Theories #1: What Happened to Jennifer Kesse?

There is a scenario I have where the POI fits. I have pasted below a post I made back in May.
There is an outside chance one of the workers at Mosaic paid or organised for the POI to park her car at HOTG.

The POI could have been one of two or more abductors.

• Further to the rapist working in Jennifer's condo.
  
  I'm always wary of quoting people but there was a reaction from Mr Kesse on the news this person passed a polygraph.
  
  The worker also told LE that on a day when Jennifer was at the condo watching the work in progress (fix ups)............................"Jennifer told him to lock up when they finished their work.'
  
  Mr Kesse claimed that was a lie because he was on the phone to Jennifer that day. She never said that and wouldn't say that.'
  
  How would you like to be Mr & Mrs Kesse having to deal with an inept OPD.
  
  I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but I often thought Jenner's parents should have hired good PI as soon as they laid eyes on those two original detectives. Those two have a lot to answer for.​
  
  
  

Myserty64 said:

There is a scenario I have where the POI fits. I have pasted below a post I made back in May.
There is an outside chance one of the workers at Mosaic paid or organised for the POI to park her car at HOTG.

The POI could have been one of two or more abductors.

• Further to the rapist working in Jennifer's condo.
  
  I'm always wary of quoting people but there was a reaction from Mr Kesse on the news this person passed a polygraph.
  
  The worker also told LE that on a day when Jennifer was at the condo watching the work in progress (fix ups)............................"Jennifer told him to lock up when they finished their work.'
  
  Mr Kesse claimed that was a lie because he was on the phone to Jennifer that day. She never said that and wouldn't say that.'
  
  How would you like to be Mr & Mrs Kesse having to deal with an inept OPD.
  
  I know hindsight is a wonderful thing but I often thought Jenner's parents should have hired good PI as soon as they laid eyes on those two original detectives. Those two have a lot to answer for.​

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Yes, absolutely, it always worries me when polygraphs are used to help eliminate people, psychos and crims are usually accomplished liars. It gives me chills thinking about how the condo workers were acting around her and it sounds like they could easily have even had keys to her apartment.
Looking at the car parker, I have always thought they were an accessory or possibly part of a larger group that attacked Jennifer. Probably also involved in other criminal activity and tbh even if they didn't know about the seriousness of the crime, they would surely have known that something dodgy was going on, so unlikely to come forward I think.

The condo workers is a very plausible theory and I have seen Jennifer's brother say that they are his main suspects. I still think that if they did anything it would have been at night though not the morning. And the difficulty with that is that I think there is no way that Jennifer would have opened her door to an unknown person, unless could they have said there was a fire, or a gas leak? Or they then used their keys, but then why knock and give her warning first? So I still think it more likely to have been a known person if this knock on the door is fact.

It sounds very much like one of those key details that LE keep quiet to give a suspect a false sense of security, hoping that they will be able to gain time to catch them out in a lie.

And I have always wondered why her canister of mace which was normally on her car keys was still in the apartment, apparently she took it off her keys because of the holiday? She was very safety conscious and I think would have put it back on her keys if she had left the apartment for work on her own Tuesday morning.

Also, does anyone know if the condo manager was questioned much? I remember a couple of cases where apartment managers turned out to be involved as they have keys and a good knowledge of the occupants' routines?

Well just learned about this door knock myself
WHO would be knocking at 10pm?

I agree The timeline is just too coincidental

About that knock That was from Rob on the phone at the time

Since Jenn never turned off her cell phone and was very safety conscious, I think it can be concluded that she met up with foul play from between 9:57PM to 10:40PM that night either in her condo or outside her condo. Either she was lured out through a ruse or she knew her perpetrator. (Many homicide detectives would agree 90% that she knew her abductor). She had no other reason to leaven her condo that night, and according to witnesses, her car was not in her space at 6:40AM on the 24th.

kudo623 said:

Since Jenn never turned off her cell phone and was very safety conscious, I think it can be concluded that she met up with foul play from between 9:57PM to 10:40PM that night either in her condo or outside her condo. Either she was lured out through a ruse or she knew her perpetrator. (Many homicide detectives would agree 90% that she knew her abductor). She had no other reason to leaven her condo that night, and according to witnesses, her car was not in her space at 6:40AM on the 24th.

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Only issue is, the Cell phone being turned off at night is not conclusive. Not verifified. otherwise I think you are correct. If the information was given to the public we might know better.

Abduction, possibly held and still alive. I think about her often.

Shin Masamura said:

Only issue is, the Cell phone being turned off at night is not conclusive. Not verifified. otherwise I think you are correct. If the information was given to the public we might know better.

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How can you say her phone wasn't verified to be powered off at 10:40PM that night? According to her cell records, OPD investigators verified that Jenn's phone stopped pinging at 10:40PM, and was powered down and the battery removed at that time. This has been case record since early on in the investigation.

kudo623 said:

How can you say her phone wasn't verified to be powered off at 10:40PM that night? According to her cell records, OPD investigators verified that Jenn's phone stopped pinging at 10:40PM, and was powered down and the battery removed at that time. This has been case record since early on in the investigation.

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That was a rumor, Jen's mom cleared it up on on an "Unconcluded" podcast late last year I believe. Other can jump in to back me up. For years the 10:30pm batteries being removed was floated out there like it was gospel until it was dispelled. Might of leaked but LE wont verify because it might be detrimental to their case. Episode 11 I believe...

kudo623 said:

Since Jenn never turned off her cell phone and was very safety conscious, I think it can be concluded that she met up with foul play from between 9:57PM to 10:40PM that night either in her condo or outside her condo. Either she was lured out through a ruse or she knew her perpetrator. (Many homicide detectives would agree 90% that she knew her abductor). She had no other reason to leaven her condo that night, and according to witnesses, her car was not in her space at 6:40AM on the 24th.

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I only read that the landscapers arrived at around 730 am. They were working on the area right next to Jen's parking spot that morning. They worked in this area every Tuesday morning, and they were used to seeing Jen going to her vehicle. They told LE that they did not see Jen that morning. I do not recall them mentioning the vehicle. jmo

Shin Masamura said:

That was a rumor, Jen's mom cleared it up on on an "Unconcluded" podcast late last year I believe. Other can jump in to back me up. For years the 10:30pm batteries being removed was floated out there like it was gospel until it was dispelled. Might of leaked but LE wont verify because it might be detrimental to their case. Episode 11 I believe...

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That's hogwash! OPD told this to Drew Kesse from day 1. Why would they compromise their own investigation? Drew also stated this in multiple interviews with Gretta and others on TV. I mean if her cell phone wasn't ON then it was OFF. It went right to voice mail when Rob, her Manager at CFI and the Kesse's called her that morning. You need 8 hours without a Ping from a cell phone to get dumped directly into voicemail. And remember she wouldn't turn her cell phone off herself and so she definitely didn't leave her condo without it ON. The only way that cell phone leaves her condo is if it's ON and with her and that window is 9:57PM to 10:40PM, most likely the former.

It may be one of those long term pesky rumors associated with this case about the phones being turned off at 10:40 pm and the battery presumably removed but Drew Kesse has discussed this in interviews and even on the Jennifer Kesse Guestbook....I do not know why all of a sudden that the Kesse's " were never told" about the phones being turned off at 10:40 pm Monday night but Drew has mentioned this fact in several instances....Perhaps OPD wants this issue downplayed for fear that the person who did this will find out that OPD is onto them.....Admittedly , it is very confusing about the phones being turned off/not turned off....Surely , there is evidence via Jennifer's phone records etc....

Years ago there was some mention that someone had jiggled Jennifer's door knob during the night(per Jennifer) , I wonder if this is a separate occasion or perhaps the neighbor knocking on her door as she was speaking with Rob? Jennifer's locks were never changed but Drew said that he had installed a dead bolt after she moved into the Mosaic.....

marable said:

Years ago there was some mention that someone had jiggled Jennifer's door knob during the night(per Jennifer) , I wonder if this is a separate occasion or perhaps the neighbor knocking on her door as she was speaking with Rob? Jennifer's locks were never changed but Drew said that he had installed a dead bolt after she moved into the Mosaic.....

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Hi, marable. Regarding the bold by me--can you support "as she was speaking with Rob" with a link?

My information indicates that it was never confirmed who Jennifer was speaking with at the time of the knock. (I'll link below.) I know there was a very active Facebook discussion which followed the podcast where someone speculated it was Rob and things rapidly went from there.

This is important to the timeline, but I would think we need to confirm it. And I don't think a Facebook discussion--based on one person's personal idea--is good enough. Maybe we can state it as rumor, but not as fact.

This is all I have. I hope you have more.

At about 9 minutes in:
Mr. Kesse: Now there was a knock on her door that Monday night and she believed it was her neighbor upstairs. It was a guy. She didn’t answer it.
https://audioboom.com/posts/6396347-unit-2226

Also, here is a snippet of Shaun's reply in the Sidebar after the above episode:

At about 5:54 minutes in:
Shaun: The knock on the door is certainly one of the interesting pieces of information that came out of last episode.

And up front, I’m not clear on exactly how Drew Kesse knows that the neighbor knocked on her door that night; or even what time it happened. I haven’t had a chance to follow up with him on those questions yet.
https://audioboom.com/posts/6418212-sidebar-10-22-17

Truth Prevails said:

Hi, marable. Regarding the bold by me--can you support "as she was speaking with Rob" with a link?

My information indicates that it was never confirmed who Jennifer was speaking with at the time of the knock. (I'll link below.) I know there was a very active Facebook discussion which followed the podcast where someone speculated it was Rob and things rapidly went from there.

This is important to the timeline, but I would think we need to confirm it. And I don't think a Facebook discussion--based on one person's personal idea--is good enough. Maybe we can state it as rumor, but not as fact.

This is all I have. I hope you have more.

At about 9 minutes in:
Mr. Kesse: Now there was a knock on her door that Monday night and she believed it was her neighbor upstairs. It was a guy. She didn’t answer it.
https://audioboom.com/posts/6396347-unit-2226

Also, here is a snippet of Shaun's reply in the Sidebar after the above episode:

At about 5:54 minutes in:
Shaun: The knock on the door is certainly one of the interesting pieces of information that came out of last episode.

And up front, I’m not clear on exactly how Drew Kesse knows that the neighbor knocked on her door that night; or even what time it happened. I haven’t had a chance to follow up with him on those questions yet.
https://audioboom.com/posts/6418212-sidebar-10-22-17

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I think it was assumed that since the info about the door knock came from Mr Kesse, that it was Rob who told him about it. Who do you think told Mr. k about it ?

liz b. said:

I think it was assumed that since the info about the door knock came from Mr Kesse, that it was Rob who told him about it. Who do you think told Mr. k about it ?

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Jennifer had several phone conversations on the evening of January 23, 2006.

It is my understanding--from the links in my above comment--that we do not know who she was talking to when an upstairs neighbor knocked on her door that evening. Actually, we don't even know for a certainty if she was talking on the phone when the knock occurred. We really don't know how Mr. Kesse came across this information.

Also, it is my understanding Mr. Kesse never stated a time for the knock.

To the best of my knowledge Mr. Gurd has never followed up on this. If he has, please link it, or at least explain where this information is coming from as best you can.

It's important to the timeline and I would like to know, too--if it's based in fact.

Truth Prevails said:

Jennifer had several phone conversations on the evening of January 23, 2006.

It is my understanding--from the links in my above comment--that we do not know who she was talking to when an upstairs neighbor knocked on her door that evening. Actually, we don't even know for a certainty if she was talking on the phone when the knock occurred. We really don't know how Mr. Kesse came across this information.

Also, it is my understanding Mr. Kesse never stated a time for the knock.

To the best of my knowledge Mr. Gurd has never followed up on this. If he has, please link it, or at least explain where this information is coming from as best you can.

It's important to the timeline and I would like to know, too--if it's based in fact.

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I thought that Jenn said it might be her upstairs neighbor, not that it was for sure ? And, yes, it's true that very little is actually known about the knock on her door. IF it happened,though, I would find it fairly important. jmo

It was discussed on one of the Unconcluded Podcasts a month or two ago....

marable said:

It was discussed on one of the Unconcluded Podcasts a month or two ago....

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Yes, I have linked both the podcast and the sidebar episode where it was discussed, plus added transcripts.

It seems to be the conclusion of Mr. Gurd that he, himself, did not know how Mr. Kesse knew about the knock or what time it occurred.

I have listened to everyone of the Unconcluded podcast episodes more than once.

If you know of one that has given additional information on the knock on Jennifer's door--ie, that it was Rob she was talking to at the time--I am respectfully asking you to link it.

Please and thanks.