South Africa - Martin, 55, Theresa, 54, Rudi van Breda, 22, murdered, 26 Jan 2015 #4

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I find it decidedly odd that apart from André du Toit, there are rarely any people in the public gallery. High profile trials usually attract a lot of people, e.g. Panayiotou, where the court was always packed. Teresa’s side of the family think HvB is such a “lovely child” and believe he could never commit murder, so I expected them to be out in force to show their support. However, the van Breda side of the family, or some of them, appear to have a completely different view as per Bailey’s comments. I’m left with the impression that both sides of the family have now been irrevocably torn apart. The ultimate verdict will only make matters worse in this regard.

Teresa’s sister made the “lovely child" comment. She also said, “You know when a child has done something wrong. You can see it in his eyes or body language. But with Henri there was nothing”. Well, she certainly got that right, but there are none so blind as those who cannot see. The eyes are said to be the window to the soul and his eyes are completely dead looking. Yes, with HvB there is nothing ... no remorse, no empathy for his victims, no sense of shock at the absolutely brutal way they died, no emotions … nothing, nothing at all.
 
JudgeJudi

I find it decidedly odd that apart from André du Toit, there are rarely any people in the public gallery. High profile trials usually attract a lot of people, e.g. Panayiotou, where the court was always packed.
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Yes that had struck me as odd too. The du Toits were the only family in Cape Town, but where are Marli's boyfriend's family who I think HvB stayed with for a short time after the killings. I can't remember who Marli is staying with.

It might be something to do with the van Bredas being back in the country for a relatively short time with no strong community links. Plus Rudi was only home for a temporary visit and may not have a strong network there. This wouldn't explain the lack of interest in the general public though, including people living on their estate.
 
I know I'm jumping ahead a bit :D but I have wondered who is going to say anything in the form of a victim impact statement at his sentencing. These are HvB's family and I think we might find that no one says anything, if for no other reason than there could be an appeal, and this will live with them into the future, it's not like an in-law or non-family member whom you can express all your feelings about and try and forget about them.

I'd love to know what Marli thinks.
 
Tortoise said:
I know I'm jumping ahead a bit :D but I have wondered who is going to say anything in the form of a victim impact statement at his sentencing. These are HvB's family and I think we might find that no one says anything, if for no other reason than there could be an appeal, and this will live with them into the future, it's not like an in-law or non-family member whom you can express all your feelings about and try and forget about them.

I'd love to know what Marli thinks.
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Yes, indeed! I've been wishfully hoping she regains enough memory to put H away for good.
 
Tortoise said:
I know I'm jumping ahead a bit :D but I have wondered who is going to say anything in the form of a victim impact statement at his sentencing. These are HvB's family and I think we might find that no one says anything, if for no other reason than there could be an appeal, and this will live with them into the future, it's not like an in-law or non-family member whom you can express all your feelings about and try and forget about them.

I'd love to know what Marli thinks.
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If anyone says anything on his behalf, I think it would be his uncle, André du Toit.

André du Toit has attended the trial regularly since the beginning. On Day 8, André and Bailey van Breda attended with their wives, but it seems Bailey "turned back". Bailey and his wife live in Gauteng which is just under 1,400 kms away, so no doubt they flew (1.5 hrs). If IIRC, he and his wife stayed with a family member.

If he's found guilty, there's no doubt at all that he will appeal provided the trust fund or Legal Aid pays for it.

As for Marli, I'd really like to know whether she has been tested in recent times for her retrograde amnesia. Obviously this is personal information and not likely to enter the public domain. However, if she can't remember what happened that night, it's interesting that she hasn't given HvB the benefit of the doubt and attended occasionally.
 
I was just ruminating over the order in which the family was attacked.

All along I've been thinking that his biggest grudge/jealousy was with Rudi. But then we hear that Martin had cut off his allowance and was coming down on HvB about his lifestyle etc.

It might not have been that he set out to kill Rudi and the others were just witnesses he had to deal with. It might be that if he'd attacked his mother and father first, Rudi could have tried to intervene and got away to raise the alarm. Because Martin was recovering from his bowel cancer op, and Rudi was looking after his body by going running, so he would have been the fittest one he needed to deal with first. HvB dragging Rudi around, to me, seems like it was an attempt to stage a different version or to get him to bleed some more after he'd cleaned the axe. The blood would have soaked into the bed by the time he cleaned the axe and then decided to throw it, so he needed a new source of blood. If he'd swiped it in the blood in the hallway that would have left marks to show what he'd done.

It's really hard to get inside the mind of this type of killer. Really hard. I'm sure he thought Marli would die from her injuries if he waited long enough. She may have not moved initially and he assumed she was dead for a while because he was so 'busy'.
 
I speculated earlier that HvB killed Rudi first because of the distance between the bedrooms. The parents room was at one end of the longish landing, and Rudi and HvB's at the opposite end. I assumed everyone would be in bed due to the time. If Rudi had seen his parents killed and run off, he would have known the danger. As a fit older brother would he have succumbed to the attack from HvB? Plus Martin would have been in no state to run to protect Rudi.
In the diagram of the house it shows the Theresa and Marli's bodies outside of HvB and Rudi's bedroom.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=76&v=tBSBDKzY64w

Rudi and Martin's bodies are in HvB's bedroom. Could Martin have left his room to defuse a row between HvB and Rudi, with Theresa and Marli following a short time behind him?
I see what you mean re the blood staining.
 
Here’s a small but fascinating insight into the arrogance and insolence of HvB. I’ll paraphrase as I don’t want to breach any copyright laws but it’s from Nick van der Leek’s book Diablo: Van Breda.

Nick was sitting downstairs in the media section, almost an arm’s length from Galloway and mere metres from HvB who was in the dock. Court adjourned for the day and Nick, using his phone, tried to snap a quick pic of HvB but he moved away too quickly. As he passed Nick’s shoulder, he felt a firm push. He turned to see if there was an innocent reason for HvB pushing him, and as he turned he locked eyes with HvB who said, “Are you a man or a mouse?”, a quote from Nick’s book Indefensible. Nick was bemused that he’d read his book as it had only been released a few days earlier. He was befuddled at HvB throwing his words back at him and he asked himself, “How does one respond to an alleged axe murderer brazenly bumping and sniping at you in court?” He was angered at HvB’s brazenness and was infuriated. “In fact, I’m suddenly so agitated, I want to hit someone”.
 
RSBM
Tortoise said:
I was just ruminating over the order in which the family was attacked.

All along I've been thinking that his biggest grudge/jealousy was with Rudi. But then we hear that Martin had cut off his allowance and was coming down on HvB about his lifestyle etc.
Click to expand...

I’ve been thinking about this too but I still feel that Rudi was the target and the others collateral damage.

I agree it’s entirely feasible that HvB decided to take revenge on his father for cutting his allowance. However Rudi was due to return to Australia shortly to continue studying towards his Master's degree at university. If Martin was the target, it would have been far less risky had he waited until Rudi had left SA.

However, it’s the argument, which I believe was only between the brothers, that makes me feel that Rudi was the target, coupled with the fact that Rudi sustained the most severe injuries. The argument was obviously very prolonged and heated as it was heard by the neighbour.

In his Initial Statement he said, “My father then went to bed at about 21:00 and myself and Rudi went to bed 23:00”.

However, in his Plea Explanation this changed to “After dinner, Rudi, my dad and I watched a movie, Star Trek 2. … After the movie, Rudi, dad and I said goodnight”.

The movie runs for 1hr 53 mins and this immediately causes a problem for version 1 as the movie had to start at approx. 9:00 in order to finish at 11:00. However the neighbour Stephanie Op’T Hof said at about 10pm she first heard loud and aggressive men’s voices that sounded like an argument that continued until after midnight (she went to sleep at 12:10). This ties in perfectly with the length of the movie. HvB obviously had to shift the viewing time back as the argument was heard starting at about 10:00. Hence version 2 deletes the times and “after dinner” is substituted in lieu.

OH was a very credible witness who refused to budge from her statement that she heard what sounded like an argument even though HvB said what she heard was the movie soundtrack, but OH said the movie has music and she heard none that night.

If Martin did in fact retire at 9:00pm, he was probably asleep 10:00. That only left HvB and Rudi to engage in an argument. If their voices were loud enough to be heard by OH, that may have been the reason why Teresa left her bedroom and called out, “What’s going on?” which is a typical comment a parent would make to arguing children. This makes more sense to me than Teresa calling out after the attacks had commenced on Rudi and Martin. If two people had been brutally attacked with an axe, I’m sure the sounds would have been very, very different and far more alarming and terrifying than to justify “What’s going on”. The fact that both Teresa’s and Marli’s legs were pointing towards the boys’ bedroom, and Teresa was found face down, suggests to me that upon seeing what was happening in the bedroom, they both turned and tried to flee but were then attacked.

After being reprimanded, the boys may then have ceased arguing and retired to their bedroom. In his Initial Statement HvB said they were both on their laptops. He didn’t say, “I was on my laptop and I think Rudi was too”. He specifically stated that Rudi was on his laptop for 15-20 minutes and then went to sleep. This was proven to be an outright lie as Rudi’s laptop wasn’t found in the bedroom. We always have to be on our guard and not to take everything he says at face value.

He’s a pathological liar.

The owners of the guesthouse where he was living didn't recognise him. He told them his parents live in Australia and he was just visiting Cape Town.

[url]https://www.news24.com/You/Archive/one-year-later-we-look-back-on-the-de-zalze-axe-murder-20170728[/URL]
 
One of the fascinating aspects of this trial was the defence expert witnesses.

a) First we had the DNA expert Olckers whose credibility was severely undermined by both Galloway and Desai. Amongst other things


  • She only prepared her “independent” report after hearing the testimonies of the State’s witnesses
  • Had never done a proficiency test
  • Had never worked in a forensic laboratory
  • Had never used either Luminol or Blue Star which were used by the State in their forensic DNA analysis of samples
  • Had no statistician in her consulting company even though statistics are vital to determining probability of matches when it comes to DNA

b) Next up was neurosurgeon Dr Mike du Trevou who said that

  • It couldn’t be ruled out that HvB had made up his story that he lay passed out at the bottom of the stairs for 2hrs 40 mins
  • HvB hadn’t told him about this

c) Also on the defence list of expert witnesses were


  • Pathologist, Dr Reggie Perumal
  • Ballistics expert, Cobus Steyl
  • Psychologist, Elspeth Burke

Surprise, surprise ... none of these experts were called. One doesn't need to be a genius to understand why.

d) And finally we were treated to the know-it-all expert on all things relating to epileptic seizures and beyond, Dr James Butler, who repeatedly stressed that he wasn’t biased.


  • When Galloway described HvB’s interrogation as fragmented but sand that in court he told a different story with details from what he wore to what he ate, Butler agreed that the court could discount the strength of that evidence
  • Butler had an excuse for everything that HvB said he did or didn’t do, and all these diagnoses were 2 years 9 months after the murders.

The State had excellent expert witnesses, especially DNA expert Lt-Col Otto, bloodspatter expert Capt. Joubert, and Dr Tiemensma who were all grilled mercilessly by Botha and did a superb job.

We're almost ready to cross the finishing line.

Then all we have to do is :please: that Desai agrees and locks this obnoxious psychopath away for a long, long, long, long time.
 
JudgeJudi said:
Here’s a small but fascinating insight into the arrogance and insolence of HvB. I’ll paraphrase as I don’t want to breach any copyright laws but it’s from Nick van der Leek’s book Diablo: Van Breda.

Nick was sitting downstairs in the media section, almost an arm’s length from Galloway and mere metres from HvB who was in the dock. Court adjourned for the day and Nick, using his phone, tried to snap a quick pic of HvB but he moved away too quickly. As he passed Nick’s shoulder, he felt a firm push. He turned to see if there was an innocent reason for HvB pushing him, and as he turned he locked eyes with HvB who said, “Are you a man or a mouse?”, a quote from Nick’s book Indefensible. Nick was bemused that he’d read his book as it had only been released a few days earlier. He was befuddled at HvB throwing his words back at him and he asked himself, “How does one respond to an alleged axe murderer brazenly bumping and sniping at you in court?” He was angered at HvB’s brazenness and was infuriated. “In fact, I’m suddenly so agitated, I want to hit someone”.
Click to expand...
Glad to see he is checking out opinions.

I do hope he reads here, and notices there isn't one moominballoomin in sight.

Great posts JJ.

How many days now let's see...44, the count down has begun.
 
Tortoise said:
Glad to see he is checking out opinions.

I do hope he reads here, and notices there isn't one moominballoomin in sight.

Great posts JJ.

How many days now let's see...44, the count down has begun.
Click to expand...

I bet he spent a lot of time on the internet reading as much news and comments as possible. It could only enhance how he approached and tailored his answers to fit in with the evidence that was presented by the State.

I hope he didn't read here because we discussed things before they were raised in court and gave him time to think up plausible answers to questions Galloway might raise.
 
Tortoise, I found something that you might like to add to support the fact that Martin was the target.

Julian Jansen said In his book The De Zalze Murders that Henri’s alleged drug use caused discord in the family and troubled Martin enough to confront and punish his son.

Jansen claimed that at some point Martin retaliated by cutting off HvB’s allowance, and he relates how "this was not well received by Henri, who already felt alienated by his dad’s favouritism for his eldest brother, Rudi …"

No doubt he was furious that Martin had cut off his allowance, thereby cutting of his ability to purchase drugs. Perhaps another point worth considering is that after the rest of the family went to bed, HvB may have started complaining about this to Rudi and Rudi may have supported what Martin had done. If HvB was already jealous of Rudi, this may have been the straw that broke the camel’s back. I can almost hear the argument going back and forth in my mind. All HvB’s pent-up anger that had built up over years at both of them rising to fever pitch.

Unfortunately we’re never going to know who the main target was, but it’s also possible that both of them were on HvB’s hit list that night and it just so happened that Rudi was closest so was targeted first.

If you recall, 17 days before the murders there was an argument precipitated by Martin commenting on Marli’s weight gain followed by the intensity of her relationship with James causing her marks at school to go down. Later that night in one of the WhatsApp messages between Marli and James she replied, “… Rudi came out to speak to me. He was pretty much saying to suck it up cuz I have nothing to be crying about. He doesn’t listen to anything I say”. Rudi may well have adopted this sort of attitude with HvB that night, triggering something in HvB’s mind and the deadly chain of events that followed.

Whatever it was, he deserves to spend what should have been the best years of his life paying for the most heinous, despicable crime imaginable.
 
Sorry for the strange behaviour of the previous link for our fireworks. It appeared to be on a link. The new link is perfect. I hope you enjoy it.
 
Ah, my most memorable new years eve ever was spent in Australia, camping at Clairview, 1988/89. With 14 different nationalities we celebrated everyone's new year as it was happening back home, singing around a bonfire on the beach, then sleeping out under the stars because the tents were too humid.

A very happy and healthy New Year to you all, from a cold and wet London!
 
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