Manorville Butcher ** ONLY **

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...DpOhwn&sig=AHIEtbRA8Q3SL-w8ymKyc3kLissOSdOZhQ

This link should take you to a quickview pdf chapter about Richard Cottingham aka the torso killer.
there is so much info on this twisted animal. And it mentions why the police in ny didnt make the connection to his murders in nj (because he didnt dismember his nj victims. ) if you have the time and the stomach for it, it is very informative. But I warn you, it is very gruesome.

BKS said:

What is the exact location of where JT was found at Manorville?

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Of interest is the proximity to the earlier Manorville Jane Doe yet completely different in that the earlier dump was well hidden, and JT displayed publicly.

Also, that Halsey Manor Rd is one of the few roads that intersect the LIE but doesn't have a ramp to and from the LIE.

Seaslug44 said:

I would like to start this discussion to expand upon Peter's theory that there is a torso killer on the loose (aka the Manorville Butcher).

Let's keep this discussion limited only to the victims who were found dismembered with their body parts scattered at different locations (such as Jessica Taylor). I feel that if we can cultivate a logical discussion without including any mention of SG, the GB4, the Asian, etc... then we can slueth these crimes with a clear mind.

So just for this thread let us make the assumption that there at least two or more killers on the loose and only focus upon the one killer who murdered Jessica Taylor, Jane Doe #6 & Jane Doe #7. We can almost be positive that Jane Doe #6 and Jessica taylor were both the victims of the same killer because both of them had their torso's found in Manorville and other body parts found at Gilgo. Jane Doe #7's legs were found on the beach at Davis Park and her skull was found at Gilgo. Her torso is still missing. It is my theory that her torso is somewhere in those woods in Manorville yet to be found (this would then link her to the same killer 100%).

Jessica Taylor

Jane Doe #6

Jane Doe #7

So please, no posts debating whether or not you think these three murders are linked to the other Gilgo cases or whether or not they are the work of a single LISK or multiple killers. We have a theory thread elsewhere for those debates (if you don't want to consider the possibility that there is this torso-only killer on the loose and you want to follow Dormer's theory that "serial killers evolve" then just please simply ignore this discussion).

For those of you who want to take a shot at exploring this possibilty, please let's hear what you think.

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JD 7's skull wasn't found in Gilgo tho it was found on Nassau side right?

See to me it looks like Taylor, Rush, JD 6, JD 8, Davis Park, Peaches, Cherries are all one type of killer and the Gilgo 4 another and it's just that damn close proximity overlap that's bothersome.

Samantha Spade said:

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...DpOhwn&sig=AHIEtbRA8Q3SL-w8ymKyc3kLissOSdOZhQ

This link should take you to a quickview pdf chapter about Richard Cottingham aka the torso killer.
there is so much info on this twisted animal. And it mentions why the police in ny didnt make the connection to his murders in nj (because he didnt dismember his nj victims. ) if you have the time and the stomach for it, it is very informative. But I warn you, it is very gruesome.

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Nice article. But Cottingham's main goal was torture, dismembering was only part of a forensic countermeasure in his case.

truthspider said:

Of interest is the proximity to the earlier Manorville Jane Doe yet completely different in that the earlier dump was well hidden, and JT displayed publicly.

Also, that Halsey Manor Rd is one of the few roads that intersect the LIE but doesn't have a ramp to and from the LIE.

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JD6? Not hidden. Parked in a trash bag along a path hunters used daily.

fieldnotes said:

See to me it looks like Taylor, Rush, JD 6, JD 8, Davis Park, Peaches, Cherries are all one type of killer and the Gilgo 4 another and it's just that damn close proximity overlap that's bothersome.

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Signature says so. And it isn't unusual to have more than one in one area, especially with about 12 million people behind the horizon and just 2 effective dumping areas left. Vicinity was never really an argument when it came to distinguishable signatures. Or rather, it was always a good argument to mess things up. See Jill Barcombe.

On the heels of the Luka Magnotta case, and the discussions here on attention seeking SK's, is broadcasting torture and murders over the internet in our future? Luka may be the first to do such a thing, I know on similar gore sites that his video was posted on, they have other killings such as the Mexican cartels decapitating with chainsaws and such.

Is this the future? No more having to stage or taunt police. They can broadcast it on the internet, for their attention they so desperately want. With a much bigger audiance, than they could get in a city or even a country. Because once it goes viral, the entire world has access to it. To me, that is the future of these types of crimes, the internet. what is everyone else's opinion on this?

sean62185 said:

On the heels of the Luka Magnotta case, and the discussions here on attention seeking SK's, is broadcasting torture and murders over the internet in our future? Luka may be the first to do such a thing, I know on similar gore sites that his video was posted on, they have other killings such as the Mexican cartels decapitating with chainsaws and such.

Is this the future? No more having to stage or taunt police. They can broadcast it on the internet, for their attention they so desperately want. With a much bigger audiance, than they could get in a city or even a country. Because once it goes viral, the entire world has access to it. To me, that is the future of these types of crimes, the internet. what is everyone else's opinion on this?

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That's a difficult subject and certainly the answer will not be the same for every type of SK. And it is somewhat an old question, only people didn't dare to ask it. Since Jack the Ripper, the first SK who drove his (or her?) own media campaign, we notice only the loud ones. Self-promoters like for example Zodiac. Thus, it was only a question of time, till this self-promotion would reach also the internet. But what worries me more is, the internet has become hunting ground. Think about this Melchert-Dieffenbach guy, who hung pout in a chat room for mentally disturbed, mostly suicidal, persons. He talked at least three into suicide and at least in one case, he watched via webcam. But his lawyer got him a free ticket because he never laid actually hand on the victims.
On the other hand, there is the danger, that we stare like banned on the internet and the less loud one, classical Angel of Death types or the garden variety strangler go even more unnoticed. So, as I started, it's a difficult question.

Peter Brendt said:

JD6? Not hidden. Parked in a trash bag along a path hunters used daily.

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Please provide a link to back that up. I don't recall seeing that information.

truthspider said:

Please provide a link to back that up. I don't recall seeing that information.

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That'S funny because I did it already on the other thread three times. So sorry, go look in the old posts, I'm too busy to search out the old stuff again because you're in loop mode again.

Peter Brendt said:

That'S funny because I did it already on the other thread three times. So sorry, go look in the old posts, I'm too busy to search out the old stuff again because you're in loop mode again.

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No need to be contentious, I was just hoping for information from MSM that I may have missed.

truthspider said:

Of interest is the proximity to the earlier Manorville Jane Doe yet completely different in that the earlier dump was well hidden, and JT displayed publicly.

Also, that Halsey Manor Rd is one of the few roads that intersect the LIE but doesn't have a ramp to and from the LIE.

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Thank you Truthspider. In looking at the aerial views on 9/19/2010 a few weeks after Amber Costello's disappearance there looks like there is a small trash fire burning in that location in Manorville, at JB's and at one of my POI's home. It's probably just a coincidence but it is odd.

JT may have been displayed because the SK was interrupted? or there was a connection with the earlier Jane Doe and JT was a random victim?

Controlled or even Brush Fires:

Any small fires in Manorville and Oak Beach, as seen in aerial satellite pics or any fire calls for brush fires, around the times of the individual disappearances, might be something to look at...

Burning evidence...suspects clothing, the personal effects of the victims, etc?

THat is what concerns me. Just one faulty assumption (such as whether it was a staging ---intentional placement for a desired reaction, or someother reason-- can snowball and roll us in the wrong direction.

And it is not uncommon for LE to intentionally release misinformation for a legitimate purpose such as to avoid copycats, etc., and I wouldnt put it passed them to ask witnesses to cooperate in their efforts.

It is clear to me, PB, You KNOW A LOT about SKs and surely have extensive research on the many types and subtypes, but all your efforts may be wasted time if you do not have access to the facts.
I am in no way stating this as a hidden dig, but sincerely mean it. I hope someone with some clout can see this and at least interview you privately.

Fyi, a member of my extended family was the prosecutor in the Cottingham case.
Anorher extended family member [same side of the family] was one of Ted Bundy`s defense lawyers ~not too proud of that one. My brother worked with a detective in warrants and this detective turned out to be a serial killer who is now on death row. Those are a few reasons why I am so interested in SKs. That and that these creatures just seems so alien and demonic to me, but many appear too damn normal.

Samantha Spade said:

THat is what concerns me. Just one faulty assumption (such as whether it was a staging ---intentional placement for a desired reaction, or someother reason-- can snowball and roll us in the wrong direction.

And it is not uncommon for LE to intentionally release misinformation for a legitimate purpose such as to avoid copycats, etc., and I wouldnt put it passed them to ask witnesses to cooperate in their efforts.

It is clear to me, PB, You KNOW A LOT about SKs and surely have extensive research on the many types and subtypes, but all your efforts may be wasted time if you do not have access to the facts.
I am in no way stating this as a hidden dig, but sincerely mean it. I hope someone with some clout can see this and at least interview you privately.

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I think we all need to keep in mind that LE is not going to tell anyone who their suspects are especially if they have a POI under surveillance. I would imagine several detectives have their own list of 2-3 possible suspects. So the best we can do is offer up a list of POI and try to connect the dots in ways that we can knowing we don't have much evidence to go on. There are a lot of creepy guys out there, but that doesn't make them serial killers. Unless LE has DNA, an eyewitness, solid evidence or a confession, they are not going to make an arrest on circumstantial evidence or just an SK profile. IMHO

I first asked myself Seaslug's original question when news broke that Shannan may have died of an accident. I realized that all of my previous theories were flawed since I was putting too much weight into Shannan's circumstances and the area of Oak Beach. I looked at the entire case differently, and started with Jessica Taylor and JD#6. From there, I was quickly able to identify a POI based on some logic which I'll share with you now. I've stopped posting in the last 6 months or so because it seems nobody here has any interest or valuable contributions to my theory, and prefers instead to focus on Shannan, conspiracy theories and "old hat".

So here's my take, Seaslug:

1) JT and JD6 were found in a remote area of Manorville and were found in such close proximity to each other that the killer had to have previously frequented the area to re-locate the area 3 years after initially dumping JT.

2) If the above is accepted as being a true statement, then it follows that there are a relatively small number of (reasonable) reasons why someone would have frequented that particular area, including:

a) They live nearby or grew up in the area
b) They are a hunter (since the area is used by hunters and JD6 was found by pheasant hunters)
c) They are a landscaper (since JT was found on a pile of sticks presumably dumped illegally by a landscaper)
d) They are avid 4-wheeler/dirtbike rider (since there are trails in these woods evidenced by ATV barriers and nearby ATV "pits")
e) They are active in nature hiking or outdoor activities (i.e., fishing on the Peconic, hunting, birding)
f) They work nearby
g) They regularly attend events at nearby (within 1 mile) locations (such as the Peconic River Sportsmans Club shooting range where the waterfowl hunting association SSWA.org holds their regular shooting practices)
h) They perform illegal dumping, as the Pine Barrens have had this issue
i) They have (or had) friends or family that live in the area

3) Since it is a fact that human remains from JT and JD#6 were also found in Cedar Beach and Gilgo Beach within 1000-2500 yards of each other, we can posit that the killer was also intimately familiar with the specific area of Ocean Parkway.

4) If #3 above is accepted as being a true statement, then it follows that there are a relatively small number of (reasonable) reasons why someone would have frequented that particular area, including:

a) They live nearby or grew up in Gilgo Beach
b) They use the Cedar Beach or Gilgo Beach facilities (beach access for fishing/swimming, boat ramp, volleyball)
c) They are a hunter (since the area is used by a waterfowl hunting club SSWA.org for an annual Duck Boat Show)
d) They attend (or attended) events at Cedar or Gilgo Beach
e) They have (or had) friends or family that live in the area

In #2 and #4 above, I've tried to limit the (reasonable) reasons why someone would be familiar with those specific areas. If we juxtapose the two lists, we see quite clearly that many of these things can be eliminated (i.e., no ATVs at Cedar Beach, etc.) and can infer that the serial killer:

a) Probably didn't grow up, live near or have friends living in Gilgo Beach (Cedar Beach doesn't have houses) because the population density is so small at Gilgo and therefore likely lives, works or has friends in Manorville
b) Possibly is a waterfowl hunter
c) Possibly is a member of the SSWA.org and was so in or prior to the year 2000
d) Attend (or attended) events at Cedar, Gilgo Beach and Manorville (within 1 mile of where victims found)
e) Possibly is into fishing (since fishing both the Atlantic and Peconic is a possibility), although this is less likely since saltwater and freshwater fishing are completely dissimilar)
f) Possibly is a landscaper
g) Probably lives in Manorville since the larger, more difficult to transport body parts (torso) were deposited there whereas easily transportable, identifiable body parts (teeth, fingerprints) were taken to a remote area.

My take: there's a waterfowl hunter that lives in Manorville (3-5 minutes from the scene) and was active in 2000 in the waterfowl club that operates in Cedar Beach and Halsey Manor Rd. in Manorville. He's the only one I could identify that has the right characteristics, including primarily (a) a landscaping company in Manorville, and (b) the fact that he had a traumatic experience during his youth (involving a female relative that killed for money) that could easily have led to a subconscious hatred of women.

truthspider said:

Of interest is the proximity to the earlier Manorville Jane Doe yet completely different in that the earlier dump was well hidden, and JT displayed publicly.

Also, that Halsey Manor Rd is one of the few roads that intersect the LIE but doesn't have a ramp to and from the LIE.

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I have never seen the pics of where JT was found. That appears to be a very isolated area.. He/They almost seems like they go out of his/their way to place the torso there. You said there is no exit ramp at that particular spot? Someone who isn't a locale or wasn't raised there would have no idea where that place is. If it was a simple dump and go, why not do it in a more convient place? The reason why I say that, is because I have heard people say it was a dump and go. I haven't heard MSM really say it was staged, just that she was dumped there. But if it was a simple dump, why go onto that little area, especially when it is known as an illegal trash dump, and their would be locales going through that area?

What about the area where the rest of their body parts were found, so you have pics of those areas? Is it just as isolated from view, but still was an area frequented by passerbys? Also I read somewhere(maybe this thread) that one victims foot still had nail polished toe nails. Does that indicate he kept the bodies, somewhere hidden? I think it was PB who mentioned they were possibly dumped in the area they were, just to in a way give the finger to LISK? Almost like a dog marks its terratory, like Manorville saying back off?

The areas where the body parts were found, did the police end up searching the area? Only to have them appear there in March? Do i have that correct?

BKS said:

Thank you Truthspider. In looking at the aerial views on 9/19/2010 a few weeks after Amber Costello's disappearance there looks like there is a small trash fire burning in that location in Manorville, at JB's and at one of my POI's home. It's probably just a coincidence but it is odd.

JT may have been displayed because the SK was interrupted? or there was a connection with the earlier Jane Doe and JT was a random victim?

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Unlikely. The body was already dismembered, that took some time and we know, he had enough time to take the head with him, because the head was later found on the beach.