CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #5

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There is absolutely no proof (yet) that these women intentionally drove off that cliff. Could Jen have had a stroke? Could she have had a heart attack? Lost consciousness? Fell asleep? We have no idea. All LE has said is that drugs and alcohol were not a factor.

We have zero facts because no one is alive to tell us. The only person speaking out has said she was not starved or abused during the time she was in their care. I am hesitant to label them as evil abusers who were racist and starved these kids. Yes, it has been 5 years and they should've had HH's front teeth fixed but my daughters implants were $12,000 each for two lateral incisors plus a $6000 bill for braces on otherwise perfectly straight teeth. Sometimes a $30,000 orthodontic bill is not feasible as I sure as heck don't believe that people don't love their kids just because they cannot afford to get them braces. That is just ridiculous and hurtful.

On another note, I would bet money that if I made my kids eat "crunchy" foods or foods they didn't prefer and a neighbor was willing to sneak them chips and beef jerky, my kids would be over there every day saying we didn't have any food in the house. None of those 6 kids look "starved" to me as we saw with the Turpin children. My 14 year old is 90 pounds soaking wet and eats us out of house and home. Even sneaks downstairs at 2am to binge eat. She would probably tell you we withhold food from her since we only let her take 3 snack items with her sandwhich for lunch instead of 20 like she trys to take. And my first thought when I see the pictures of those precious kids is that they look happy and healthy in every single one.

I know my opinions won't be popular but I think too many people are jumping to conclusions too quickly without many facts.

I think the CHP gave us the proof that this was NO ACCIDENT.

They said the car pulled off the highway, into the Look Out area, and stopped 5 feet into the lot. Came to a complete stop. And then the car SPED FORWARD, covering 70 feet, and went over the cliff.

How could that be accidental? That could not be from a stroke, or from confusion, in my opinion.
 
Emma.laurens, I'm sorry -I didn't mean to remove anything in my repost. I think I wasn't really commenting so much on your comment, but just my thoughts on the photo. Your points were much more in-depth, actually doing some analysis on the photo and I appreciate your taking the effort to do so.

I really can't offer anything more to what you said, because I agree that the editing may contribute to their looking gaunt. However, I guess I'm just putting my gut reaction on seeing the photo with the food issues described in news articles and here. Thanks for much for uploading the photo, and responding to my comment here.

And I apologize for my short response. I was being overly sensitive, and you didn't really say anything offensive at all.
 
I got a breaking news alert that was supposed to be a PC on the other family but when I opened it, they were talking about this case.

Driver had a BAC of .102 and Benadryl was found in the systems of the others.

Can’t link to the video in my app...but I found this on FB...if you go to about 2:30 the sheriff discusses it.

https://www.facebook.com/ABC7/videos/10155449983567452/


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I think the CHP gave us the proof that this was NO ACCIDENT.

They said the car pulled off the highway, into the Look Out area, and stopped 5 feet into the lot. Came to a complete stop. And then the car SPED FORWARD, covering 70 feet, and went over the cliff.

How could that be accidental? That could not be from a stroke, or from confusion, in my opinion.

In addition to that LE determined no seat belts were worn.
 
I typed out a comment earlier and then in the middle of my typing - POOF! I'll start over. I felt at the beginning of this case that the Mom's may have started out with good intentions, became overwhelmed, lacked parenting skills and got in to a pattern of abuse UNTIL I read the article about the first foster daughter that I had not previously knew existed. I can't imagine anyone driving a child to a therapy appointment, never saying Good Bye or discussing the fact with the child, but having the therapist tell them they would not be returning to their home to find out later they had removed all of her items while she was in school! This is very cold, unfeeling behavior! This brings me to my next thoughts that I can't imagine a therapist not making a record of this to CPS and someone stopping the fostering of the three children arriving from Texas until the situation was investigated. I feel they demonstrated severe emotional abuse on the first foster daughter!

This is abusive behavior.
 
I got a breaking news alert that was supposed to be a PC on the other family but when I opened it, they were talking about this case.

Driver had a BAC of .102 and Benadryl was found in the systems of the others.

Can’t link to the video in my app...but I found this on FB...if you go to about 2:30 the sherif discusses it.

https://www.facebook.com/ABC7/videos/10155449983567452/


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She was alert and awake.

Estimation of MPH was 29 - 30, but could change. Baffling that there was no physical evidence at the scene. She was 70 feet from the edge.

Is there something delaying identification? Facial features affected by time in ocean so they are using familial DNA. Trying to rush that to get information to blood relatives as quickly as possible.

.102 blood alcohol, but can't speculate on the benadryl ingredient (maybe it is found in other things). Forensic pathologist will figure it out.

I can't hear the question but the officer is saying the front passenger and two of the three of the children "had it" but he hasn't gotten the results yet. Had what??
 
“The kids were regularly punished for common childlike and adolescent behavior, such as laughing too loudly or taking a small piece of food that was offered without permission from Jen. Her reactions were overblown, and the punishments seemed unnecessarily cruel,” Argyropoulos said.

She says the Hart family stayed with her for two weeks. That's when she realized Jen was not the loving mother she pretended to be. Instead, she says the family was run “like a regimented boot camp, where true kindness, love, and respect for the children was largely absent.”

Argyropoulos says on top of taking food away as a form of punishment, sometimes for a full day, Jen would also make them stand in a corner staring at a wall for extended period of times. She says usually these punishments were for small "misbehaviors."

After spending two weeks with the family, Argyropoulos says she confronted Jen and Sarah about the punishments. She says she even expressed concerns about the kids getting enough to eat even when they weren’t being "punished." After doing so, she says Jen and Sarah broke off contact.

http://katu.com/news/local/punishme...-family-friend-seeks-change-to-honor-children

Thank you, I had not read that article.
 
There is absolutely no proof (yet) that these women intentionally drove off that cliff. Could Jen have had a stroke? Could she have had a heart attack? Lost consciousness? Fell asleep? We have no idea. All LE has said is that drugs and alcohol were not a factor.

We have zero facts because no one is alive to tell us. The only person speaking out has said she was not starved or abused during the time she was in their care. I am hesitant to label them as evil abusers who were racist and starved these kids. Yes, it has been 5 years and they should've had HH's front teeth fixed but my daughters implants were $12,000 each for two lateral incisors plus a $6000 bill for braces on otherwise perfectly straight teeth. Sometimes a $30,000 orthodontic bill is not feasible as I sure as heck don't believe that people don't love their kids just because they cannot afford to get them braces. That is just ridiculous and hurtful.

On another note, I would bet money that if I made my kids eat "crunchy" foods or foods they didn't prefer and a neighbor was willing to sneak them chips and beef jerky, my kids would be over there every day saying we didn't have any food in the house. None of those 6 kids look "starved" to me as we saw with the Turpin children. My 14 year old is 90 pounds soaking wet and eats us out of house and home. Even sneaks downstairs at 2am to binge eat. She would probably tell you we withhold food from her since we only let her take 3 snack items with her sandwhich for lunch instead of 20 like she trys to take. And my first thought when I see the pictures of those precious kids is that they look happy and healthy in every single one.

I know my opinions won't be popular but I think too many people are jumping to conclusions too quickly without many facts.

If we're being honest... I have been holding off until we get some kind of official statement from the coroner or LE as far as their physical health is concerned. I don't think they look emaciated in their photos, either. I am an adult woman who stands at 4'9" and weighs 85 pounds. I also think they look happy and like they're having fun in the pictures. Where's the corroboration by the authorities that most of these things that are being speculated on are true? There is so much about this case that we don't yet know-including whether or not the drive off the cliff was intentional. I tend to think it was, but I am also open to the possibility that it wasn't. If we later find out that it was, indeed, an accident, will that reframe the speculation? I HAVE read all the articles and official reports and I do believe that the children were neglected and abused, I'm just not yet confident in calling them "evil" or such until more information is released.
 
I think the CHP gave us the proof that this was NO ACCIDENT.

They said the car pulled off the highway, into the Look Out area, and stopped 5 feet into the lot. Came to a complete stop. And then the car SPED FORWARD, covering 70 feet, and went over the cliff.

How could that be accidental? That could not be from a stroke, or from confusion, in my opinion.

Not a popular opinion but I still have doubts this was intentional. There is no way (at least right now) to say definitively either way. Technically it still could have been a medical issue. For example, my mom has epilepsy and gets an 'aura' before the actual seizure. During the aura she kinda goes blank or is highly confused THEN she has the seizure. What if Jen started feeling off (an aura or maybe something similar), pulled off the road and then floored it (not on purpose) when she actually seized. Could have been her first seizure ever for all we know if this did happen (my mom didn't start having them until she was 43). It is NOT impossible for something like this to happen.
 
She was alert and awake.

Estimation of MPH was 29 - 30, but could change. Baffling that there was no physical evidence at the scene. She was 70 feet from the edge.

Is there something delaying identification? Facial features affected by time in ocean so they are using familial DNA. Trying to rush that to get information to blood relatives as quickly as possible.

.102 blood alcohol, but can't speculate on the benadryl ingredient (maybe it is found in other things). Forensic pathologist will figure it out.

I can't hear the question but the officer is saying the front passenger and two of the three of the children "had it" but he hasn't gotten the results yet. Had what??

Thank you! I’m at work and wasn’t able to type out more. The last question is in reference to the Benadryl ingredient. Front adult passenger and 2 of 3 children had it in their system, waiting on the results for the 3rd as well as quantifying the amount.


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I have read your posts closely. I was responding to this one specifically:

Originally Posted by Sleuth99 :
Just because there are Black professionals (or other non/white people ) involved doesn't mean racism is absent. Black people (or other non/white people ) can help uphold the affects and institutionalized power of racism against black people (or other non/white people ) too.



It seems to me that you are saying that the black social workers and adoption workers were upholding racist actions against the birth family by following through on this adoption procedure.

And I disagree with that position.

Of course, the ending was horrific and tragic and should never have happened. But that still does not mean that they should have been left in their original home, given what they knew at the time.



ETA:

According to the appeals court opinion, the children's biological mother had three older children, one of whom had several bone fractures before being removed from his mother's care, who were born before the four trying to be adopted by the aunt. Of the second group, one sibling, Jeremiah, tested positive for cocaine when he was born in 2004, leading to family and protective services becoming involved with the family again, the appeals opinion said.

After the mother tested positive for cocaine when her seventh child was born in 2006, the state agency took custody of her four remaining children, and her parental rights were terminated.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2018/04/hart_children_should_be_remove.html

Mom tested positive. But it doesn't say the children had it in their blood stream, the only direct link is Jeremiah. The other two children? You have links or you're assuming?

You said:
It seems to me that you are saying that the black social workers and adoption workers were upholding racist actions against the birth family by following through on this adoption procedure.

And I disagree with that position.

I said they CAN. And that is true.

You said:
Of course, the ending was horrific and tragic and should never have happened. But that still does not mean that they should have been left in their original home, given what they knew at the time.

I never said that they should have been left in their original home. Where are you getting this from?

My words are constantly misinterpreted.




IMO
 
Thank you! I’m at work and wasn’t able to type out more. The last question is in reference to the Benadryl ingredient. Front adult passenger and 2 of 3 children had it in their system, waiting on the results for the 3rd as well as quantifying the amount.


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Thanks!

So maybe they were all carsick, or maybe someone wanted them on the drowsy side. :(
 
http://www.columbian.com/news/2018/apr/13/police-driver-in-hart-family-cliff-crash-was-drunk/

Police: Driver in Hart family cliff crash was drunk
SAN FRANCISCO — Police say a Woodland woman was drunk when she drove off a California cliff last month in SUV with her wife and six children inside.


(Above seems to be all there is to the article. Just wanted to post for non Facebook users.)

Thanks for sharing! I wonder how this will affect LE's interpretation of the crash.
 
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