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I stuck around with my daughter Ariana to see Santa.
We hadn't planned to stay, so Ariana wasn't dressed up.

Patsy gave my daughter a Christmas sweater and a vest. Even lent her a pair of her shoes.
At the last minute, Patsy wrote a little verse about Ariana for Santa to read.
LHP


I marvel when the poor give to others out of their lack.
I forget to cherish those who with abundance give to others without fanfare or ulterior motives.
This little story was not headline grabbing.
It has been overlooked, completely, as far as I know.
But, Patsy Ramsey went out of her way to provide the child of a mother of six children with
a sweater,
a vest and
shoes
so she would feel comfortable as she watched Santa.

Best of all, she put pen to paper, and at the last minute, she wrote a little verse about Ariana for Santa to read.

The monetary value of a gift is nothing.
The kindness and thoughtfulness are priceless.
I don't know why, but this old song surfaced in my thoughts just now.

Little Baby
pa rum pum pum pum
I am a poor boy too,
pa rum pum pum pum
I have no gift to bring
pa rum pum pum pum
That's fit to give our King
pa rum pum pum pum

Then He smiled at me
pa rum pum pum pum
me and my drum.

I wonder, was it appreciated by her parents or seen as an 'act of charity' from someone rich beyond their wildest dreams, who was simply trying to impress her friends with her benevolence towards her 'poor' housekeeper's daughter? Do such acts endear one to the giver or merely reinforce the recipient's inferiority?
 
Originally Posted by WHITEFANG View Post
I stuck around with my daughter Ariana to see Santa.
We hadn't planned to stay, so Ariana wasn't dressed up.

Patsy gave my daughter a Christmas sweater and a vest. Even lent her a pair of her shoes.
At the last minute, Patsy wrote a little verse about Ariana for Santa to read.
LHP


I marvel when the poor give to others out of their lack.
I forget to cherish those who with abundance give to others without fanfare or ulterior motives.
This little story was not headline grabbing.
It has been overlooked, completely, as far as I know.
But, Patsy Ramsey went out of her way to provide the child of a mother of six children with
a sweater,
a vest and
shoes
so she would feel comfortable as she watched Santa.

Best of all, she put pen to paper, and at the last minute, she wrote a little verse about Ariana for Santa to read.

The monetary value of a gift is nothing.
The kindness and thoughtfulness are priceless.
I don't know why, but this old song surfaced in my thoughts just now.

Little Baby
pa rum pum pum pum
I am a poor boy too,
pa rum pum pum pum
I have no gift to bring
pa rum pum pum pum
That's fit to give our King
pa rum pum pum pum

Then He smiled at me
pa rum pum pum pum
me and my drum.


I wonder, was it appreciated by her parents or seen as an 'act of charity' from someone rich beyond their wildest dreams, who was simply trying to impress her friends with her benevolence towards her 'poor' housekeeper's daughter? Do such acts endear one to the giver or merely reinforce the recipient's inferiority? MF
Good point. Apropos.

Something stands out to me, though, something just for the gift giver no matter who it is. It may seem like it was an afterthought in the mind of the song writer, but I am convinced it is everything.

Then, he smiled at me.....
 
Originally Posted by WHITEFANG
Good point. Apropos.

Something stands out to me, though, something just for the gift giver no matter who it is. It may seem like it was an afterthought in the mind of the song writer, but I am convinced it is everything.

Then, he smiled at me.....

Hmmmm, would this be understood by the housekeeper and her alcoholic husband do you think? I expect that it's just another insult they have had to endure.
 
Hmmmm, would this be understood by the housekeeper and her alcoholic husband do you think? I expect that it's just another insult they have had to endure.



Probably not understood or appreciated by most people, period. Even to mention this here may be interpreted as a ploy to strengthen one's position on her innocence, you know? Again, it isn't about anyone else. It is his nodding approval to her that is all important.

i think they understood. an act of kindness and a show of her sensitivity to the needs and concerns of those around her, whether or not they had money or status.

quite a striking juxtaposition with the menagerie of blood, death, and darkness.
 
Hmmmm, would this be understood by the housekeeper and her alcoholic husband do you think? I expect that it's just another insult they have had to endure.

Depends on the person. I see it for what it was- Patsy's kind gesture to be sure that LHP's daughter Arianna wouldn't feel uncomfortable at not being dresses in a nice Holiday outfit, as were the rest of the kids at the party. From what I read, all the kids were getting a small gift from "Santa" (not sure if each parent brought a gift for their own child for this purpose or if Patsy provided the gifts) and Santa was supposed to read a little something about each child. It was a sweet gesture so that Arianna would not feel out of place.
I would think LHP was appreciative- she thought the world of Patsy and her family, until she realized she was first on their suspect list. But I also understand that sometimes when people like LHP who spend then days cleaning the homes of wealthy people and then have to go home ad clean their own homes too may feel envious, even resentful, especially if they see the family they work for as ungrateful, obnoxious or mean. I don't think LHP saw the Rs as any of those things, though. Were the kids spoiled? Probably. Patsy self absorbed? Probably. But these things shouldn't make someone want to kill their child.
 
He had no reason to lie about this DD.

"22 LOU SMIT: What else do you remember right

23 at that time?

24 JOHN RAMSEY: I just remember just talking

25 and, (Come on baby.̃ And I tried to untie her

0167

1 arms; they were tied up behind her head.

2 LOU SMIT: Were they tied tight?

3 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, very tight.

4 LOU SMIT: They were very tight?

5 JOHN RAMSEY: I noticed a spot in her coat,

6 below the surface.

7 LOU SMIT: How do you know they were tied

8 tight?

9 JOHN RAMSEY: Because they were -- you know,

10 her skin was swollen around. And they were not

11 easy to get off. I tried to untie them quickly and

12 I just picked her up carried her upstairs. I was

13 screaming. In fact, I couldn't even scream.

14 And then I brought her upstairs into the

15 living room and later there, at one point, tried

16 to untie the not further, and Linda Arndt stopped

17 me from doing it.

18 LOU SMIT: The knot?

19 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.

20 LOU SMIT: Where?

21 JOHN RAMSEY: Up on her arms. And I didn't

22 notice the -- as I noticed the blood below the

23 surface, but I didn't notice this core around the

24 neck."

does it ever strike you how many times J gets his story screwed up?

interesting, too, that Patsy gave LHP a $300 bonus and agreed to loan her $2000 after working there for 2 months.
 
does it ever strike you how many times J gets his story screwed up?

interesting, too, that Patsy gave LHP a $300 bonus and agreed to loan her $2000 after working there for 2 months.[/quote

I thought LHP had been working there longer. One of her interviews (not with LE, but with the media) she stated that she first met JB when she was in pre-school, so I think she started working for them sooner. The Rs moved to Boulder when JB was 3. What I get from her article, LHP was working for a cleaning service called Merry Maids. The R house was far too big for one person to clean, so the agency sent 4 people, once a week. Eventually, that changed to Patsy having just LHP three days a week. I know there was a previous housekeeper, too. LHP states that she got the $300 bonus at the end of her first year working for Patsy, not at the end of the year. So from that I infer that she had been working for Patsy a year in October 1996.
 
Because there's a world of difference between wanting you child to have a good education because it's best for them, as opposed to having them participate in a frivolous activity (which does Odin-knows-what to their sense of self) because it's best for you.

Millions don't consider beauty pageants frivolous. Joni enjoyed them. Pee Wee football, Little League baseball, tennis lessons, etc., could be critiqued similarly by many. It doesn't necessarily follow that Patsy had an unhealthy obsession with these pageants and Joni's participation in them.
 
Hi MF.

Dresser?, athough it has nothing placed on the top surface.
Quilt Rack?
 
he screamed, he didn't scream

he brought the body to the living room, he laid the body down and Arndt took it into the living room.

He apparently did put the body down in the hallway (at the top of the stairs, leading to the living room) and that's why Arndt took it and put it under the Christmas tree (which was a bit weird too).
 
does it ever strike you how many times J gets his story screwed up?

interesting, too, that Patsy gave LHP a $300 bonus and agreed to loan her $2000 after working there for 2 months.[/quote

I thought LHP had been working there longer. One of her interviews (not with LE, but with the media) she stated that she first met JB when she was in pre-school, so I think she started working for them sooner. The Rs moved to Boulder when JB was 3. What I get from her article, LHP was working for a cleaning service called Merry Maids. The R house was far too big for one person to clean, so the agency sent 4 people, once a week. Eventually, that changed to Patsy having just LHP three days a week. I know there was a previous housekeeper, too. LHP states that she got the $300 bonus at the end of her first year working for Patsy, not at the end of the year. So from that I infer that she had been working for Patsy a year in October 1996.

00-00-0000
Worked for
Merry Maids
Ramsey House
Took 4 people
Once a week
Cleaning
Linda began
3 days week
$72 a day
Mon, Wed, Fri
9am to 3pm
Some Sat, Hol
On 10-27-1996
Got $300 bonus
12-23-1996
Linda took Patsy Paint Tray to basement

I thought it meant she started on 10/27/1996 and got the bonus on 12/23/1996
 
Millions don't consider beauty pageants frivolous. Joni enjoyed them. Pee Wee football, Little League baseball, tennis lessons, etc., could be critiqued similarly by many. It doesn't necessarily follow that Patsy had an unhealthy obsession with these pageants and Joni's participation in them.

Not by itself. But like I said, this is what Patsy knew and grew up with. It's what her mother TOLD her JB would do.

And while I agree with you about those sports, at least those have some value: learning teamwork, sportsmanship, strive to succeed. Far as I can tell, all these pageants do is turn little girls into divas. And for what?
 
Not by itself. But like I said, this is what Patsy knew and grew up with. It's what her mother TOLD her JB would do.

And while I agree with you about those sports, at least those have some value: learning teamwork, sportsmanship, strive to succeed. Far as I can tell, all these pageants do is turn little girls into divas. And for what?

Why sir! It's to catch herself a nice, rich, gentleman for her husband, that's why. Fiddle-de-dee!!
 
But enough of that. Perhaps a new perspective is in order. So, I defer to one with far greater wisdom in these matters than I have. FBI behavioral analyst Ron Walker was asked in a TV interview flat-out if he thought a parent were capable of doing this. This is his answer verbatim:

"Well, as much as it pains me to say it, yes. I've seen parents who have decapitated their children, I've seen cases where parents have drowned their children in bathtubs, I've seen cases where parents have strangled their children, have placed them in paper bags and smothered them, have strapped them in car seats and driven them into a body of water, any way that you can think of that a person can kill another person, almost all those ways are also ways that parents can kill their children."[/QUOTE]

Supe,
I know for a fact that parents have murdered their children. How could I dispute that? How could anyone?
That is not what I disagree with here, that parents could do this kind of thing.
What I find troubling about the theory as it is applied in this case is the dearth of evidence, the lack of credible information that moves me toward that rationale.
Frankly, the bits and pieces of "evidence" fall short, to me- IMO, of even a remotely convincing body of proof they they did this. I just don't see it, at all. That is my honest appraisal.
The "evidence" which points toward someone else, although not plentiful, makes much more sense to me. And, I am convinced that I view this entire set of circumstances through flawed lenses. No doubt, I as well as others, rely to some extent on our gut reaction, our intuition, our "sense" of others.
 
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