small screen.
This, after a US production company bought the rights to the book, The De Zalze Murders, by Rapport journalist Julian Jansen.

The company plans to rope Jansen in as an executive producer in the making of a TV series or documentary based on the horrific murders which took place two years ago.

https://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/...-axe-murders-headed-for-small-screen-20171205
 
Listening to the tapes again (and again!), strange speech in the number of times and ways HvB uses the word 'busy'! Attacker 'busy' assaulting his mother; calling emergency, 'busy' on his mobile; Marli, 'busy' growing up etc. Of no significance, I know, but just strikes me as strange context in which he uses the word!

I think it creates a deliberate separation from his actions. It conjures up a person being active in some action and that he is in a different space to that person - I am separate from that person - the emergency service was 'busy' - with someone else. Was there some indication that he is a bit of a loner i.e. separate from others.
 
I meant to add that in this way, I believe, HvB is disassociating himself from the situations he is describing.
 
Do you think HvB is a psychopath?

Fooling their families. Deception not only comes naturally to psychopaths, but also it’s a big part of the fun for them. They can convince their therapists or lawyers that they’re innocent people. They often present themselves as the real victims. When caught in a lie, they smoothly make up another story or change their narrative to incorporate the false information. Throughout the entire process, they remain more cool and collected than normal people do when they’re telling the truth. “Lying, deceiving, and manipulation are natural talents for psychopaths … When caught in a lie or challenged with the truth, they are seldom perplexed or embarrassed – they simply change their stories or attempt to rework the facts so that they appear to be consistent with the lie”.

Where they’re constantly punching in a new destination. Their constant pursuit of new goals relates both to their low impulse control and to their underlying lack of empathy. Robert Hare explains that psychopaths “have little resistance to temptation, and their transgressions elicit no guilt.

They sabotage their own futures and harm others in momentary flashes of anger. A psychopath’s anger may be intense, but it’s as shallow as his other emotions. That’s why a psychopath can kill his entire family and go out for a drink with his buddies only a few minutes later. Usually, psychopaths commit cold and calculated crimes. In other words, they don’t commit so-called “crimes of passion”, even when acting in the heat of the moment. “In general, psychopathic violence tends to be callous and cold-blooded, and more likely to be straightforward, uncomplicated, and businesslike than an expression of deep-seated distress or understandable precipitating factors. It lacks the ‘juice’ or powerful emotion that accompanies the violence of most other individuals”.

Psychopaths lack such incentives. Therapy can’t modify a psychopath’s underlying character: “Psychopaths are generally well satisfied with themselves and their inner landscape, bleak as it may seem to outside observers. They see nothing wrong with themselves, experience little personal distress, and find their behaviour rational, rewarding , and satisfying; they never look back with regret or forward with concern”.

Psychopaths function like ticking time bombs. Although nothing rattles psychopaths for long, they have poor behaviour controls. They can burst into violence at little or no provocation. Being guided by a sense of entitlement and double standards, they’re highly insensitive to the feelings of others and hypersensitive to their own. “Besides being impulsive – doing things on the spur of the moment – psychopaths are highly reactive to perceived insults or slights … But their outbursts, extreme as they may be, are generally short-lived, and they quickly resume acting as if nothing out of the ordinary has happened”.

From Dangerous Liaisons by Claudia Moscovici

Psychopaths have shallow emotional responses and do not react normally to deaths, injuries, or other events that would cause a deep negative response in others.

He certainly ticks the above boxes for me.
 
Do you think HvB is a psychopath?

Fooling their families. Deception not only comes naturally to psychopaths, but also it’s a big part of the fun for them. They can convince their therapists or lawyers that they’re innocent people. They often present themselves as the real victims. When caught in a lie, they smoothly make up another story or change their narrative to incorporate the false information. Throughout the entire process, they remain more cool and collected than normal people do when they’re telling the truth. “Lying, deceiving, and manipulation are natural talents for psychopaths … When caught in a lie or challenged with the truth, they are seldom perplexed or embarrassed – they simply change their stories or attempt to rework the facts so that they appear to be consistent with the lie”.

Where they’re constantly punching in a new destination. Their constant pursuit of new goals relates both to their low impulse control and to their underlying lack of empathy. Robert Hare explains that psychopaths “have little resistance to temptation, and their transgressions elicit no guilt.

They sabotage their own futures and harm others in momentary flashes of anger. A psychopath’s anger may be intense, but it’s as shallow as his other emotions. That’s why a psychopath can kill his entire family and go out for a drink with his buddies only a few minutes later. Usually, psychopaths commit cold and calculated crimes. In other words, they don’t commit so-called “crimes of passion”, even when acting in the heat of the moment. “In general, psychopathic violence tends to be callous and cold-blooded, and more likely to be straightforward, uncomplicated, and businesslike than an expression of deep-seated distress or understandable precipitating factors. It lacks the ‘juice’ or powerful emotion that accompanies the violence of most other individuals”.

Psychopaths lack such incentives. Therapy can’t modify a psychopath’s underlying character: “Psychopaths are generally well satisfied with themselves and their inner landscape, bleak as it may seem to outside observers. They see nothing wrong with themselves, experience little personal distress, and find their behaviour rational, rewarding , and satisfying; they never look back with regret or forward with concern”.

Psychopaths function like ticking time bombs. Although nothing rattles psychopaths for long, they have poor behaviour controls. They can burst into violence at little or no provocation. Being guided by a sense of entitlement and double standards, they’re highly insensitive to the feelings of others and hypersensitive to their own. “Besides being impulsive – doing things on the spur of the moment – psychopaths are highly reactive to perceived insults or slights … But their outbursts, extreme as they may be, are generally short-lived, and they quickly resume acting as if nothing out of the ordinary has happened”.

From Dangerous Liaisons by Claudia Moscovici

Psychopaths have shallow emotional responses and do not react normally to deaths, injuries, or other events that would cause a deep negative response in others.

He certainly ticks the above boxes for me.

Thanks for posting that description, JJ. As you say, he ticks every box for me too. Exactly as he came across when testifying.
 
Do you think HvB is a psychopath?

Fooling their families. Deception not only comes naturally to psychopaths, but also it’s a big part of the fun for them. They can convince their therapists or lawyers that they’re innocent people. They often present themselves as the real victims. When caught in a lie, they smoothly make up another story or change their narrative to incorporate the false information. Throughout the entire process, they remain more cool and collected than normal people do when they’re telling the truth. “Lying, deceiving, and manipulation are natural talents for psychopaths … When caught in a lie or challenged with the truth, they are seldom perplexed or embarrassed – they simply change their stories or attempt to rework the facts so that they appear to be consistent with the lie”.

Where they’re constantly punching in a new destination. Their constant pursuit of new goals relates both to their low impulse control and to their underlying lack of empathy. Robert Hare explains that psychopaths “have little resistance to temptation, and their transgressions elicit no guilt.

They sabotage their own futures and harm others in momentary flashes of anger. A psychopath’s anger may be intense, but it’s as shallow as his other emotions. That’s why a psychopath can kill his entire family and go out for a drink with his buddies only a few minutes later. Usually, psychopaths commit cold and calculated crimes. In other words, they don’t commit so-called “crimes of passion”, even when acting in the heat of the moment. “In general, psychopathic violence tends to be callous and cold-blooded, and more likely to be straightforward, uncomplicated, and businesslike than an expression of deep-seated distress or understandable precipitating factors. It lacks the ‘juice’ or powerful emotion that accompanies the violence of most other individuals”.

Psychopaths lack such incentives. Therapy can’t modify a psychopath’s underlying character: “Psychopaths are generally well satisfied with themselves and their inner landscape, bleak as it may seem to outside observers. They see nothing wrong with themselves, experience little personal distress, and find their behaviour rational, rewarding , and satisfying; they never look back with regret or forward with concern”.

Psychopaths function like ticking time bombs. Although nothing rattles psychopaths for long, they have poor behaviour controls. They can burst into violence at little or no provocation. Being guided by a sense of entitlement and double standards, they’re highly insensitive to the feelings of others and hypersensitive to their own. “Besides being impulsive – doing things on the spur of the moment – psychopaths are highly reactive to perceived insults or slights … But their outbursts, extreme as they may be, are generally short-lived, and they quickly resume acting as if nothing out of the ordinary has happened”.

From Dangerous Liaisons by Claudia Moscovici

Psychopaths have shallow emotional responses and do not react normally to deaths, injuries, or other events that would cause a deep negative response in others.

He certainly ticks the above boxes for me.

I’d have to say the same, JJ.
 
Thank you L2L for that article. I hadn’t seen that pic either.

The video was very interesting so I’ve transcribed it.

Family friends describe him as a loner. Author and journalist, Julian Jansen, spoke to twin brothers of Henri’s late father, Martin van Breda. Bailey and André van Breda paint a picture of constant tensions around their nephew.

Julian Jansen:
“Bailey van Breda, he actually in some harsh way would voice his opinion about Henri because, look, they as trustee, they would actually give money for the trial, but then they would also say that he doesn’t contact them, he doesn’t say ‘thank you’, he doesn’t actually come to them. Bailey van Breda once again says that he read his statement and he’s contradicting himself and it reads like a fairytale”.

[We weren't aware that Bailey and André were trustees of the trust fund]

Jansen also tracks van Breda’s alleged drug problem.

“He referred to him having an alleged drug problem. It goes as far back as Australia where he was apparently, according to sources, known as “Druggie” at the university. There was some feedback from a family friend for more than 40 years whose sons would tell her that even Rudi, with Henri, used drugs, but apparently Rudi just gave it up and Henri continued”.

He claims the drug use led to many fights in the family.

“Martin van Breda actually became aware that his son was apparently using drugs, and because of that, he was very concerned. I think Martin was also concerned that Henri was loitering around the house, he was doing nothing, and Martin being a successful entrepreneur, would say ‘time is money and you have to keep yourself busy’. He became annoyed at his son just loafing around at home. So the issue of drugs actually is very much prevalent in the days and weeks before the murders, and it was obvious for those who knew, why the issue of drugs wasn’t actually pulled in by the State, pulled in by the Defence”.

I believe the reason the State didn’t raise the issue of drugs is because most of it is hearsay as Rudi isn’t alive to verify it. He was the person who told the sons of the family friend referred to above that he thought HvB was using drugs. The alleged drug dealer referred to in my earlier post would have been a hostile witness if called and there’s no way he would have testified.

Bailey must have provided the information attributed to him or Jansen would be up for slander.

I really had to laugh at the pic of HvB in the link “his nephew's drug use” because it looks like he was having yet another “seizure” judging by the black circles under his eyes. Strange that ... not.

By the time he and Danielle were arrested for drug possession last year, they had dropped out of cooking school and were living together. With no income of her own that we’re aware of, she was probably wholly dependent on him for everything. I’m firmly of the opinion that he bought the marijuana and that she took the rap for him as his murder trial was looming. The condition of the guest house they had been living in says it all, at least for me.
 
So, it sounds as though HvB was a loner according to his uncles, as reported in the video.
During the trial I did think he was probably using sedatives of some sort. He seemed detached and for the most part was monosyllabic, robotic. His eyes have no expression in them at all, and when replying to questions he would glance at the ceiling or around the court, not even looking at the person talking to him. It looked strange to me and I felt uncomfortable watching him. At times I wondered if he was drugged, or vulnerable, or reacting to the enormity of his (no future) situation by switching off.
Just trying to make sense of my own discomfort. Very scary young man and it would be interesting to know the details of an in depth psychological/psychiatric assessment that I guess the Judge will have in the court papers.
 
Very interesting to learn about Uncle Bailey. Fairy tale indeed!

I thought it was a missed opportunity when Galloway was x-examining HvB and he said he called Bianca because he didn't have many friends, that she didn't ask him why he didn't call any family members. Those family members may have been wondering why he never called them. In a family death I would say it's natural for family to be your first need, and they must have been close by to turn up looking for him. I can't remember now who notified the uncle what had happened, was it the police?

Just as an aside, I remember Pistorius using the word busy quite a bit too.
 
Very interesting to learn about Uncle Bailey. Fairy tale indeed!

I thought it was a missed opportunity when Galloway was x-examining HvB and he said he called Bianca because he didn't have many friends, that she didn't ask him why he didn't call any family members. Those family members may have been wondering why he never called them. In a family death I would say it's natural for family to be your first need, and they must have been close by to turn up looking for him. I can't remember now who notified the uncle what had happened, was it the police?

Just as an aside, I remember Pistorius using the word busy quite a bit too.

Yes, ringing family would be the most natural thing in the world to do. There's obviously one very good reason why he didn't though. I can well imagine they'd be the last people he'd want to speak to.

André du Toit, Teresa’s brother, said he had received a phone call from the estate manager at de Zalze when he was summonsed to the Van Breda home, but he wasn’t told why. He said, “We were the only family they had in Cape Town”.
 
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