Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #6

elliottness said:

I can't for the life of me figure out why no one from either Jock or Jane's family has even came forward to query the whereabouts of them. Even if Jock's father disowned him, the guy must have had friends, associates, co-workers that were concerned about him.

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A few thoughts...

1. Jock seems to be very similar in a lot of ways to my dad. Back in the early 70s, my dad got out of high school and proceeded to hitchhike all around the US and Canada for a few years and even flew over to Europe for a summer of hitchhiking around. My dad worked in some kind of a plant in Atlanta, he sold books door to door in New York State as well as all kinds of things in between. With the ability of transients to move, crossing multiple jurisdictions, state lines and international borders in a short amount of time...

2. Where would one begin? Let's say for the sake of argument that everything said about Jock is true, his dad was a doctor and Jock was disowned. Jock didn't want to be a doctor, so he took off. He didn't keep in contact with his parents, but maybe he sent siblings a postcard now and then or called long distance collect to keep in touch. He stopped and worked as a teacher and then maybe took off on a hitchhiking tour. By the time anyone would realize that he was /gone/, he could have dropped off the face of the earth and ended up dead and buried in rural South Carolina.

3. Given everything else we know about the county dragging its feet in the investigation, I doubt highly that they made an effort to publicize the case. The media got a hold of it and it was news across South Carolina, but if the parents or siblings were looking far away in Canada... With no Internet and little communication at that point in time across jurisdictional lines, the search would be very hard and time consuming.

4. Maybe the family just gave up and decided to let it rest. The other big case I follow here at WS is the Lyon sisters of Maryland. Their parents are described by people who know them as interested in finding out what happened to their daughters, but also having moved on with their lives.

rhyno1974 said:

Why do you think this? You are guessing now?

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Aren't we all guessing?

Fukiyama said:

A few thoughts...

1. Jock seems to be very similar in a lot of ways to my dad. Back in the early 70s, my dad got out of high school and proceeded to hitchhike all around the US and Canada for a few years and even flew over to Europe for a summer of hitchhiking around. My dad worked in some kind of a plant in Atlanta, he sold books door to door in New York State as well as all kinds of things in between. With the ability of transients to move, crossing multiple jurisdictions, state lines and international borders in a short amount of time...

2. Where would one begin? Let's say for the sake of argument that everything said about Jock is true, his dad was a doctor and Jock was disowned. Jock didn't want to be a doctor, so he took off. He didn't keep in contact with his parents, but maybe he sent siblings a postcard now and then or called long distance collect to keep in touch. He stopped and worked as a teacher and then maybe took off on a hitchhiking tour. By the time anyone would realize that he was /gone/, he could have dropped off the face of the earth and ended up dead and buried in rural South Carolina.

3. Given everything else we know about the county dragging its feet in the investigation, I doubt highly that they made an effort to publicize the case. The media got a hold of it and it was news across South Carolina, but if the parents or siblings were looking far away in Canada... With no Internet and little communication at that point in time across jurisdictional lines, the search would be very hard and time consuming.

4. Maybe the family just gave up and decided to let it rest. The other big case I follow here at WS is the Lyon sisters of Maryland. Their parents are described by people who know them as interested in finding out what happened to their daughters, but also having moved on with their lives.

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Hopefully the publicity on the Yakimchuk case might generate some attention to someone who is close to Jock or Jane and they might finally come forward. We have a very powerful tool here called the Internet. We can use this website, other message boards, social networking sites like Facebook and Twitter, and last but not least YouTube. If a video showing someone eating their boogers can generate a million hits then if we got half that number of people to read up on Jock and Jane we might help solve this mystery. Has anyone thought about creating a YouTube channel for Websleuths? Just a thought.

elliottness, what about the claim made by the KAO worker that Jock said he was a teacher?

Don't get me wrong, I love House M.D. so I know the theory for 'Everyone Lies' but I don't see any evidence to suggest that he was a truck driver. Not saying that you're wrong, by any means.. just curious as to how you got to this idea.

I think, most importantly, we need an LE source. Anyone? Please? Make contact with LE so that perhaps we can get some of these questions answered to the best of their ability.

So many theories, so many possibilities.... As far as Pee Wee Gaskins, while I was young when he was executioned, I did hear a lot about his case, especially after all the media coverage of Larry Gene Bell in the late 80's and early 90's. His story was kind of rehashed so to speak, I guess kind of in a comparison to Bell so to speak, since Gaskins was one of the first multiple murderers in SC to get so much noteriaty. I went to church with a man whose family grew up near Pee Wee's old stomping grounds, and there had been talk for years about all of the people that just "went missing" around him. According to this man when they would have family get togethers, the kids were always told stories about Pee Wee stalking the loacal area looking for "more bad boys and girls' souls to take," which seemed to work at keeping the kids in check, especially since they would often see him at that local gas stations and general stores driving around in his hearse with a shovel and a constant supply of dirt in the back. Sadly enough, he was executioned only after being convicted for making an IED out of a radio and using it to murder another inmate while incarcerated, not for the murders that LE knew he had comitted andconvicted him of on the outside (due to the death penalty being overturned in the early 1970's.) Yes, some of the rumors were that Pee Wee did snitch to LE, and If i remember correctly from a documentary on SC ETV (the state's PBS station) that was one of the reasons floated around widely back then as to why it supposedly it took LE so long to look into those missing people in his life (although I have a feeling it had more to do with Pee Wee just being that scarily a genious criminal with the ability to hide his crimes than with anything else.)

With that said, you would have thought that even after all the flack surrounding the Gaskins cases, and the rumors that were floating behind closed doors about that, SOMEONE in LE would have jumped on this case and tried to push to solve it, if for nothing else, to quell those rumors and reestabilish themselves as local heros. Who knows why this case ended up becoming cold so fast. Was it just the nauture of the crime its self (2 anonymous non locals left dead on the side of the road) or the nature of the underbelly of politics in SC at the time... we will never truely know.

The closest things we HAVE to possibly identifing these 2 are the autopsy photos/reports, a possible eyewittnes who thinks they spoke to 'Jock' in Santee at the KOA campgrounds, and the jewelry they were wearing. Such a frustrating case.

elliottness said:

Hopefully the publicity on the Yakimchuk case might generate some attention to someone who is close to Jock or Jane and they might finally come forward. We have a very powerful tool here called the Internet. We can use this website, other message boards, social networking sites like Facebook and Twitter, and last but not least YouTube. If a video showing someone eating their boogers can generate a million hits then if we got half that number of people to read up on Jock and Jane we might help solve this mystery. Has anyone thought about creating a YouTube channel for Websleuths? Just a thought.

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Ok, that You Tube idea is one of the wildest, yet brilliant ideas I have heard today... Not the millions of hits of a kid eating a booger (that just mystifies me that something that yuck could garnish so much attention worldwide.)

Administrators, has anyone ever thought about something like this, let alone tried to do something like this? Is this something that we as a site could collectively work on, like for certain cases? Would there need to be some kind of guidelines set up? Does anyone know what would have to be done, as far as including LE and staying well within legal boundaries? Is that something that LE would even be interested in doing? This would DEFINITELY be a major undertaing, but heck, I would be willing to make a day trip to Sumter do a impromptu taped talk to with an investigator or the ME in Sumter county just to get a few quotes or something, I have a You Tube account that I would even be willing to post any videos to.

I do believe this could be useful, but there woud definitely have to be some MAJOR investigation into all the legalities, ramifications, and possible backlash. Is this something that the administrators would even WANT to look into? It would definitely take A LOT of personal time on peoples parts. Then again, the people here seem to be extremely dedicated to finding the lost and giving the unknown their identities back, it could actually be possible. Though this would HAVE to be something site approved and justified.

Ok, I will stop rambling now.... I just had an idea flash after reading elliottness' comment, and my fingers and my hands went word crazy. :crazy::crazy:

eeyorelrn said:

With that said, you would have thought that even after all the flack surrounding the Gaskins cases, and the rumors that were floating behind closed doors about that, SOMEONE in LE would have jumped on this case and tried to push to solve it, if for nothing else, to quell those rumors and reestabilish themselves as local heros. Who knows why this case ended up becoming cold so fast. Was it just the nauture of the crime its self (2 anonymous non locals left dead on the side of the road) or the nature of the underbelly of politics in SC at the time... we will never truely know.

The closest things we HAVE to possibly identifing these 2 are the autopsy photos/reports, a possible eyewittnes who thinks they spoke to 'Jock' in Santee at the KOA campgrounds, and the jewelry they were wearing. Such a frustrating case.

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Leaving out all the speculation on LE corruption in the area, just read Helter Skelter, a documented case of law enforcement having all the pieces of the puzzle of a mass murderer's crimes right under its nose and just about blowing it except for a few lucky breaks.

youshouldveknown said:

elliottness, what about the claim made by the KAO worker that Jock said he was a teacher?

Don't get me wrong, I love House M.D. so I know the theory for 'Everyone Lies' but I don't see any evidence to suggest that he was a truck driver. Not saying that you're wrong, by any means.. just curious as to how you got to this idea.

I think, most importantly, we need an LE source. Anyone? Please? Make contact with LE so that perhaps we can get some of these questions answered to the best of their ability.

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I don't think that Jock lied. I didn't mean that he was employed as a truck driver, but perhaps he was driving a truck cross-country. I don't know.

Any news on Yakimchuk?

Didnt see it anyplace,but what kind of gun was used?

elliottness said:

I don't think that Jock lied. I didn't mean that he was employed as a truck driver, but perhaps he was driving a truck cross-country. I don't know.

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Oops, no no, I didn't think you thought Jock had lied, but more that the KAO guy lied about what he was told. Sorry for the confusion.

If the KAO guy was involved like some have theorized, this is plausible. And you're absolutely right, elliottness, Jock and Jane could have been travelling in a semi.

morf13 said:

Didnt see it anyplace,but what kind of gun was used?

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Hey morf, good to see you over here. Now that's a very good question regarding the gun because it started out reported as a Smith & Wesson .38 and morphed into a .357mag.

justthinkin said:

Hey morf, good to see you over here. Now that's a very good question regarding the gun because it started out reported as a Smith & Wesson .38 and morphed into a .357mag.

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Not sure about the above, but I know that you can shoot a .38 shell from a .357, but not vice versa. Perhaps it was mixed up in the repeated telling of the tale???

Excellent point, runr! I knew that, but it just didn't occur to me here.

youshouldveknown said:

Oops, no no, I didn't think you thought Jock had lied, but more that the KAO guy lied about what he was told. Sorry for the confusion.

If the KAO guy was involved like some have theorized, this is plausible. And you're absolutely right, elliottness, Jock and Jane could have been travelling in a semi.

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Also, remember that this was 1976 when CB radios were extremely popular especially with truck drivers.

Is anyone on here familiar with the Pacific Crest Trail? It is a long-distance hiking and equestrian trail from the US border with Mexico to its border with Canada. There is also the Continental Divide Trail which follows along the Rockies and Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado and New Mexico. Then there is the Appalachian Trail which passes through GA, NC, TN, VA, WV, MD, PA, NJ, NY, CT, MS, VT, NH, and ME. An extension, the International Applachian Trail, continues north into Canada and to the end near the North Atlantic Ocean.

Is it possible that Jock and Jane were hikers? One would have to be pretty athletic to be a hiker and Jock was pretty athletic. Also, they could have hitchhiked which explains why no car was recovered. And also is it possible that they hitched a ride with a bad guy who killed them?

Maybe if we do a search for "missing hikers" from that time period we could find them.

elliottness said:

Is anyone on here familiar with the Pacific Crest Trail? It is a long-distance hiking and equestrian trail from the US border with Mexico to its border with Canada. There is also the Continental Divide Trail which follows along the Rockies and Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Colorado and New Mexico. Then there is the Appalachian Trail which passes through GA, NC, TN, VA, WV, MD, PA, NJ, NY, CT, MS, VT, NH, and ME. An extension, the International Applachian Trail, continues north into Canada and to the end near the North Atlantic Ocean.

Is it possible that Jock and Jane were hikers? One would have to be pretty athletic to be a hiker and Jock was pretty athletic. Also, they could have hitchhiked which explains why no car was recovered. And also is it possible that they hitched a ride with a bad guy who killed them?

Maybe if we do a search for "missing hikers" from that time period we could find them.

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That is an interesting train of thought, HOWEVER, the Appalachian Trail, at its closest point, is still between 120 and 150 miles away from Sumter. There are several state parks within a very close distance of Sumter, including Woods Bay States Park, Manchester State forest, and Lee State Park that could have interested them, although they are not large by any means.

HOWEVER, something very interesting I found. Congaree Swamp National Monument is less than 20 miles from Sumter. In 1976, the Congaree Swamp National Monument was established by the 94th U.S. Congress; The Sierra Club had been working since 1969 to preserve the area. The work of the Sierra Club lead to this designation of the Congaree Swamp. If by chance Jock and Jane were hikers, this could be something that drew them to the area. I will include a link to the wikepidia page and the NPS page for the swamp. Could be inportant, could be just some swamp gas.. hehehe (sorry, couldn't help it)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congaree_National_Park
http://www.nps.gov/cosw/

Just a passing thought, brought on again by elliottness... Dude, you make me think too much sometimes.. JK :crazy:

Also, Jane didn't have the proper footware to hike. She had on heeled sandals. Few hikers bother carrying cute shoes in their gear. Plus, Jane's feet were described as being in good condition. I've hiked enough to know that no ones feet are attractive after a certain amount of hiking.

Jane was clean, including her sandaled feet. That doesn't seem like someone who was hitchhiking either. I feel like they had to have a car of some kind.

AMP1979 said:

Also, Jane didn't have the proper footware to hike. She had on heeled sandals. Few hikers bother carrying cute shoes in their gear. Plus, Jane's feet were described as being in good condition. I've hiked enough to know that no ones feet are attractive after a certain amount of hiking.

Jane was clean, including her sandaled feet. That doesn't seem like someone who was hitchhiking either. I feel like they had to have a car of some kind.

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Good point. I was going to ask about their shoes. Most likely they were driving a car like a truck or just a standard vehicle. But they could have also been driving an RV/camper.

AMP1979 said:

Also, Jane didn't have the proper footware to hike. She had on heeled sandals.
Few hikers bother carrying cute shoes in their gear. Plus, Jane's feet were described as being in good condition.

I've hiked enough to know that no ones feet are attractive after a certain amount of hiking.

Jane was clean, including her sandaled feet. That doesn't seem like someone who was hitchhiking either. I feel like they had to have a car of some kind....

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AMP, You are correct.
IF I remember correctly, it was reported both Jane and Jock looked to have just had a manicure and pedicure.

Sumter and the Darlington area is pretty rural. I don't know if this has any bearing on the law enforcement and judicial officials there, but it's a very rural area.