The Re-Ordered American Girl Doll..

the message 'we know you killed your daughter' assumes the doll is significant in the murder - ? Interesting that there was a bible open to a psalm about wrongful accusations (the R.'s doing that to say 'hey, look, we're being framed' or one or the other trying to pin it on the other or?? makes my head spin!)....what psalm was it?? I'm going to guess it wasn' the only psalm on that page?
 
Interesting point. But the cord as it comes on the doll is not nearly as long as the cord used on JBR. And the dolls don't come with tape. It is suggested by the doll's manufacturer to put a piece of duct tape in the back of the doll over the cord around the doll's neck.


DeeDee249,
So if the Doll Purchase as a replacement vehicle is out, why buy a doll in such a secretive manner, and for whom?


Maybe its as simple as the doll was used to smuggle her size-6's out in etc?


Maybe its a deliberate false trail layed down by the Lounge Lizard and his background plotters and schemers?


.
 
but this post gives the timeline for the 'replacement doll' order-


Page 12 - Post #137

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5782&page=12

A few pages back from here the posts discuss the varying lengths of the cords from doll to doll and how possible it was to have removed the cord from one of the dolls and to have used it in the murder. It also discusses, if tape had been placed on the back of the doll as suggested by the company that made the doll, it could easily have been used over JBR's mouth.
 
I am completely confused about the duct tape on the dolls, and cords around their necks?? huh? I have two daughters. They each have multiple American Girl dolls (the premade ones, with the names and book series... Molly, Kit, Emily, Kirstin, Samantha. It seems they have another one too. geez, they have a lot of them). They also each have a My Twinn. None of them came with tape on them or cords around their necks. They are very well made actually. The only string around the neck that I can think of is the drawstring that is used to make them, but it doesn't even stick out. It is inside the doll. You don't even see it. As for tape. WHAT? There is no tape on these dolls! If they were taped together I certainly wouldn't have gone on to buy my girls more than one!!!
Well you can custom make American Girl Dolls with hair color, eye color, skin color, My Twinn is the company where you can actually send in a photo of your child and they will make one that looks like her.
 
How old are your girls dolls? Maybe they made a change in design.
 
I am completely confused about the duct tape on the dolls, and cords around their necks?? huh? I have two daughters. They each have multiple American Girl dolls (the premade ones, with the names and book series... Molly, Kit, Emily, Kirstin, Samantha. It seems they have another one too. geez, they have a lot of them). They also each have a My Twinn. None of them came with tape on them or cords around their necks. They are very well made actually. The only string around the neck that I can think of is the drawstring that is used to make them, but it doesn't even stick out. It is inside the doll. You don't even see it. As for tape. WHAT? There is no tape on these dolls! If they were taped together I certainly wouldn't have gone on to buy my girls more than one!!!
Well you can custom make American Girl Dolls with hair color, eye color, skin color, My Twinn is the company where you can actually send in a photo of your child and they will make one that looks like her.

The company was bought out (after JBR's dolls were manufactured/bought bt R's). Prior to the buy out the strings were much longer and hug outside, getting caught up in the velcro closure of the clothing when children changed the clothing and were in the way when the cord slipped out of the clothes when the child was brushing the dolls hair. The complaints apparently caused the original company to tell employees to suggest putting a strip of duct tape over the cord to hold it into place, as it could not be cut off due to the manufacturing design which held the dolls head into place.
 
but this post gives the timeline for the 'replacement doll' order-


Page 12 - Post #137

http://www.forumsforjustice.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5782&page=12

A few pages back from here the posts discuss the varying lengths of the cords from doll to doll and how possible it was to have removed the cord from one of the dolls and to have used it in the murder. It also discusses, if tape had been placed on the back of the doll as suggested by the company that made the doll, it could easily have been used over JBR's mouth.

angelwngs,
Lets get the intruder theory out of the way first. Any intruder or resident Boulder fruitcake would most likely have had any doll intended for JonBenet sent to her home address which they know since she was recently killed at that location. the Access address must imply it was an employee who was the intended recipient, suggesting either collusion there or that the John Ramsey intended to pick it up at some point?

I reckon this replacement doll is either highly significant, or is part of the Ramsey disinformation process, since part of the earlier conspiracy theories was that an Access employee had some grudge against John, so the doll may have been an attempt at supplying corroborating evidence.

My favorite theory for the doll is that JonBenet deliberately damaged the original in some manner leading to a fallout with Patsy, JonBenet may even have been captured on vhs tape making nasty remarks about the doll? In short, for the PDI people, it might not be a bed wetting and subsequent Toilet Rage that led to JonBenet's death, but instead a Doll Rage?

A secondary theory is that the original doll was used to transfer forensic evidence from the house, so any further testing may yield enough evidence to convict?

Both theories are not exclusive. With the near untraceable use of the money order and the recipient named as JonBenet, someone was either laying a fake evidence trail or purchasing a replacement.
 
angelwngs,
Lets get the intruder theory out of the way first. Any intruder or resident Boulder fruitcake would most likely have had any doll intended for JonBenet sent to her home address which they know since she was recently killed at that location. the Access address must imply it was an employee who was the intended recipient, suggesting either collusion there or that the John Ramsey intended to pick it up at some point?

I reckon this replacement doll is either highly significant, or is part of the Ramsey disinformation process, since part of the earlier conspiracy theories was that an Access employee had some grudge against John, so the doll may have been an attempt at supplying corroborating evidence.

My favorite theory for the doll is that JonBenet deliberately damaged the original in some manner leading to a fallout with Patsy, JonBenet may even have been captured on vhs tape making nasty remarks about the doll? In short, for the PDI people, it might not be a bed wetting and subsequent Toilet Rage that led to JonBenet's death, but instead a Doll Rage?

A secondary theory is that the original doll was used to transfer forensic evidence from the house, so any further testing may yield enough evidence to convict?

Both theories are not exclusive. With the near untraceable use of the money order and the recipient named as JonBenet, someone was either laying a fake evidence trail or purchasing a replacement.

Years ago, I posted here at WS, that I felt the doll(s) played a significant role in what led up to JBR's death. I still do. I can't come to terms yet with exactly how it probably happened, but I sincerely believe that the doll(s) are deeply involved.

Lets look again at why a replacement might have been needed and the timeline of when the order had to have been made in order for the doll to have arrived at AG when it arrived...

OK, the timeline of the order indicates that the crime was premediated and could have been carried out by family or an intruder, but most positively that it WAS premeditated, if the doll is involved in the crime.

I'm not sure about the 'fruitcake' theory. If one wanted to imply it was a AG employee they could have sent it to AG. The ransom letter implications and the 'throw them under the bus' implications suggested an AG employee...

-Sending it to AG and ordering it prior to JBR's death could indicate that the correct theory was that a doll had been damaged and it was a replacement or it was a new doll, which JBR did not yet have in her collection and was ordered prior to Christmas. (We do not know which ones she already had, correct? Did BPD request the records of all dolls ordered and mailed to the Boulder, Michigan and Atlanta addresses, including family member's addresses?) But if so, why send it to AG????
Where were the other dolls sent?

Maybe it was just an innocent order and all the dolls were sent to AG for JR to bring home so PR didn't have to deal with the doll being left on their doorstep if she were not home or having to go to the Post Office in case the mail person chose not to leave it at the doorstep. I have ALL of my deliveries sent to our business for my husband to bring home...

My head is spinning.. I can't think clearly about this order right now...
 
Years ago, I posted here at WS, that I felt the doll(s) played a significant role in what led up to JBR's death. I still do. I can't come to terms yet with exactly how it probably happened, but I sincerely believe that the doll(s) are deeply involved.

Lets look again at why a replacement might have been needed and the timeline of when the order had to have been made in order for the doll to have arrived at AG when it arrived...

OK, the timeline of the order indicates that the crime was premediated and could have been carried out by family or an intruder, but most positively that it WAS premeditated, if the doll is involved in the crime.

I'm not sure about the 'fruitcake' theory. If one wanted to imply it was a AG employee they could have sent it to AG. The ransom letter implications and the 'throw them under the bus' implications suggested an AG employee...

-Sending it to AG and ordering it prior to JBR's death could indicate that the correct theory was that a doll had been damaged and it was a replacement or it was a new doll, which JBR did not yet have in her collection and was ordered prior to Christmas. (We do not know which ones she already had, correct? Did BPD request the records of all dolls ordered and mailed to the Boulder, Michigan and Atlanta addresses, including family member's addresses?) But if so, why send it to AG????
Where were the other dolls sent?

Maybe it was just an innocent order and all the dolls were sent to AG for JR to bring home so PR didn't have to deal with the doll being left on their doorstep if she were not home or having to go to the Post Office in case the mail person chose not to leave it at the doorstep. I have ALL of my deliveries sent to our business for my husband to bring home...

My head is spinning.. I can't think clearly about this order right now...

angelwngs,
Any innocent order would be in the adults real name and probably be paid for by a credit card, so there is no doubt that the doll is suspicious and linked to the case.

Patsy had Burke's xmas gifts mailed from NY, along with other stuff purchased during their shopping trip there.

-Sending it to AG and ordering it prior to JBR's death could indicate that the correct theory was that a doll had been damaged and it was a replacement or it was a new doll, which JBR did not yet have in her collection and was ordered prior to Christmas.
Possibly but whats the big deal if its simply a replacement for a current damaged doll? There is no need to hide anything, once it arrives JonBenet is simply told Honey, your doll has arrived, and if its Patsy doing the ordering she would requested all the frills and glitzy packaging and had it sent to the Boulder address.

The Ramsey's are millionaires delivery schedules and cost is irrelevent to them they have retainers to deal with stuff like that.

When the actual order was placed is the important piece of evidence, prior to JonBenet's death suggests replacement afterwards implies either a false evidence trail or evidencial substitution?


.
 
angelwngs,
Any innocent order would be in the adults real name and probably be paid for by a credit card, so there is no doubt that the doll is suspicious and linked to the case.

Patsy had Burke's xmas gifts mailed from NY, along with other stuff purchased during their shopping trip there.


Possibly but whats the big deal if its simply a replacement for a current damaged doll? There is no need to hide anything, once it arrives JonBenet is simply told Honey, your doll has arrived, and if its Patsy doing the ordering she would requested all the frills and glitzy packaging and had it sent to the Boulder address.

The Ramsey's are millionaires delivery schedules and cost is irrelevent to them they have retainers to deal with stuff like that.

When the actual order was placed is the important piece of evidence, prior to JonBenet's death suggests replacement afterwards implies either a false evidence trail or evidencial substitution?


.

This is a Very Logical Conclusion! Thanks for downsizing the confusion running around in my head right now.

Additionally, I want to know if BPD have the records of all of the other dolls ordered!
 
Remember the Barbie doll that was found on the R lawn bound with tape with a noose around its neck? Someone put that there as a cruel prank. Maybe the American Girl doll was also a prank.
There was a local diner in Boulder that had these Barbie "works of art" displayed. In the movie PMPT they are shown suspended from the ceiling. I don't know if this was one of those dolls, but there is a photo of the one on the R lawn. If I can find it I'll post a link.
 
DeeDee249,
So if the Doll Purchase as a replacement vehicle is out, why buy a doll in such a secretive manner, and for whom?


Maybe its as simple as the doll was used to smuggle her size-6's out in etc?


Maybe its a deliberate false trail layed down by the Lounge Lizard and his background plotters and schemers?


.
I agree it seems to have something to do w. evidence somehow.I wouldn't rule out cord and tape on the doll,it could be anything.but since JR never brought the doll up,seems to me he's the one who had it sent to his office.
 
I agree it seems to have something to do w. evidence somehow.I wouldn't rule out cord and tape on the doll,it could be anything.but since JR never brought the doll up,seems to me he's the one who had it sent to his office.


JMO8778,
I'm not certain when the order was placed but with the order being in JonBenet's name, and the delivery address at AG, this seems to suggest either misinformation e.g. a conspiracy by a disaffected employee or a replacement for one contaminated with forensic evidence?

Is the tape enough, was it ever there, this we do not know. The cord does not appear to be long enough nor nylon. So the probability seems to lie with the conspiracy theory?

Another alternative is that JonBenet deliberately damaged the doll which became part of the dispute leading to her death? This and the red turtleneck are a couple of many elements that seem important, but just why escapes us?


.
 
Remember the Barbie doll that was found on the R lawn bound with tape with a noose around its neck? Someone put that there as a cruel prank. Maybe the American Girl doll was also a prank.
There was a local diner in Boulder that had these Barbie "works of art" displayed. In the movie PMPT they are shown suspended from the ceiling. I don't know if this was one of those dolls, but there is a photo of the one on the R lawn. If I can find it I'll post a link.

...but for the doll to have arrived when it arrived at AG, it had to have been ordered prior to the 25th of December, according to a poster at FFJ, who did all the mfg. and shipping, etc research.

The link for the FFJ post is posted earlier in this thread. (Sorry, but I haven't had my coffee yet, so not awake enough yet to repost it,,,)
 
For all of the newbies that had questions about the re-ordered American Girl Doll....this is an interesting read. It was posted over at Forums For Justice...by Tricia, she owns both Websleuths and FFJ.



Who Ordered an American Girl Doll, in the Name of JonBenet, on Januay 1st 1997 and had it Delivered to Access Graphics?


You all know the wonderful Jahazafat. Jahazafat, for years, has been screaming into the wind about the dolls, the fibers and the special order in JBR’s name in 1997. In fact Jahazafat has a website with some of the information. http://www.geocities.com/pinker44/
The problem I had with Jahazafat was not her story but how she came about the information. She didn’t have a reason to lie yet there was no source. I didn’t know what to do with her story.

Until now.

First, I want to thank Peggy (Little) for this information. It was posted first on Crime and Justice. I am grateful Peggy brought it to my attention.
http://pub165.ezboard.com/fcrimeandjustice13552frm78
Jahazafat worked for Pleasant Company. She saw the order in JonBenet’s name and where the doll was delivered to. Access Graphics. Jahazafat told me later that the order was paid for with a money order or cashiers check. No credit card trail.
Below is the email I received from Jahazafat concerning the dolls and the tape. Bold is mine.
`````````````````````````````````````````````````` `
I worked for Pleasant Company, owned by Mattel, which sells American Girl Dolls, from October 1998 to January 2004. I worked at a call center in Wilmot, Wisconsin. I worked as a variable order processor, which means I worked seasonally. The job was taking credit card phone orders for products and putting them into a computer system. It also involved fielding customer service issues and processing requests to mail the catalogue.
I read this in Perfect Murder, Perfect Town the last week of September 1999. "The day before, one of Patsy Ramsey's sisters had gone into the house with police permission and taken out an oil painting, several American Girl dolls, a portfolio of JonBenet's pageant photographs…”. I first thought it a testament to the wonderful products that the dolls were so special to be removed. But when I got to the end of the book there was a list that mentioned the duct tape had to be from ‘outside the house’. I had specific training that if a customer called in and complained about the cord attaching the head to tell them to duct tape it down. It could also be tucked in the clothing or sewn, but never cut, and for safety reasons, never pinned. The duct tape was presented as proof of an intruder but the dolls have a verifiable connection to duct tape and the Ramseys were allowed to remove them from the crime scene.
I did simple experiments with duct tape on a doll. If you tape the string down when you pull the tape off there remains a visible residue and it pulls out the white polyester stuffing, which sticks to the tape and makes it not sticky. Somewhere I read a reference to white fibers on the tape but have never been able to relocate those one or two lines. It’s likely these white fibers were the cause of the Santa Bear fiasco. The duct tape information upset me tremendously. I spoke to my father, an attorney, and he called Hunter’s office. He spoke with Leslie Aaholm. This was literally days before the GJ disbanded. I followed up the phone call with letters to Kane and Owens. From reading about Hunter’s office, he couldn’t be trusted 100% so as supportive back up, I called and wrote Craig Lewis. The GJ made no decision but Owens went on TV a few days later talking about ‘new evidence’ and Henry Lee had come to town. It was encouraging but nothing more happened.
I bought a PC out of frustration early in 2000 to follow the case online. I read more about the evidence and in particular ‘mysterious’ fibers found on the body and clothing. Sometimes they were listed as blue and sometimes they were dark. I looked at a Molly doll in a display case and gathered at her feet were thousands of navy blue wool fibers that had shed from her skirt. As with the duct tape, there was an eerie connection.
In September 1999 a computer search with the Ramsey’s Boulder address revealed a catalogue sent to JonBenet in 1996. A separate search had shown an order for a Samantha doll sent to Patsy in Charlevoix in July 1996. Computer searches are done with zip code and last name. In the spring of 2000 I searched and found an order listed as ordered by and shipped to JonBenet herself on Pearl Street, January 1, 1997. I about fell off my seat. I never saw the paper order, only computer documentation. Mail orders are processed in Middleton, WI for speed in delivery as that is were they are received. It also was years before and paper copies are shredded within two weeks of processing. A search with Nedra’s name and zip showed an order from early September 1996. Nedra’s computer file has the misspelling of Nedba. I could go on with pages of information about the orders and the computer systems but it's very technical.
As with the duct tape information, I wrote letters to Kane, Owens, and Lewis with info about the dark fibers and the doll sent to Access Graphics. I also emailed the Boulder Police department. and Chuck Green. There was never anything other than computer generated receipt confirmations; I think those came from Owens. This was spring 2000. I waited years before I posted much online. I held out hope that it would be investigated. A year or two later Smit came out with information about tan cotton fibers, which only cemented the doll connection, as the torso is tan cotton. This revelation had me again writing and emailing to the same list and then some. I have shared; written, called, or emailed this story to hundreds of people. Anytime the Ramseys appear on TV, I rebut with my story. Anytime I read of another Ramsey lawsuit I contact the defendants. I have not been silent but oddly, I have never been asked a single question either.
About using duct tapes on the dolls, employees don’t all receive the exact same training. Training sessions are small-unscripted affairs. It may have just been an off the cuff remark. I asked a few fellow workers and none related any duct tape training. It is not even a huge issue and in the course of my employment I only received a handful of calls about that cord. My father though did call and after several tries got the recommendation to use duct tape. I know the person I heard it from was trained by Middleton, not Wilmot which may account for the discrepancy.
I never felt comfortable speaking up when I was employed, as it is a sensitive issue. The products are for young girls and association with a crime is less than ideal. I have friends who support families based on the success of the company. But if I look at the larger picture the information needs to be available so other law enforcement agencies can learn from what went so drastically wrong. If it is used to prevent a single crime against a child it’s worth it.
 
Hi Ames.

Ty. All that information and the described trail back to the Ramseys, fascinating. That info combined with the "Santa Bear fiasco" ..... is very suggestive.


http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/extra/ramsey/0129ramy1.shtml

DA casts net for a Santa bear
Hunter asks public to help locate toy or ID its maker as possible clue in JonBenet case


The white bear dressed in a Santa suit puzzles authorities. Its whereabouts apparently are a mystery, adding a twist to the tangled 2-year-old case.
Family members say the bear did not belong to JonBenet, the 6-year-old beauty princess found murdered in her family's basement the afternoon of Dec. 26, 1996.

"It wasn't hers," said the child's aunt, Pam Paugh. "I believe it was on the other (twin) bed in JonBenet's room." "It's an example of something left in the house that didn't belong there and wasn't owned by any member of the family. And, that's pretty significant, in my book."

The bear is not listed among the hundreds of items seized from the Ramsey's upscale Boulder home during the 10-day search that followed discovery of the child's body. That and Hunter's unusual public appeal indicate it's not in the possession of authorities.
 
Hi Ames.

Ty. All that information and the described trail back to the Ramseys, fascinating. That info combined with the "Santa Bear fiasco" ..... is very suggestive.


http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/extra/ramsey/0129ramy1.shtml

DA casts net for a Santa bear
Hunter asks public to help locate toy or ID its maker as possible clue in JonBenet case


The white bear dressed in a Santa suit puzzles authorities. Its whereabouts apparently are a mystery, adding a twist to the tangled 2-year-old case.
Family members say the bear did not belong to JonBenet, the 6-year-old beauty princess found murdered in her family's basement the afternoon of Dec. 26, 1996.

"It wasn't hers," said the child's aunt, Pam Paugh. "I believe it was on the other (twin) bed in JonBenet's room." "It's an example of something left in the house that didn't belong there and wasn't owned by any member of the family. And, that's pretty significant, in my book."

The bear is not listed among the hundreds of items seized from the Ramsey's upscale Boulder home during the 10-day search that followed discovery of the child's body. That and Hunter's unusual public appeal indicate it's not in the possession of authorities.

Funny, because the Ramsey's and Pam denied the bear belonged to JB, but I read somewhere that they were handed out at one of the pageants that she was in.

This is also from the Rocky Mountain News...

"In 1999, investigators released a photograph and asked for the public's help in identifying a small stuffed bear dressed in a Santa Claus suit. It was found in the Ramsey home, and the girl's parents didn't recognize it.
Investigators later learned the bear had been a prize in a beauty contest won by JonBenet a couple of weeks before she was killed."

FROM AMES: Yet ANOTHER thing that the Ramsey's tried to blame on the intruder. And you know as well as I do...that Patsy remembered JB winning that bear.
 
PR and JR had been away for a few days in the weeks before the murder. During that time, JRB had won the 1996 "Little Miss Christmas" pageant there, and appeared in a parade. Nedra and Grandpa P were in Boulder babysitting JBR and her brother. There is a haunting photo of JBR riding in a car/float at that pageant, looking rather forlorn. The Santa Bear was given to at that pageant. PR wasn't there when she won it, but believe me, she knew where it came from. It was just convenient for her that she was away and could say she never saw it. As for the "mystery earring" that appears on the belt of the Santa bear, JBR always wore adult-style clip earrings in her pageant photos, and I'd bet that's why that earring was there. She may have worn them that night, clipping them on the bear when she took them off. Those clip-on earrings hurt- they are very uncomfortable. There was supposedly a matching single earring found in the street outside the house. I think this may have just been innocently dropped there- and probably never missed.
 
PR and JR had been away for a few days in the weeks before the murder. During that time, JRB had won the 1996 "Little Miss Christmas" pageant there, and appeared in a parade. Nedra and Grandpa P were in Boulder babysitting JBR and her brother. There is a haunting photo of JBR riding in a car/float at that pageant, looking rather forlorn. The Santa Bear was given to at that pageant. PR wasn't there when she won it, but believe me, she knew where it came from. It was just convenient for her that she was away and could say she never saw it. As for the "mystery earring" that appears on the belt of the Santa bear, JBR always wore adult-style clip earrings in her pageant photos, and I'd bet that's why that earring was there. She may have worn them that night, clipping them on the bear when she took them off. Those clip-on earrings hurt- they are very uncomfortable. There was supposedly a matching single earring found in the street outside the house. I think this may have just been innocently dropped there- and probably never missed.

Thanks for clearing that up Dee Dee. To hear Patsy tell it...you would think that she had NEVER been in JB's room before...after she received the bear. I know every stuffed animal in my 7 year old's room...because I do go in her room every now and then...LOL Patsy took any and everything that she could...from the bear, to a simple kleenex box...and made it look like she had NEVER seen them before....so the "intruder" must have brought those in with him....along with the tape, the rope, the bat, a flashlight...and whatever else we are supposed to believe that he brought into the Ramsey home that night. He must have brought a U-Haul truck with him.

I agree about the ear-rings.
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
72
Guests online
1,235
Total visitors
1,307

Forum statistics

Threads
591,787
Messages
17,958,877
Members
228,607
Latest member
wdavewong
Back
Top