Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #6

Sweetluv said:

I keep thinking about her dress attire, including the pink wedged sandals. Not a first choice for camping or hitchhiking.
I would think if he was brought up in a wealthy household, when he never returned home, they would have hired an investigator. If they were involved in a shady lifestyle, maybe they were estranged from family and friends.

Click to expand...

In regards to the victims.
I don't know if it's been bought up on this thread before but if they are foreigners,
I wonder if there could be a possible surinamese connection. They could be from Suriname or Curacao which has a surinamese community.
The engraving in the ring is probably someone's initials but could mean something different.
The motto on the Suriname coat of arms is Justitia, Pietas, Fides. The people there seem to be very proud of it. Many businesses and such have it in their titles.
The star in their coat of arms is a 5 pointed star and the ring is a 6 ray star. But I guess you can't get a odd number star sapphire.
I don't know, just some thoughts.
Another thing. In 1975 Suriname claimed their independence. At this time a migration occurred. Many went to the Netherlands, the very country they were claiming independence from. But some came to the US. Most of these went to Florida, south Georgia and New York. There were many that came on tourist visas and simply stayed.
If the victims had overstayed a visa, is it possible this is why they had no identification?
Maybe the only id's they had said they weren't even supposed to be here and they ditched them.

T rex said:

In regards to the victims.
I don't know if it's been bought up on this thread before but if they are foreigners,
I wonder if there could be a possible surinamese connection. They could be from Suriname or Curacao which has a surinamese community.
The engraving in the ring is probably someone's initials but could mean something different.
The motto on the Suriname coat of arms is Justitia, Pietas, Fides. The people there seem to be very proud of it. Many businesses and such have it in their titles.
The star in their coat of arms is a 5 pointed star and the ring is a 6 ray star. But I guess you can't get a odd number star sapphire.
I don't know, just some thoughts.
Another thing. In 1975 Suriname claimed their independence. At this time a migration occurred. Many went to the Netherlands, the very country they were claiming independence from. But some came to the US. Most of these went to Florida, south Georgia and New York. There were many that came on tourist visas and simply stayed.
If the victims had overstayed a visa, is it possible this is why they had no identification?
Maybe the only id's they had said they weren't even supposed to be here and they ditched them.

Click to expand...

Anything is possible, but the man's watch was a Bulova, which was an American brand, and his T-shirt was from a race that pre-dated Suriname's independence. Most of the Europeans that fled Suriname were probably Dutch, and Jacques and Jane don't look Dutch. It's possible that they could have been Creole or ethnically mixed.

The mechanic who said that he worked on the couple's car remembered it having either Oregon or Washington plates. He could have had the wrong couple in mind, but if he was correct, it does raise a question: How could non-residents have gotten a car plated in the US? We've also read that the couple had a motorcycle, but they sure weren't dressed like bikers.

Hey I never knew this. I 've been reading about this case for years and I never knew that during this murder and probably the events leading up to it there was a hurricane sitting right off the Carolina coast. There were warnings from Georgia to Maine. 500,000 people were evacuated and people on the coast were advised to go inland. You can read up on hurricane Belle at the Wikipedia page.

This could change my way of thinking.

T rex said:

Hey I never knew this. I 've been reading about this case for years and I never knew that during this murder and probably the events leading up to it there was a hurricane sitting right off the Carolina coast. There were warnings from Georgia to Maine. 500,000 people were evacuated and people on the coast were advised to go inland. You can read up on hurricane Belle at the Wikipedia page.

This could change my way of thinking.

Click to expand...

It could mean that there were a lot of outsiders in the area, both in Sumter County and in Wadesboro (the Henry clan's stomping grounds). People could have been wandering around, looking for places to camp out . . . trespassing . . . stumbling upon things that somebody didn't want them to see--possibly stealing if they had been forced to leave resources behind somewhere.

We know that the murder weapon belonged to someone who lived inland.

Any way you slice it, carjacking, vigilantism, and silencing of witnesses still seem like the three most probable scenarios.

I came up on an interesting story and pictures. I think they may have been entered into namus at one time but have since been removed. But not sure about all three of them. Some of you may have ruled them out in the past. I have provided the link below.
The one on the far left , Jimmy Williams, is about as close a match to jock doe as I guess I've ever seen. He has all the looks. At least to me. He even has the chin. And even with the glasses, I still think I detect some bushy eyebrows. He apparently had the money too, driving a new camaro.
However he has been ruled out due to DNA and I'm sure not trying to open up any old wounds so I guess I'll just shut my trap now.
Anyways, the link is below, you can look it over if you want.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-the-bottom-of-a-lake/?utm_term=.2292ab42d132

I am a little overwhelmed right now and could use some help.
While researching this case I came across the following. Please have a look at the top link (Diane Carrier)then take a look at the second link. Scroll down 10 pictures on the left. There are a few more in there too. What do you think? I have no dates.

http://www.411gina.org/cases/carrierdiane.htm

https://www.flickr.com/photos/peoplestemple/page16

When you get time you should really look through all these pictures of the people's temple. There are many possible matches to the victims in this case.
That could explain alot. Like why no one has been looking for them. Maybe their families disowned them for being a part of this cult or maybe they were part of it themselves and died in the mass suicide that Jim Jones instructed.
There was a wave of defectors in 1975 and 76.

Is there any forums here for the people's temple, Jim Jones, Jonesville, etc.
If not, there really should be. In my research of it I have come across unsolved murders and missing person cases.
I was just reading an article about a morgue that had discovered they were in the possession of remains from the suicide that had never been identified.
Something like this could solve a lot of missing person cases.
Thanks for any help or opinions.

T rex said:

I am a little overwhelmed right now and could use some help.
While researching this case I came across the following. Please have a look at the top link (Diane Carrier)then take a look at the second link. Scroll down 10 pictures on the left. There are a few more in there too. What do you think? I have no dates.

http://www.411gina.org/cases/carrierdiane.htm

https://www.flickr.com/photos/peoplestemple/page16

When you get time you should really look through all these pictures of the people's temple. There are many possible matches to the victims in this case.
That could explain alot. Like why no one has been looking for them. Maybe their families disowned them for being a part of this cult or maybe they were part of it themselves and died in the mass suicide that Jim Jones instructed.
There was a wave of defectors in 1975 and 76.

Is there any forums here for the people's temple, Jim Jones, Jonesville, etc.
If not, there really should be. In my research of it I have come across unsolved murders and missing person cases.
I was just reading an article about a morgue that had discovered they were in the possession of remains from the suicide that had never been identified.
Something like this could solve a lot of missing person cases.
Thanks for any help or opinions.

Click to expand...

I don't see any resemblance to Diane Carrier.

Was there any particular picture that stood out to you on the flickr site?

Ozoner said:

I don't see any resemblance to Diane Carrier.

Was there any particular picture that stood out to you on the flickr site?

Click to expand...

None at all???
I'm referring to the picture of the little girl getting her hair fixed by another little girl. And there's another picture of the same girl.
Now, since that post I have found it again with a date. It says the picture was taken in 1978 but I'm not taking the word of the people's temple.
I'm not saying that it is Diane Carrier but if there's no resemblance at all (LoL) I may as well delete my account and get my fishing rod back out. It's only 12 degrees .
But seriously, it is sad that they made this little girl drink Kool aide with cyanide in it, regardless of who she was.

T rex said:

I am a little overwhelmed right now and could use some help.
While researching this case I came across the following. Please have a look at the top link (Diane Carrier)then take a look at the second link. Scroll down 10 pictures on the left. There are a few more in there too. What do you think? I have no dates.

http://www.411gina.org/cases/carrierdiane.htm

https://www.flickr.com/photos/peoplestemple/page16

When you get time you should really look through all these pictures of the people's temple. There are many possible matches to the victims in this case.
That could explain alot. Like why no one has been looking for them. Maybe their families disowned them for being a part of this cult or maybe they were part of it themselves and died in the mass suicide that Jim Jones instructed.
There was a wave of defectors in 1975 and 76.

Is there any forums here for the people's temple, Jim Jones, Jonesville, etc.
If not, there really should be. In my research of it I have come across unsolved murders and missing person cases.
I was just reading an article about a morgue that had discovered they were in the possession of remains from the suicide that had never been identified.
Something like this could solve a lot of missing person cases.
Thanks for any help or opinions.

Click to expand...

I don't see a resemblance, sorry. The "funny" thing is that Jamestown or the idea them fleeing from a cult group and being "punished", also went through my mind. I saw (I think on Pinterest) a lot of pictures/tributes to those who died there. If I remember correctly there were only a few people identified in the proper way, so to speak. There is a whole conspiracy theory around Jonestown..interesting to read.

T rex said:

None at all???
I'm referring to the picture of the little girl getting her hair fixed by another little girl. And there's another picture of the same girl.
Now, since that post I have found it again with a date. It says the picture was taken in 1978 but I'm not taking the word of the people's temple.
I'm not saying that it is Diane Carrier but if there's no resemblance at all (LoL) I may as well delete my account and get my fishing rod back out. It's only 12 degrees .
But seriously, it is sad that they made this little girl drink Kool aide with cyanide in it, regardless of who she was.

Click to expand...

Please stay. Yes there is a resemblance, curly hair. And the idea of people missing from America or elsewhere ending up there is a good one. But for the this does, I'm not sure the timeline fits...and yes, its a horrific part of history.

T rex said:

None at all???
I'm referring to the picture of the little girl getting her hair fixed by another little girl. And there's another picture of the same girl.
Now, since that post I have found it again with a date. It says the picture was taken in 1978 but I'm not taking the word of the people's temple.
I'm not saying that it is Diane Carrier but if there's no resemblance at all (LoL) I may as well delete my account and get my fishing rod back out. It's only 12 degrees .
But seriously, it is sad that they made this little girl drink Kool aide with cyanide in it, regardless of who she was.

Click to expand...

I might not have seen that particular picture; I'll take a look again when I'm on a desktop instead of an android.

The letter from the so called 8 revolutionaries (8 students) who left Jonestown in 1973 for obvious reasons.....

http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/?page_id=14076

1. John Biddulph
2. Walter Wayne Pietila
3. Vera Biddulph
4. Mickey Touchette
5. Hulena [Lena] M. Flowers
6. Tom Podgorski
7. Terri [Cobb] Pietela
8. Jim Cobb (James Cobb Jr.)

Maybe Jock and Jane were with them, have to research more, age etc. what became of them....

Bit of hope said:

The letter from the so called 8 revolutionaries (8 students) who left Jonestown in 1973 for obvious reasons.....

http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/?page_id=14076

1. John Biddulph
2. Walter Wayne Pietila
3. Vera Biddulph
4. Mickey Touchette
5. Hulena [Lena] M. Flowers
6. Tom Podgorski
7. Terri [Cobb] Pietela
8. Jim Cobb (James Cobb Jr.)

Maybe Jock and Jane were with them, have to research more, age etc. what became of them....

Click to expand...

There isn't any evidence pointing to that scenario. If Jock and Jane had been with any kind of cult or hippie commune, there's no reason to think that it was that one. We should be looking for horses before zebras and zebras before unicorns. The Jonestown scenario is a unicorn.

Ozoner said:

There isn't any evidence pointing to that scenario. If Jock and Jane had been with any kind of cult or hippie commune, there's no reason to think that it was that one. We should be looking for horses before zebras and zebras before unicorns. The Jonestown scenario is a unicorn.

Click to expand...

Thx Ozoner, It's just a hunch....could you please make your signature a little shorter?

Have the mcminns been officially ruled out?

Bit of hope said:

The letter from the so called 8 revolutionaries (8 students) who left Jonestown in 1973 for obvious reasons.....

http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/?page_id=14076

1. John Biddulph
2. Walter Wayne Pietila
3. Vera Biddulph
4. Mickey Touchette
5. Hulena [Lena] M. Flowers
6. Tom Podgorski
7. Terri [Cobb] Pietela
8. Jim Cobb (James Cobb Jr.)

Maybe Jock and Jane were with them, have to research more, age etc. what became of them....

Click to expand...

If they were a part of the People's Temple someone would have likely recognized them by now.

Bit of hope said:

The letter from the so called 8 revolutionaries (8 students) who left Jonestown in 1973 for obvious reasons.....

http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/?page_id=14076

1. John Biddulph
2. Walter Wayne Pietila
3. Vera Biddulph
4. Mickey Touchette
5. Hulena [Lena] M. Flowers
6. Tom Podgorski
7. Terri [Cobb] Pietela
8. Jim Cobb (James Cobb Jr.)

Maybe Jock and Jane were with them, have to research more, age etc. what became of them....

Click to expand...

I don't know about the 8. I think they were pretty smart about how they defected. They made it very public. The peoples temple probably wouldn't want to retaliate as it would have drawn a lot of attention.
If you want to consider this scenario, one question is would the does have been defectors or would they have been sent to harrass defectors? And there were defectors from the peoples temple in that area. Very close to the area Henry was found in possession of the murder weapon. A family defected in the mid 70's and took up residence in Little River SC and later in Loris SC. I will not post their names but I will provide the link where it can be found.
I will give this name, Helen B Swinney. She did not defect but stayed on with peoples temple all the way through the end of Jonestown at which time she went to live with the defectors mentioned above. Helen Swinney was not the average member but in the inner circle. She mostly stayed out to sea on the Albatross or the Cudjoe ( the peoples temple boats ) conducting business and she had access to temple bank accounts. If you look at the link below and scroll down to the accounts in Trinidad and Tobago it gives a little information on her. The next link provides some more info on her as well as the defectors. I did not look at the link you provided just now ( I'm going to do that next ) but I have read the 8's letter before and I believe it mentions Helen Swinney.
I also found a good article in the Executive Intelligence Review but Iam not able to upload it. It is vol. 5 , no 48 , Dec 12 1978 "Crack in the cult coverup". It gives some insight into what the temple boats were suspected of. Drug running, arms dealing and recruiting mercenaries to be sent to Angola as well as other places.
Wasn't there a theory on this thread at one time about some murders in Africa? But I'm not sure where in Africa. Anyway, when I get time I may check into that.

http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/?page_id=71968


http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/?page_id=37995

I think we need to get their pictures circulating in public forums. I'm not saying let's post post mortem pictures all over these public forums but may if we can post the composites and provide a link for the post mortem pictures and get as many people to share as possible. Than someone may recognize them. An old friend a classmate etc. I feel like el dorado Jane doe has received so much attention this way that maybe just maybe if we get pictures out there than someone may recognize them. I know they are most likely not from the U.S. But they may have some old classmates or friends who live here now. Also it's possible they if we get enough shares it's likely to end up in Canada.

Yea I'm still reading up on the same on the ole stuff. The peoples temple. It's just too interesting to stop. You should read some of the things they wanted to do to people just like us. They were pretty much just a bunch of terrorists. They wanted to be suicide bombers and such. One in particular got my attention. A man by the name of Peter Wotherspoon was born in Santiago Chile. He wanted to make plans to assassinate high government officials. Specifically Augusto Pinochet in Chile and Ian Smith in South Africa. If you want to take a look it is below just scroll all the way to the bottom to see his statement. The other link gives some more info on Peter Wotherspoon and a photo of him.


http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/?page_id=13127


http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/?who_died=wotherspoon-peter-andrew

T rex said:

Yea I'm still reading up on the same on the ole stuff. The peoples temple. It's just too interesting to stop. You should read some of the things they wanted to do to people just like us. They were pretty much just a bunch of terrorists. They wanted to be suicide bombers and such. One in particular got my attention. A man by the name of Peter Wotherspoon was born in Santiago Chile. He wanted to make plans to assassinate high government officials. Specifically Augusto Pinochet in Chile and Ian Smith in South Africa. If you want to take a look it is below just scroll all the way to the bottom to see his statement. The other link gives some more info on Peter Wotherspoon and a photo of him.


http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/?page_id=13127


http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/?who_died=wotherspoon-peter-andrew

Click to expand...

This whole thing gives me the creeps and is very interesting indeed especially the Chili, Santiago link. I don't think it will lead us to the identity of Jock and Jane, though.