Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion

Lilibet said:

:blushing: That was a seriously brilliant catch on your part, Tortoise! :great: I wouldn’t have even noticed if you hadn’t posted. I trust Mr Greer is equally brilliant. It would be a nice little slam dunk in his closing remarks!

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Unfortunately he can't because the detective's (cough) comment was struck from the record.

It's a bit of a double edged sword for Mr Greer. Either he has it on record that JS said he told Rebecca Max was going to die and the door message makes no sense, or he has it on record that the doctor had not given JS the bad news until after Rebecca's death and therefore there was no bad news message to Rebecca and no reason for her to be suicidal.

I don't mind that the jury heard her say it (even though they've been instructed to disregard it) because they are going to think why would Rebecca have painted that she saved him then.

kay74 said:

Screams were heard at 11:30. Nina was in front of the house less than an hour earlier. Could she have gone to the guesthouse to talk to Adam and get him riled up about Rebecca? It's something to think about. Have they questioned her about this and if she went to the guesthouse? Probably not!

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Thank you :wave: I could not remember how close the scream was heard in relation to Nina walking to the mansion and Nina’s text messages to Rebecca.

SNIP-

"I just wanted to talk to her about the accident and so I sent her a text message that just said, 'Hey, are you around? I'd like to come by.' And, I never heard from her. She never responded to me. It went nowhere because I didn't get any message back from her," Romano told News 8 during a September phone interview.

The text message was backed up by phone records obtained by News 8, which showed Romano's text was received by Zahau at 10:41 p.m. on July 12. Romano disputed that time stamp and said she sent the message closer to 9:41 p.m. on July 12.


Max Shacknai’s aunt at mansion hours before Zahau’s death Nov 02, 2011
www.cbs8.com/story/15941030/max-shacknais-aunt-at-mansion-hours-before-zahaus-death

MP3 of Nina Romano’s interview:
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/nina_romano.mp3

Thanks Lezah for the excellent recap!

This part:

Mr G kept objecting as they tried to get the detective to state what was allegedly in the message ( when she never heard it) ...lacks foundation, calls for speculation. At one point the detective stated that JS told her that his message consisted of an apology for not calling earlier, that max was brain dead, and they would have to decide on donating his organs the next morning.

Then Mr G asked for a motion to strike the comment from the record, the judge agreed (as it was hearsay) and the jury were told to disregard it - this is what was in the press article, but it was actually disallowed by the Judge..

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I wonder why Mr. Greer was objecting to that info? Didn't the jury already hear Dr. Peterson say the bad news didn't come until AFTER Rebecca's death? But the lead Detective is saying Jonah told her he left a message that Max was brain dead?

Seattle1 said:

link contains a lot of details about phone calls. News 8 investigated the listings on RZ cell phone log within 48 hours of her death.

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15538406/...s-of-zahau-phone-records?clienttype=printable

"...The records document the final voice calls and text messages that went back and forth to Rebecca Zahau in the hours before she was found hanging from a second-story balcony at the Coronado mansion on July 13.

The new call logs reveal that after Zahau's death, San Diego County Sheriff's homicide detectives waited more than a month to power up her cell phone and check for voicemails.

Homicide Lt. Larry Nesbit said this week that detectives decided to wait to manually examine the phone, because they were concerned that operating the Samsung Focus Window Phone might overwrite evidence in the device's memory.

The smart phone is a relatively new model and detectives initially were unable to obtain software to forensically examine the phone, Lt. Nesbit said.

On August 15, a detective finally powered up the phone and discovered that a voicemail left by Zahau's boyfriend, Medicis Pharmaceutical CEO Jonah Shacknai, had been deleted.,,,"

"...The cell phone records confirm someone listened to Zahau's voicemail for two minutes at 12:50 a.m. on July 13, about two hours before her estimated time of death...."

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^THIS in red^

Over a month later, LE “finally” powers up the phone only to discover the VM had been deleted. Really, the alleged suicide trigger was not looked for immediately? The alleged statement Jonah gave to LE the very day Rebecca was found allegedly hanging? Day one, mere hours, the suicide theory was in full spin, imo.

Then on the August 24th, over 45 days later, LE requested search warrants for phone records for several key players, including Rebecca and Jonah. The lead detective on the stand yesterday, Tsuida, waited 45 days to request Rebecca’s phone records. Imo, no need to rush, this was a suicide - Jonah and Sheriff Gore have confirmed.

SW 11-164
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_11-164.pdf

SW 11-165
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_11-165.pdf

Update from Rebecca’s ..


Day #4 of week #3 trial was long one again. Detective Tsuida was on the stand and the defendant’s attorney questioned her about the San Diego Sheriffs Department investigation. She tried to portray that they did everything and came to the conclusion of suicide because they did not have anything to support otherwise. Detective Tsuida said their basis was Rebecca’s 5 lb weight loss from 7 months prior, her being molested as a child (although they didn’t investigate into it), her frustrations with Jonah’s older kids esp the teenage daughter, and her 2 journal entries on her phone expressing her frustrations about Jonah’s kids and their relationship, and finally the supposed phone message from Jonah at 1248AM on 7/13/11 that no oneelse has heard. The Sheriffs department did not bother to retrieve the message on time.

It is so frustrating to sit through and listen to them nitpicking her human mistakes as if they have not taken enough from her.

After lunch, attorney, Greer cross examined her by questioning about no DNA on items and places where there should have been such as knives, paint brushes, door knobs, doors etc, fingerprints on blade of the knives vs on the handle, and no fingerprints on items and places that should have had plenty. She kept deferring the responsibility to the departments that did those testings even though she was the lead detective and made the final conclusion together with the ME, Dr Lucas.

She could not explain why there was blood on the handle of the knife used to sexually assault Rebecca. Instead she kept saying the ME said there was no signs of sexual assault and the rape kit was negative. She did not have explanation for the deep bruise on her back. She could not answer why she didn’t think as the lead investigator that these findings were suspicious. When asked if any of this findings would have changed her opinion, she testified that the end result/ their conclusion would not have changed by any of this because they do not look at individual findings. The San Diego Sheriffs department made up their mind that its suicide no matter what the findings are.

It’s been a long week. The trial resumes on Monday 3/19/18 @915 AM San Diego time. Thank you all who have supported us financially, with prayers, and encouraging words. I appreciate you all!

Help spread the word!

https://www..com/rydrn-justice-for-rebecca

I think Det. Tsuida just gave us more info into the alleged voicemail. She is more specific in her testimony, brain dead and organ donation. This completely counters what Dr. Peterson testified to in his deposition. So, not only did Jonah know more than the doctor about Max’s condition, Jonah was already thinking about organ donation? Ok, and now we learn Rebecca’s phone was never fingerprinted. A lot of missteps around this alleged voicemail which SDSO used as motive for suicide. Just wow!

Snip-

Tsuida testified that Jonah Shacknai told investigators he left a phone message for Zahau the evening before her death, saying his son was brain dead and that he would have to decide whether to donate his organs.

www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-zahau-phone-messages-20180315-story.html

I actually think JS lied about what he said in the alleged voicemail to help the suicide narrative along. I base my opinion on the doctor saying they did not have this consultation in the hours between JS and Rebecca seeing each other at dinner and the voicemail.

Leza - :yourock: Thank you sooooooo much!

Mica said:

Messages on Rebecca Zahau's phone paint picture of troubled woman, investigators say

To sheriff’s investigators, the messages found on Rebecca Zahau’s cellphone after her bizarre hanging death at a Coronado mansion painted the picture of a troubled woman.

In the notes, Zahau described being disrespected by her boyfriend’s two older children and hated by his two ex-wives. She laments not having children of her own.

“I find myself not being able to sleep for the first time in my entire life… now when I close my eyes my mind begins to race… thinking and brewing over many situations and trying to come up with a solution of some sort,” one of the messages read. “… if I am not thinking, I am crying.”

Another message said, “No amount of money is worth what I’m going through.”

Snip

During her testimony in San Diego Superior Court, Det. Angela Tsuida, who led the sheriff’s homicide team that investigated Zahau’s death, said the messages were one of many pieces of evidence that led authorities to declare the death a suicide.

“It gives us a picture of her mindset at the time… she wasn’t happy,” Tsuida said .

On Thursday, attorney C. Keith Greer, who represents the Zahau family, rejected the notion that the cellphone messages meant Zahau was suicidal.

He also questioned other observations that investigators included in their determination that she died by her own hand, including that Zahau had been molested as a child.

More here:
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-zahau-phone-messages-20180315-story.html

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The attorney also noted that investigators never tested the phone for fingerprints, making it difficult to determine who handled the phone when the message was received.

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We questioned this for years. Results of those tests would have been key in determining what happened that night. How is it the item most critical to SDSO establishing motive for RZ's suicide is not tested for fingerprints? Based on that information alone, the California AG Kamala Harris should have ordered an independent investigation.

Recall Nina R kept stating that Rebecca had "handed her phone to Nina" to ask for help in using it. Yeah, just like Nina never touched the gate when she went to the back of the mansion.

Tortoise said:

I actually think JS lied about what he said in the alleged voicemail to help the suicide narrative along. I base my opinion on the doctor saying they did not have this consultation in the hours between JS and Rebecca seeing each other at dinner and the voicemail.

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I've always believed that from the start - JS lied about what was in his VM message. Why didn't any of these doctors speak out during the initial investigation? They should be ashamed.

I also never believed AS took Ambien that night.

*Lash* said:

I think Det. Tsuida just gave us more info into the alleged voicemail. She is more specific in her testimony, brain dead and organ donation. This completely counters what Dr. Peterson testified to in his deposition. So, not only did Jonah know more than the doctor about Max’s condition, Jonah was already thinking about organ donation? Ok, and now we learn Rebecca’s phone was never fingerprinted. A lot of missteps around this alleged voicemail which SDSO used as motive for suicide. Just wow!

Snip-

Tsuida testified that Jonah Shacknai told investigators he left a phone message for Zahau the evening before her death, saying his son was brain dead and that he would have to decide whether to donate his organs.

www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-zahau-phone-messages-20180315-story.html

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Why didn't Det Tsuida reveal this information in the original investigation? Why was it kept secret? These people should retire or lose their jobs.

On Thursday, Tsuida talked in detail about what sheriff’s officials have said was lack of evidence pointing to homicide in this case. She said investigators analyzed areas that would have been touched in the moments leading to Zahau’s death.

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BBM. But they didn't think it was necessary to test RZ's cell phone? :banghead:

The narrative on the phone call from JS keeps changing.

#a. Did he call to apologize for not calling earlier? Or did he call angry? Did he call to tell her it was over and she needed to go? Because I've heard all 3 and they really don't all work together.

b. Did he call to say Max had not changed in condition? That Max had improved? Max had gotten worse? or Max was brain dead and we needed to consider organ donation? Refer back to question "a"...

From Leza-

* the large clump of hair found on the shower wall in the master was a ’handful’, of long dark hair and it was never collected OR tested - or thought significant (as there was a hairbrush in the shower)

I am curious where the hairbrush was found in the shower. Was it on the floor or a shower shelf? If on the floor or in an unusual area, could the hairbrush have caused the blunt force trauma?

vlpate said:

To me it is ludicrous to even suggest a grown man would "rape" a woman with the little handle of a steak knife - for what purpose?

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I don't understand this sentence. Help me out.
People are violated with objects.. ..it happens. It's not odd or unusual to find that the victim has been penetrated with an object in cases especially those staged to look like a rape. I'm not sure why you're so certain that "a grown man" wouldn't violate a victim with an object because it does happen.

Thanks so much for the recap, Lezah! I really appreciate the time you take to update us. 🌸🌺

Tsuida testified yesterday about the alleged Jonah VM. I believe I correctly understand, the content was leaked by professional attorney Dan Webb while interviewing Tsuida. A voicemail that was never heard and its very existence never proven. In my opinion, there is a pattern appearing of hearsay. Sheriff Gore, Lead Detective Tsuida and Crime Lab Director Grubb...because of statements made by Jonah Shacknai.

Snip-

Sheriff Gore said it was not necessary to test the underwear, based on his department's investigation and statements made by Jonah Shacknai.

"In the case of the underwear, it was determined through investigators that Jonah Shacknai's daughter, Gabby, and her girlfriends had stayed in the guest house up to a week before," Gore said. "It did not appear to be relevant to our investigation and not everything we seize in a crime scene is eventually submitted for forensic examination."

Grubb, the crime lab director, also was questioned about the underwear during the news conference.

"The underwear was collected but was not examined because of Jonah Shacknai's statement and the fact that we had better evidence as to whether Rebecca Zahau was sexually assaulted or not; and that was her body – and swabs recovered from her body – which showed no sexual assault," responded Grubb.

http://www.760kfmb.com/story/16068012/mixed-dna-all-over-zahau-death-scene-some-evidence-not-tested

*Lash* said:

From Leza-

* the large clump of hair found on the shower wall in the master was a ’handful’, of long dark hair and it was never collected OR tested - or thought significant (as there was a hairbrush in the shower)

I am curious where the hairbrush was found in the shower. Was it on the floor or a shower shelf? If on the floor or in an unusual area, could the hairbrush have caused the blunt force trauma?

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Was there even a hairbrush found nearby? I'm beginning to doubt pretty much everything these investigators have stated unless they have some proof to back it up.

BBM

Also, a "handful" of hair is a lot of hair. Not the amount you would usually lose while brushing your hair. The only time I lost handfuls of hair was when it was falling out during chemo. Healthy women don't lose that much hair while brushing or shampooing. I suppose that's why the evidence was ignored. Par for the course in this investigation.

From Leza-

* Could not explain why the balcony door, when tested with fingerprint powder, had a huge, dry clean patch/area at the handle, surrounding the handle and door jamb)

* (OMG the photo was quite unbelievable...IMO you could see where someone had actually wiped down the door)

Please, please, I would like to see this photo! Unfreaking believable...:gaah:

Betty P said:

Was there even a hairbrush found nearby? I'm beginning to doubt pretty much everything these investigators have stated unless they have some proof to back it up.

BBM

Also, a "handful" of hair is a lot of hair. Not the amount you would usually lose while brushing your hair. The only time I lost handfuls of hair was when it was falling out during chemo. Healthy women don't lose that much hair while brushing or shampooing. I suppose that's why the evidence was ignored. Par for the course in this investigation.

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Yes, according to Leza’s post. I probably should have quoted the segement. Bold below is from Leza.

* the large clump of hair found on the shower wall in the master was a ’handful’, of long dark hair and it was never collected OR tested - or thought significant (as there was a hairbrush in the shower)

www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?366653-Wrongful-death-trial-begins-Trial-coverage-and-discussion&p=13996037#post13996037

Pi2016 said:

There was nothing about JS's behavior toward RZ that was "devastatingly cruel" until Max fell and got fatal injuries.

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Just saying from a view of objectivity; there's no way we can know that and say for sure either way. And that statement is probably not true, to boot. Tigers don't change their stripes or suddenly grow them.