Mystery couple murdered in South Carolina, 1976 - #6

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their complexions appeared more Mediterranean to me and while I'm sure some Mediterranean French emigrated to Quebec, the olive colored complexions are not what I saw among the French Canadians on my visits to Montreal.

purely subjective, but at the same time I don't think too many Canadian women were running around with unshaved legs in the 1970's.
 
their complexions appeared more Mediterranean to me and while I'm sure some Mediterranean French emigrated to Quebec, the olive colored complexions are not what I saw among the French Canadians on my visits to Montreal.

purely subjective, but at the same time I don't think too many Canadian women were running around with unshaved legs in the 1970's.

I think we may be having some disagreement as to exactly what color "olive" in a complexion is.

There were as many Canadian women as American, I would guess -- in the 70's, it's more a sign of the hippie-liberation-free-spirit than of any particular nationality.
 
OK, call me crazy, but I am throwing a bit of international espionage into this case. Has the case of Yves Domergue (born 8/8/1954 in Paris, France – emigrated to Argentina in 1959 with 8 brothers and parents), and his Mexican girlfriend, Christina Cialeieta been discussed? They were apparently part of some left-wing militant group called the Revolutionary Workers Party in Argentina. There was some sort of junta in 1976, and several people “went missing”, including these two. The stories are conflicting as to when they actually went missing. Two “brutalized bodies” were found in September 1976 in Argentina, allegedly killed by the Argentine military dictatorship. They were not identified until JULY 2010 by a group of high school “sleuthers” from Argentina. Read here:

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/ce...tudents-crack-three-decade-old-murder-mystery

An amazing irony between the Argentina case and the Mystery Couple case is that this article states that “….Between all the participants, part of the story could be reconstructed: it is presumed that on September 24, 1976, Yves and Cristina were shot and thrown on the side of the provincial road….”

http://www.yvesdomergue.com/en/index.html

[FONT=&quot]Here is a comparison of their pictures with our Mystery Couple pictures:[/FONT]

I think the dates rule this couple out, but in reading about the Argentina "Dirty War" that started in 1976, I think we should investigate this angle. There are new websites up where efforts are underway to at least remember a lot of the people who went missing during this period of Argentina history. Here is one of the sites that has a lot of people's pictures, but I can't seem to link to them yet:

http://www.sansvoixsansvisage.net/rubrique8.html

This site seems to also be of interest:

http://www.memoriaabierta.org.ar/eng/principal.php

I wonder if it would be beneficial to contact some of the people at these sites and point them to this thread??? Thoughts??
 
Reannan, I agree that this should be looked into. The pictures you posted were some of the closest matches I've seen in a loong time! Good job!
 
I think the dates rule this couple out, but in reading about the Argentina "Dirty War" that started in 1976, I think we should investigate this angle. There are new websites up where efforts are underway to at least remember a lot of the people who went missing during this period of Argentina history. Here is one of the sites that has a lot of people's pictures, but I can't seem to link to them yet:

http://www.sansvoixsansvisage.net/rubrique8.html

This site seems to also be of interest:

http://www.memoriaabierta.org.ar/eng/principal.php

I wonder if it would be beneficial to contact some of the people at these sites and point them to this thread??? Thoughts??

It does look like a promising lead.
 
I found a site that has A LOT of pictures of people missing from Argentina. The pictures are really poor quality in most cases, but it appears you can search the site by the name of the person. This link is to an English version, but a lot of the links from there are still in Spanish, which I don't speak. If you google "Argentina Dirty War", it is horrible what transpired from both the militants and the government. So many people went missing! I guess I would like to think our SC couple were completely innocent of anything horrible, and simply escaped to the United States to avoid persecution but unfortunately, met an untimely death due to a random act of violence.

http://www.desaparecidos.org/arg/victimas/eng.html
 
OK, I emailed the desaparecidos.org website and asked them to take a look at our Mystery Couple. I will let you guys know what I hear.
 
This is probably not him, but the first pic does look similar to the sketch of the John Doe. The circumstance of the 7 year old saying he saw a body being buried definitely doesn't fit...but they never found the body. Also, the missing man's father thought he left to create a new identity since he wasn't doing well in school.

The height is a little off but not by much and I know if you asked family members my height if I became missing, they would probably take a guess but could easily be off by an inch or two. So unless the height of the missing person came from a medical record, I would assume it could be off by 1 inch or so. Obviously the Doe's height should be accurate.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/clinkscales_kyle.html
 
I found a site that has A LOT of pictures of people missing from Argentina.
http://www.desaparecidos.org/arg/victimas/eng.html

I never received an email response back from the desaparecidos.org site. So.... I have emailed the website in Argentina that I believe is operated by the family of Yves Domergue; the man from Argentina that went missing in 1976 with his Mexican girlfriend, Cristina Cialceta. They are not the missing couple, but a couple in exile from Argentina in 1976 makes SO much sense in this case!!! Somewhere in the world, there are two families that are missing their loved ones. I remain convinced that this case can be solved.
 
No responses yet on either of my previous two emails. I have emailed the New York office of a non-governmental organization called the 'Argentine Forensic Anthropology Team' (EAAF). It would be awesome to compare the DNA from our SC couple to the DNA database being compiled to investigate the missing people form Argentina's Dirty War.
 
Reannan, thank you so much for this site. I spent forever there last night looking at photos. I wish I spoke the language. I also kept a look out for names similar to "Jock".

I wonder if a couple leaving Argentina in the 70's would speak english? Maybe it was taught in school? "Jock" had an accent.
 
I have received a response from the organization who is working on a database of missing people in Argentina. The response sounds like they don't really think our SC couple would be from Argentina, but that is the EXACT reason that I would love to see their DNA profile added, and their case publicized in Argentina! Grieving families of people missing during 1976 from Argentina would probably never look in South Carolina for their loved ones! I have responded and look forward to further communication. Here is the essence of the response I received (names changed by me to protect me and the responder):

"Hello 'Reannan',

We appreciate your inquiry. The senior researcher in New York is currently out of the office, so I'm not sure exactly what steps we can take in relation to this case right now. In terms of the possibility of being from Argentina, from what I know, the US was not a common destination for Argentines going into exile, and those that did come were concentrated in New York City, and to a lesser extent, in Los Angeles. Another issue is that if someone died in exile, it is unlikely that their families would report them to EAAF, because we focus on recovering individuals disappeared only within Argentina. One final issue to bring up, as I'm sure you saw when you read about the Domergue and Cialceta case, is that they were not Argentine; Domergue was French, and Cialceta was Mexican. Their appearances were not necessarily typical of Argentines at the time.

I'll discuss the case with our senior researcher when she returns, as well as the possibility of Argentine governmental or non-governmental organizations that deal with persons gone missing abroad that you could contact. Sorry about the delay.

best,
[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Equipo Argentino de Antropologia Forense (EAAF)
New York Office
10 Jay Street, Suite #502
Brooklyn, NY 11201
www.eaaf.org
[/FONT]
 
ford_daniel.jpg
Just came across Daniel Joseph Ford missing since 1971. There is very little information about Daniel's disappearance available. I have attached the Charley Project link. I know that the height does not match and that Danny was 28 when he was last seen. But eye and hair color match; the photo of Daniel is similar to the John Doe. Daniel was a smoker (matches in JD's pocket from truck stop); the initials on the ring (JPF) could have been a relative (Father or Grandfather). Not sure how to gain more information about Daniel Ford. Dental record and scar information would be a great place to start. http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/f/ford_daniel.html
 
Reannan, thank you for bringing attention again to the possibility that this couple is Argentinian, and perhaps victims of the Dirty War. I do not post often, but this case is the one that has captivated my attention on WS. Some time back, I did a lot of research, leading to a theory of the identities of this couple. Actually, I am not the first reader to suggest the ID's of this couple. They were first brought up in early threads by other posters.

Here are pictures of the disappeared Argentinian couple that I have come to believe are our victims.

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k422/redmeli/MariaVazquezOcampoDeLugones_large.jpg

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k422/redmeli/CesarAmadeoLugones_large.jpg

This couple, Maria Vazquez Ocampo De Lugones and Cesar Amadeo Lugones, were kidnapped in May 1976 and presumed taken to the Navy Mechanics School where many of the disappeared were tortured and killed. There are scant records of them having been there, and a one line notation that she may have been pregnant. Many don't believe that she could be our female victim because at autopsy, it was indicated the victim had never been pregnant. I have two theories about this. One, she may have miscarried early in the pregnancy, or two, the eye-witness guard who alleged she was pregnant was either lying or mistook her for someone else. The only evidence of this pregnancy is a one-line statement under her name. I will post links to articles I referenced at the bottom of my comment, as they are numerous. They are also loosely translated from Spanish, and hard to decipher.

Anyway, in my research, I discovered that the priest by the name of Christian Von Wernich, who was complicit in the kidnappings and witnessed and possibly participated in the torture of these prisoners, had been a personal friend to Cesar's brother, Eugene Lugones. They were friends as young men, and Eugene had inside knowledge of the priest's unsavory tendencies. When his brother and sister-in-law disappeared, Eugene made an inquiry to von Wernich as to his brother's well-being. Von Wernich indicated that Cesar was indeed alive, but offered no further information. Eugene Lugones later testified in Von Wernich's trial in the early 2000's.

Von Wernich had lived in California in his youth, and had connections there, and in other parts of the U.S. due to his status in the Catholic church. I believe it very possible that he arranged to have Cesar and Maria relocated to the U.S., specifically California. That would explain why the couple had souvenirs from the Western U.S. I believe they may have been given a car and/or a small amount of money. I doubt they had anything but the clothes on their backs when they arrived in the U.S. The jewelry they wore was most likely purchased in their travels across country.

I believe they thought if they got to the East Coast, they might be able to return to Argentina when the war was over. Unfortunately, they never got that chance. I believe it is very possible that people in the Argentine military discovered that they had been allowed to escape, and pressure was put on Von Wernich to reveal where they were. He probably gave them up fairly easily, and it is possible that the couple had kept in contact with von Wernich's California connection. As far as who killed them, it could have been random violence, or it could have been a hit. At that time, there was CIA involvement in the Dirty War. A particular agent, who is now in the WPP, was, IIRC, involved in a later assassination in Washington D.C. related to the Dirty War.

There would have been much incentive to kill this couple out of fear that they could testify to the torture and murder taking place in Argentina. Many people speculate as to why, if they were war refugees, they did not try to contact their families, or why their families did not try to locate them. This couple's families assumed that they were dead. Although they have registered their DNA in Argentina, it is for the purpose of possibly identifying the child that Maria supposedly carried. The couple would have known how dangerous it would be to contact family, as the war was still ongoing until the mid-80's. Even to this day, many people there are afraid to ask questions, as many of the military officers involved in the torture and killing were never brought to trial, and some are still in office. I made an e-mail inquiry of a contact there, and got an initial response, but as soon as I revealed the true nature of my inquiry, she stopped responding. I feel that some people there are still living in fear.

As to the gun that was found, I can't put much faith in the ballistics. I believe there was initially some confusion as to the caliber of weapon used. I don't see how they could have positively ID'd that particular weapon as the murder weapon, especially in 1976. That seems like a smoke screen. I believe it's possible that the local police suspected a political hit with international ties.

If you compare these photos with the post-mortems, the likenesses are uncanny. The moles on Maria's face closely match those of the female UID. The UID's face is swollen and distorted from the gun shot wounds, so they will not match up completely, but they are really close.

Here are some links for further background. You may have to have them re-translated in Google translate.

http://translate.google.com/transla...a=N&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=ivnso

http://translate.google.com/transla...Vk4&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=ivnso

http://translate.google.com/transla...ch?q=cesar+amadeo+lugones&hl=en&sa=N&start=30

http://translate.google.com/transla...ch?q=cesar+amadeo+lugones&hl=en&sa=N&start=20

http://translate.google.com/transla...ult&prev=/search?q=eugenio+lugones&hl=en&sa=G

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Townley
 
Reannan, thank you for bringing attention again to the possibility that this couple is Argentinian, and perhaps victims of the Dirty War. I do not post often, but this case is the one that has captivated my attention on WS. Some time back, I did a lot of research, leading to a theory of the identities of this couple. Actually, I am not the first reader to suggest the ID's of this couple. They were first brought up in early threads by other posters.

Here are pictures of the disappeared Argentinian couple that I have come to believe are our victims.

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k422/redmeli/MariaVazquezOcampoDeLugones_large.jpg

http://i326.photobucket.com/albums/k422/redmeli/CesarAmadeoLugones_large.jpg

This couple, Maria Vazquez Ocampo De Lugones and Cesar Amadeo Lugones, were kidnapped in May 1976 and presumed taken to the Navy Mechanics School where many of the disappeared were tortured and killed.......
Many people speculate as to why, if they were war refugees, they did not try to contact their families, or why their families did not try to locate them. This couple's families assumed that they were dead. Although they have registered their DNA in Argentina, it is for the purpose of possibly identifying the child that Maria supposedly carried. .....
If you compare these photos with the post-mortems, the likenesses are uncanny. The moles on Maria's face closely match those of the female UID. The UID's face is swollen and distorted from the gun shot wounds, so they will not match up completely, but they are really close.

Here are some links for further background. You may have to have them re-translated in Google translate.

http://translate.google.com/transla...a=N&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=ivnso

http://translate.google.com/transla...Vk4&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=ivnso

http://translate.google.com/transla...ch?q=cesar+amadeo+lugones&hl=en&sa=N&start=30

http://translate.google.com/transla...ch?q=cesar+amadeo+lugones&hl=en&sa=N&start=20

http://translate.google.com/transla...ult&prev=/search?q=eugenio+lugones&hl=en&sa=G

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Townley


Snipped and bolded by me... (SBM and BBM). Thank you Redmeli!!! I remember seeing this potential identity in the past, but it did not hit home as closely as it does now! Information about the Dirty War and internet resources related to the possible 30,000 missing people in Argentina are evolving as we speak. I had made internet contact with a New York contact to a group that was working with the evolving DNA database. The New York contact was going to speak with their contacts and get back with me. I have not heard anything from them, so I am going to initiate contact again. The couple that died on a rural road in the state I call home deserves a name. I would love to see this case resolved and see "The Mystery Couple" given a name. Everyone deserves their name - that is a basic human right.
 
Here is a thumbnail of the picture of the potential identity (Maria Vazquez Ocampo De Lugones and Cesar Amadeo Lugones) and the Mystery Couple.
 

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  • Maria Vazquez Ocampo De Lugones_Cesar Amadeo Lugones vs Mystery Couple.bmp
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Thank you Reannan. I'm so glad you are on top of this. I would love for the families of this couple to have closure. Also, thanks for posting the side-by-sides.
 
I have to step out of lurkdom to say that the resemblance is uncanny, even the shape of Jock's lower lip.
 
I wish we had better pictures of Maria Vazquez Ocampo De Lugones and Cesar Amadeo Lugones - especially Cesar without glasses...
 
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