Gilgo Beach 4 Only (GB4)

:+:MrTT:+: · Jul 8, 2012

PreciousDust said:
I've read that story a whole bunch of times, in case it was directed at me (you didn't like my answer that my POI is white, maybe?). I didn't write to spread rumors about anyone, I think that's pretty obvious, but it's no loss to me if I stop posting now. I did already get one idea from something someone said to me here, so it's been a plus for me.

I have deleted the posting.
Please continue.
I meant no disrespect.

Can you tell us anything about the burlap and the job?

PreciousDust · Jul 8, 2012

:+:MrTT:+: said:
Please continue. I meant no disrespect.
Can you tell us anything about the burlap and the job?

No, it's fine, MrTT, I wasn't looking on it as any kind of disrespect, and I agree completely with what LE had to say there about "internet rumors", etc. I just hope that I'm not guilty of that here, as it's not my intention; I was mostly presenting the story of how I've tried to get info to the LE, and to see if there were any recommendations or advice in that regard. And, also, to see if I could pick up anything from reader's comments that would lead me in new directions (as I say, that's already happened here). But you're right, or would be right, if I entertained "20 Questions" type things, where I slowly and unintentionally gave away enough for someone to guess the POI's identity; there's some things I'm comfortable talking about, and others that I'm not. So if you can look at my posts from the viewpoint that I have a suspicion, and that maybe LE is looking into it, and like anyone else's suspicions I could be right but could very well be wrong, and that I'm here to learn as much as anything else, then that would be great. Also, as I said, I'll update developments here, unless I get chased off by mods or something. I can't talk about the burlap, and as for a "job" I'd just say that my POI never appears to have worked for anyone other than himself. My own confidence that I may "have something" springs principally from two or three aspects that I haven't mentioned here, one of which elicited a "holy s**t!" comment from my contact; I mention that because it shows how clueless I can be - I hadn't thought it was really that significant of a thing until the contact's reaction, and then my ex-wife saying "well, yeah" when I explained it to her. So, as I sometimes have to be hit over the head with something before I see it, I know I'm no "websleuth" extraordinaire.

:+:MrTT:+: · Jul 8, 2012

I have been reading about Megan and the other 3...

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/...LQvRjwjjN?utm_medium=rss&utm_content=Brooklyn

A New York City pimp

pleaded guilty yesterday to transporting women from Maine to work as prostitutes — one of whom later became a victim of the Gilgo Beach serial killings.
Akeem Cruz, 22, admitted in Brooklyn federal court that he lured Megan Waterman and an unnamed woman to work as hookers on Long Island in violation of federal sex-trafficking laws.
Waterman’s body was discovered in December 2010 during the Gilgo Beach homicide probe in Suffolk County and her murder is still listed as unsolved.
Cruz is not charged in the Long Island homicide investigation, officials said.

MEGAN WATERMAN
Remains found at beach.

Before her death, Waterman and the other woman communicated with potential clients via Craigslist and met customers in the Hauppauge, LI, area at a local hotel, officials say.
Cruz could face approximately 37 to 46 months in prison.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/..._sex_rap_ZC7yasSmmVfkqLQvRjwjjN#ixzz204B5enKD

nugzter · Jul 8, 2012

PreciousDust said:
No, it's fine, MrTT, I wasn't looking on it as any kind of disrespect, and I agree completely with what LE had to say there about "internet rumors", etc. I just hope that I'm not guilty of that here, as it's not my intention; I was mostly presenting the story of how I've tried to get info to the LE, and to see if there were any recommendations or advice in that regard. And, also, to see if I could pick up anything from reader's comments that would lead me in new directions (as I say, that's already happened here). But you're right, or would be right, if I entertained "20 Questions" type things, where I slowly and unintentionally gave away enough for someone to guess the POI's identity; there's some things I'm comfortable talking about, and others that I'm not. So if you can look at my posts from the viewpoint that I have a suspicion, and that maybe LE is looking into it, and like anyone else's suspicions I could be right but could very well be wrong, and that I'm here to learn as much as anything else, then that would be great. Also, as I said, I'll update developments here, unless I get chased off by mods or something. I can't talk about the burlap, and as for a "job" I'd just say that my POI never appears to have worked for anyone other than himself. My own confidence that I may "have something" springs principally from two or three aspects that I haven't mentioned here, one of which elicited a "holy s**t!" comment from my contact; I mention that because it shows how clueless I can be - I hadn't thought it was really that significant of a thing until the contact's reaction, and then my ex-wife saying "well, yeah" when I explained it to her. So, as I sometimes have to be hit over the head with something before I see it, I know I'm no "websleuth" extraordinaire.

Hello PreciousDust,
Don't expect an answer from LE. If it's SCPD or LAPD, you will never get an answer back. You have to be content with the fact that you are trying to help. And when the day comes that the case is solved, MAYBE LE will give you credit for giving them the right tip. My personel opinon, and the reason why I am a Websleuth is not for persolal recognision. It is because it is intresting, it is a hobby, and I want a tiny bit of justice in this crazy world we live in. That is enough for me.
Don't drive your self crazy. Do your research. If LE has questions, they will contact you in due time. Until then, feel free to give your valued opinion and theorys. Welcome, YOU ARE A WEBSLEUTH.

Redbird · Jul 8, 2012

:+:MrTT:+: said:
I have been reading about Megan and the other 3...

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/...LQvRjwjjN?utm_medium=rss&utm_content=Brooklyn

A New York City pimp

pleaded guilty yesterday to transporting women from Maine to work as prostitutes one of whom later became a victim of the Gilgo Beach serial killings.
Akeem Cruz, 22, admitted in Brooklyn federal court that he lured Megan Waterman and an unnamed woman to work as hookers on Long Island in violation of federal sex-trafficking laws.
Watermans body was discovered in December 2010 during the Gilgo Beach homicide probe in Suffolk County and her murder is still listed as unsolved.
Cruz is not charged in the Long Island homicide investigation, officials said.

MEGAN WATERMAN
Remains found at beach.

Before her death, Waterman and the other woman communicated with potential clients via Craigslist and met customers in the Hauppauge, LI, area at a local hotel, officials say.
Cruz could face approximately 37 to 46 months in prison.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/..._sex_rap_ZC7yasSmmVfkqLQvRjwjjN#ixzz204B5enKD

Note the article shows no indication that Megan was ever taken to New York or Brooklyn or lived anywhere but Maine where she was transported to Long Island. What am I missing?

:+:MrTT:+: · Jul 8, 2012

http://www.tampabay.com/news/public...d-dead-in-new-york-could-be-victim-of/1148049

Last week, authorities identified one of the victims: Megan Waterman from Scarborough, Maine. Two others along with Costello were identified Monday as Maureen Brainard-Barnes of Norwich, Conn., and Melissa Barthelemy of Erie County, N.Y.

One from Maine, One from Conn. One from New york and one from Florida.

What started out as a simply missing persons report. Turned into a methodical and calculating murder after they were discovered wrapped in burlap on a beach.

Jessica Taylor

http://www.newsday.com/news/breaking/bodies-found-at-li-beaches-1.2541830

And I took a peak at the others found. I wont say for sure she is connected to the 4. But just from looking at her photo and being about a mile east from the 4 she may be related even though she was dismembered. I am just staying concentrated on the four in burlap, but just wanted to through this out there now for a future discussion if we end up going that way for one reason or the other.

Redbird · Jul 8, 2012

Peter Brendt said:
Well, technically, since Megan was most of the time in NYC, I think, Bronx too and she and Cruz visited LI only twice a month (as in about all two weeks) to meet with clients, it's more like 62.5% or higher and if you calculate in Amber Lynn Costello lived basically in the middle between the LI scene on those islands and the club scene of Manhattan, it's probably at least 75% chance, the connection is NYC. The point, I don't know yet, is is it Bronx or rather Manhattan, the private club scene. Remember Megan offered femdom, that's an entirely different client profile than for the other three. The only place, they are near to each other appears to me the club area between Hell's Kitchen and 45th or 46th Street. Maureen. But then, I hesitate to send one of our locals to the whip clubs to sleuth around ...

Is there any information or articles you can point me to regarding Megan living in the Bronx and only visiting LI?

:+:MrTT:+: · Jul 8, 2012

Redbird said:
Note the article shows no indication that Megan was ever taken to New York or Brooklyn or lived anywhere but Maine where she was transported to Long Island. What am I missing?

Would like to know the name of that other woman. And if she is still around or is she missing to. Or did he not know her real name what. Would love to know what she knows about Megan and what her plans were for that night. would they a pair or what. I bet 10 dollars she is missing to that is why she was unnamed. he may-have brought it up during interview, he took Megan and another girl, and maybe LEO didn't know about the other one just the one Megan.

Sounds like to me in this one case anyways he delivered a young woman whom became the star of someones snuff film. Unbeknown to him perhaps.
crossing the state lines made it federal. Get a girl from out of state, she comes missing simple missing person report if anyone files. He wasn't going to tell she was missing after dropping her off. It only came to light about his involvement after she was found with the other three.

add on...
Sounds like to me they made the dates in Maine and then he took them to the hotel/motel there on LI. Then the killer met her and took her someplace else. All planned on Craigslist I assume.
I would bet the killer took both girls. He wanted two instead of one. Or he may had been surprise there were two instead of one. And had no choice except to take both to make sure both kept quite.

Anyone know the distance between the hotel/motel they were staying at and where Megan was found?

:+:MrTT:+: · Jul 8, 2012

In short...

You got to release those phone messages the killer made to the sister.
That may have been his only slip up so far.

Once the press made known about the recordings the phone calls stopped!

Why did they stop? They stop because he was concerned someone listening would recognize his voice if they were released to the public to listen to.

You release them with a notice about the release in advance, you may well have over 100,000 persons listening to that voice on TV and the internet. With all those listening there may be one whom think or may even know that voice and will call it in. Whether it may be a family member a coworker a neighbor etc etc etc. Someone may recognize that voice and call it in!

And don't tell us releasing them would hinder the investigation. So far keeping them private has not help the investigation.

It worked in the BTK case. I remember one Saturday watching AMW they released a recording he made from a pay phone back in 1974 to 911 I believe it was, to tell them about a murder or murders he had committed and gave them the address and seven days later on the following Saturday they broke in on the national news to report an arrest has been made in the BTK killings.

Yes I know the official statement was a floppy disk from a church brought him down. That floppy disk was just extra evidence. It was his voice on the payphone from 1974 that brought him down, because he was recognized. And no I don't have a link to prove that.

alaskanblue · Jul 9, 2012

PreciousDust said:
"Lived at" would be a stretch; much more likely that he'd have bought a house there for summer use, or even rented; from my experience, the address search sites will list all sorts of places that a person has had any association with. I was not particularly excited about seeing the Oak Beach address (actually, there's two that come up at one site, and they're both listed as Babylon addresses, though they're actually on Oak Beach); the POI would be familiar with Oak Beach regardless. I believe the Oak Beach addresses could very well stem from a time before the murders; at the same time, though, it would be virtually impossible that my POI wouldn't have been on Oak Beach for one reason or another sometime in the period from the late 90s until his time of death (in fact, in a seemingly non-sinister way, he can logically be placed there at one point). I believe that the POI's main residence was in NYC from the late 90's on (I've given that address, right down to the apartment number, to the police).

PreciousDust-certainly some extremely intriguing info in all of your posts about your POI! Would it be possible to give us a general location of his NYC apartment as in Midtown Manhattan or...? If it's near the Theatre District/Times Square that'd be quite compelling.

PreciousDust · Jul 9, 2012

nugzter said:
Don't drive your self crazy. Do your research. If LE has questions, they will contact you in due time.

Thanks, nugzter, really appreciate your comments.

alaskanblue said:
Would it be possible to give us a general location of his NYC apartment as in Midtown Manhattan or...?

Below 34th St, and on the east side, so not specifically the area where LE says calls were partially traced to. Still, it wouldn't make much sense for the SK to make those calls from their home; I remember reading somewhere that the calls might have been made purposely from areas with a high concentration of people around (Port Authority, Times Square) so that if a trace succeeded LE would still have an almost impossible job figuring out who to collar. One thing about that could work against the SK though, I would think (though I'm sure I could be wrong) - there's always plenty of cameras recording activity in those areas, so LE can potentially look for known suspects in videos of the crowd. I included photos of my POI in the emails I sent to LE, and I think I was bold enough to suggest they might do that very thing (I'm sure they appreciated my helpful hints, haha). By the way, thanks for the comment, alaskanblue.

alaskanblue · Jul 9, 2012

PreciousDust said:
Thanks, nugzter, really appreciate your comments.

Below 34th St, and on the east side, so not specifically the area where LE says calls were partially traced to. Still, it wouldn't make much sense for the SK to make those calls from their home; I remember reading somewhere that the calls might have been made purposely from areas with a high concentration of people around (Port Authority, Times Square) so that if a trace succeeded LE would still have an almost impossible job figuring out who to collar. One thing about that could work against the SK though, I would think (though I'm sure I could be wrong) - there's always plenty of cameras recording activity in those areas, so LE can potentially look for known suspects in videos of the crowd. I included photos of my POI in the emails I sent to LE, and I think I was bold enough to suggest they might do that very thing (I'm sure they appreciated my helpful hints, haha). By the way, thanks for the comment, alaskanblue.

You're welcome! I wasn't expecting his apartment to be anywhere near where the calls were placed from. LISK certainly wouldn't place any of his calls from his home and yes, the crowds at Times Square provided him with plenty of anonymity. So he lived below 34th street on the east side?! Wow...I'm stunned...that's a perfect place for him to reside. Quite a few people here think he lives in NYC. It looks like it's within 2 to 3 miles of Times Square, correct? Within walking distance if need be. It's interesting that you mentioned the investigating of the cam videos, I've been thinking for the past couple of weeks that they've needed to pursue that as well. Granted, without a lead like yours (!) it would've been very tough to sift through all of the people on the videos. Basically it would've had to have been a big gallery of pics for the public to look at. Definately a needle in a haystack type thing. I'm hoping that they had the foresight to keep the footage, they haven't been very digilent on retaining cam video. Former Commissioner Dormer said that they'd been able to pinpoint a location-even if it was a quarter to a half block radius that'd be something at least. With your POI's photos they should be able to make some real progress, I hope that the footage has a high enough resolution for them to be able to enlarge faces with good detail.

Mountain_Kat · Jul 9, 2012

We already have a thread for just the GB4. Is there some reason we've started another one?

PreciousDust · Jul 9, 2012

alaskanblue said:
LISK certainly wouldn't place any of his calls from his home...

Y'know, I guess that should be obvious, though it took me about a week before it occurred to me; at the outset it was almost a disqualifier for me, though people with money don't generally live in midtown (and the POI had money). As I've been following the case for less than a month, I'm bound to come up with some doozy statements (over the last couple of days I've been reading some of the LISK threads here to bring me up to snuff a bit).

alaskanblue said:
It looks like it's within 2 to 3 miles of Times Square, correct? Within walking distance if need be.

A bit less than 2 miles if you choose the "walking" option in Google maps.

alaskanblue said:
Granted, without a lead like yours..

Thanks, but I don't want to say or think that it's necessarily the greatest lead since Lynyrd Skynyrd's "Free Bird"; sometimes I feel that my POI seems so obvious that he's surely been looked at and eliminated as a possibility by LE, other times I feel that there's probably so many people who fit the profile, and that my enthusiasm is some kind of myopia.

Along those lines (that it's just a lead, and I'm not here to make a big deal about it), I'd like to apologize to Mr. Brendt for hijacking his thread!

alaskanblue · Jul 9, 2012

PreciousDust-I'm sure that there are alot of people who fit the profile that they've looked at, however it really sounds like your POI is a fairly strong candidate to be LISK. It's good to be restrained in the enthusiasm department on your lead. I hope that you hear from the Suffolk PD detective sometime soon. As far as researching the case, WS is probably the best place to do so. There is a treasure trove of information here. If you haven't seen the 48 Hours Mystery and the A&E special shows on LISK, they are interesting, though fairly general.

inspctrgadget · Jul 9, 2012

:+:MrTT:+: said:
In short...

You got to release those phone messages the killer made to the sister.
That may have been his only slip up so far.

Once the press made known about the recordings the phone calls stopped!

Why did they stop? They stop because he was concerned someone listening would recognize his voice if they were released to the public to listen to.

You release them with a notice about the release in advance, you may well have over 100,000 persons listening to that voice on TV and the internet. With all those listening there may be one whom think or may even know that voice and will call it in. Whether it may be a family member a coworker a neighbor etc etc etc. Someone may recognize that voice and call it in!

And don't tell us releasing them would hinder the investigation. So far keeping them private has not help the investigation.

It worked in the BTK case. I remember one Saturday watching AMW they released a recording he made from a pay phone back in 1974 to 911 I believe it was, to tell them about a murder or murders he had committed and gave them the address and seven days later on the following Saturday they broke in on the national news to report an arrest has been made in the BTK killings.

Yes I know the official statement was a floppy disk from a church brought him down. That floppy disk was just extra evidence. It was his voice on the payphone from 1974 that brought him down, because he was recognized. And no I don't have a link to prove that.

I think this would help the search for the perp, but would utterly destroy any chance for a conviction. Its not what you know, its what you can prove. If you have a positive voice lineup where MB's sister can positively ID the SK, that's powerful evidence that can be used against the perp. Without any DNA or eyewitnesses, the killer's voice is perhaps the only evidence that we've got. Releasing this would destroy any opportunity for a voice lineup. In this case, we don't have any other evidence like floppy disks, etc. At least not that we're aware of.

Peter Brendt · Jul 9, 2012

Just K said:
If no luck with SCPD...then, if you are really determined for LE to respond to your belief that this guy may be responsible, turn all that you have over to the FBI.

Do you have a direct contact? Or a suggestion? Because the regular tipp hotline of the FBI is even more stuffed than SCPD's.

Peter Brendt · Jul 9, 2012

PreciousDust said:
I don't know, and though I know people who knew him (and, actually, a good friend of mine knows those people much better than I), I can't exactly start asking them questions like that. There is a connection there, though, not with pickups or SUVs precisely.

That referred to the car question. This unsub would drive an American made pickup or SUV, more likely a pickup because the timeline originally indicating some work in landscaping and/or construction.

PreciousDust said:
Can you explain that, I'm really not as familiar with the nature of those calls as I should be. I asked my contact if those calls had been recorded and, if so, if they're being played to people who knew whatever suspects the police were coming up with, and he guessed they were.

He made a number of phone calls to Melissa Barthelmy's sister and her bf/pimp, made some stories up what he did sexually to her sister and so on. But the recurring line appears to be always this thing about where her lifestyle had brought Melissa and where Amanda's lifestyle would bring her. That's a thinking pattern that is often (but not exclusively) ingrained with some kind of at least half religious upbringing. And get me right here, religious includes Christian, but also Muslim or Jewish. Those religions all share this sometimes overly pious disgust for prostitutes. The other thing they share is the use of burlap and hair shirts as a tool for penance and punishment for vanity.

Peter Brendt · Jul 9, 2012

sean62185 said:
I am interested in the foot note. Does that mean the killer is short or maybe even an ectomorph? Needing to find small women because they would be easier to over power? Also how would the height of the women effect the motive of the killer? Also, I remember before, you thought the killer was black basically because the victims were so different, other than being white, the appear to have nothing in common.. except they were escorts, white and apparently short women. Does the height effect that theory? Do you still believe he is black?

Sean, I can't be 100% certain at this point. There is still some variety in height. Now, smaller victims means at first, lighter bodies. He wouldn't need so long arms and that much strength to lift them for example from a truck bed and carry them into those brushes. This reduces his minimum height by a little. On the other hand, normally the small men go easier for the tall girls while the tall men often like the smaller girls. Or as my granddad, himself 6'2" worded it: "Take the small ones, those you can take under the arm and carry away in case of danger" (I admit, it loses in translation).
Another aspect is, a victimology that wide but in ethnicity consistent and without any other thing in common, indicates an underlying racial motive. I've listed reference cases several times. However, with the appearance of another trait, they have in common, it can be, but it doesn't have to, that this is part of the selection scheme, or part of it as one of several factors. I mean, it can't be too hard to find petite prostitutes of other ethnicities in NYC? So the subject is not off the table, but the door for other options is open.

Peter Brendt · Jul 9, 2012

Redbird said:
Note the article shows no indication that Megan was ever taken to New York or Brooklyn or lived anywhere but Maine where she was transported to Long Island. What am I missing?

When Cruz was interviewed, he said, that MW lived in his place in the Bronx. Also mentioned in several articles and in 48 Hours, they visited LI about twice a months for "serving" the LI customers.

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